Tebow to Jacksonville?

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

This is a lame duck argument. Every offense in the league is different because it's designed to take advantage of the strengths of the players. Did Shanny change the offense for RGIII compared to his QBs last year, of course.

The question is not whether Tebow can run can run the exact same offense as Tom Brady. The question is; can an offense designed around Tebow prove effective in this league.

why should tebow be treated differently i am all in favor of tossing tebow out there and letting him sink or swim for the jets last few games since he was supposed to be second sting . i do agree he got screwed by the jets but
didn't elway have to compete for a job in training camp marino ? kelly ? again why treat tebow so special the other QBs have to compete in training camp so to Tebow i like the guy but it makes sense why cant Tebow play in a conventional offense like OTHER qbs

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

but Tebow has to be versitile he has to maybe at times run the ball him self other times throw a short pass another time a long bomb and fake a hand off to the running back . why cant he compete in training camp what sort of offense can tebow run? give me a list of em then send it to the other nfl coaches

[Jay3]

Originally Posted by DAN_BRONCO_FAN

i was reading on the denver post when i saw this comment this guy has got it exactly right why didnt anyone here think like this

1 points

(3 votes)

Re: Article Discussion: Broncos Mailbag: Not too soon to scout B

by pianoman_70 on December 26th, 2012, 4:23 pm #2804652
I keep hearing this: "Tim Tebow is better than Blaine Gabbert/Chad Henne/Mark Sanchez/Jake Locker" et al by those who attempt to support him.

How on earth can one make such an assessment when the aforementioned QB's are asked to run PRO-STYLE offenses while Tebow runs the spread-option How in the world can you make an apples-to-apples comparison between the QB's when this is the case? If Tebow were asked to run the exact same offense Kyle Orton was asked to run last year, would Tebow not have become the turnover-machine Sanchez has become? Heck, if Tebow had begun the season running that high school offense we ran last year, would we have made the playoffs? Would Tebow have even survived the season?

What i'd like to see is Tebow (after being cut by the Jets) walk onto an NFL training camp and compete for a starting QB job while doing the EXACT SAME THINGS the other QB's on the roster are asked to do. Let him run the EXACT SAME OFFENSE the other QB's are asked to run. And if he EARNS the starting nod, so be it. If he truly is better than the Gabberts/Henne's/Sanchez's of the league, then surely he (in what would be his "4th rookie year") would be able to do what the aforementioned do. . .& add his special blend of "intangibles" to put him over the top. Let him PROVE he can read defenses, determine who will be open, & deliver the ball on time & on target just like every other QB in the league is asked to do. He can mix in some spread option, but how about letting him prove that standard QB play has become his bread & butter? Until then, he will remain several notches beneath the aforementioned QB's, & won't get to play much; if at all.


SO TRUE !!!!!

But that's essentially what has happened with Tebow up until now. There has never been a training camp where "the offense" was one designed for him, and other quarterbacks were asked to run it. ( "Kyle, the next play will be a QB dive!").

He's working on his mechanics, his drops, his timing, his throwing style, his ability to hit timed progressions (based on steps). That's essentially what he's been running in every camp he's been in. And the results have been that he hasn't looked all that good.

But when you consider things like his mobility, his complete lack of fear at being hit, and his arm strength, he has displayed a promising level of NFL talent that translates well into actual clutch gamer-ness.

I just don't go for the "audition theory" of practice -- most quarterbacks get some sort of commitment early on to get some serious reps. Tebow may not have justified that commitment (there has to be something the coach is acting on), but it should be no surprise that he progresses slowly when he's not getting them.

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by Jay3

But that's essentially what has happened with Tebow up until now. There has never been a training camp where "the offense" was one designed for him, and other quarterbacks were asked to run it. ( "Kyle, the next play will be a QB dive!").

He's working on his mechanics, his drops, his timing, his throwing style, his ability to hit timed progressions (based on steps). That's essentially what he's been running in every camp he's been in. And the results have been that he hasn't looked all that good.

But when you consider things like his mobility, his complete lack of fear at being hit, and his arm strength, he has displayed a promising level of NFL talent that translates well into actual clutch gamer-ness.

I just don't go for the "audition theory" of practice -- most quarterbacks get some sort of commitment early on to get some serious reps. Tebow may not have justified that commitment (there has to be something the coach is acting on), but it should be no surprise that he progresses slowly when he's not getting them.

Still trying to figure out what it is about tebow that people think there needs to be a differant set of rules for him.
Mobility,arm strength, & lack of fear of getting hit!!?? All that means nothing when you can't throw the football.HCs are acting on the fact tebow can't throw the ball,tebow has been through enough training camps. Tebow has reached his ceiling.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by peacepipe

Still trying to figure out what it is about tebow that people think there needs to be a differant set of rules for him.
Mobility,arm strength, & lack of fear of getting hit!!?? All that means nothing when you can't throw the football.HCs are acting on the fact tebow can't throw the ball,tebow has been through enough training camps. Tebow has reached his ceiling.

Which coaches are your talking about those that did not choose this kid and IMO a just going through the motions and then not going the straight yard.

If someone is motivated about really teaching him the correct throwing motions and staying on him coaching every time it reverts to college motions.

Every coach save Josh has had him foisted on him by owners. Or inherited him John. Therefore no incentive to make him better.

This time around he will be able to go to a team that wants him. To a coach that will actually teach him.

If that does not work then we know for sure

[peacepipe]

As of right now the jags seem to be only team, reportedly,that has any interest in him. Now it is being reported that GM Gene Smith will be let go at seasons end. So far the coaching staff is staying put. A coaching staff that didn't want tebow last year,and It's looking more & more likely Rex Ryan didn't want tebow either. Any team that signs Tebow will be because the owner wants him,he'll likely never get a coach that will fully dedicate himself to Tebow. The jags will be his last chance in the NFL.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by peacepipe

As of right now the jags seem to be only team, reportedly,that has any interest in him. Now it is being reported that GM Gene Smith will be let go at seasons end. So far the coaching staff is staying put. A coaching staff that didn't want tebow last year,and It's looking more & more likely Rex Ryan didn't want tebow either. Any team that signs Tebow will be because the owner wants him,he'll likely never get a coach that will fully dedicate himself to Tebow. The jags will be his last chance in the NFL.

If the owner wants him and the GM is gone there is an even chance the the coaching staff will work with him and give it the old college try if for no other reason than to palacate the NEW owner, keep him in the loop and show the owner he "is or is not" a QB. Just as I believed that Josh would have brought him along slowly I think the new coaching staff will do the same thing..

I also suspect any GM hired by the owner will be someone that keeps pressure on the coaching staff to do right by Tebow

Again if he does not make it as a QB it will not be because he was not given a fair shake at it.

Fatso had Tebow forced on him and the circus that surrounded it. While the new guy in JAX will have the same thing the pressure to win NOW will not be there as the fans will be there one way or the other.

That said malarkey better update his resume. Unless he can figure out an offense to help him transition from option all the time to a more pro style O. It will not be a fast transition. Years of instinct will have to be overcome to make him more comfortable. In the rolling pocket.

[peacepipe]

You post this as if Tebow is owed something,isn't owed a thing. A owner may be able to force the signing of a player but he not going to be force playing time.
Also he's going still have to compete for the starting spot in a pro-style offense. Tebow hasn't faired well in those situations.
GMs are hired to do what's right for the team not one player.
Again why should Tebow get special treatment.

[errand]

Originally Posted by Jay3

But that's essentially what has happened with Tebow up until now. There has never been a training camp where "the offense" was one designed for him, and other quarterbacks were asked to run it. ( "Kyle, the next play will be a QB dive!").


so ****ing what?

Every QB that plays for a new coach has to run the offense the coach wants him to. If Tebow wants to run the only offense he can run, then he needs to go to Ohio State.

When McDaniels took over the Broncos he wanted a QB that had run his offense before, so he tried to acquire Cassell. That fell through, so he shipped Cutler and got a guy (Orton) he figured could run it well enough until his guy could be drafted or signed. He drafted Tebow in the belief that he could run his offense.

He's working on his mechanics, his drops, his timing, his throwing style, his ability to hit timed progressions (based on steps). That's essentially what he's been running in every camp he's been in. And the results have been that he hasn't looked all that good.

OK, so if he's been working on that in every training camp, and still looks atrocious as a passer, what the hell does that tell you? He's the square peg that will never fit into the round hole

But when you consider things like his mobility, his complete lack of fear at being hit, and his arm strength, he has displayed a promising level of NFL talent that translates well into actual clutch gamer-ness.

The bus stations are filled with agile guys who can throw hard and aren't afraid of getting hit....he's reached his terminal position in the NFL and had his 15 minutes of Don Majkowski fame.

I just don't go for the "audition theory" of practice -- most quarterbacks get some sort of commitment early on to get some serious reps. Tebow may not have justified that commitment (there has to be something the coach is acting on), but it should be no surprise that he progresses slowly when he's not getting them.

So to summarize, you think a HC should install a Tim Tebow offense vs. having Tebow run his offense, that his lack of fear in getting hit supersedes his lack of passing prowess, and he should be given a commitment (more than likely unjustified as you said) as starter despite all of his problems and slow progress, but you have no idea what the coach is acting on. Wow...un****ingbelievable

in bold

[Jay3]

Originally Posted by peacepipe

Still trying to figure out what it is about tebow that people think there needs to be a differant set of rules for him.
Mobility,arm strength, & lack of fear of getting hit!!?? All that means nothing when you can't throw the football.HCs are acting on the fact tebow can't throw the ball,tebow has been through enough training camps. Tebow has reached his ceiling.

I don't --- I was responding to a post that suggested "for a change," Tebow be asked to run a traditional offense alongside other QB's. Just pointing out that's about ALL he's ever done in camp.

[Jay3]

errand, this is going in a circle -- I was responding to the implication that, up until now, Tebow has done camp competition based on something other than the conventional offense.

I think I clearly explained that a head coach has to feel it's justified to make a move to a quarterback -- I'm sure every QB would like to be "comitted" to.

I don't see where you get the energy to repeatedly rehash and re-engage the age old argument. You don't even seem to be able to spot a relatively balanced post -- one that seems to acknowledge that coaches obviously need to see something in order to design an offense around a QB. I'm just pointing out it actually hasn't happened in camp for Tebow yet. It seems to be a simple fact that doesn't even warrant debate -- and is certainly not a great launching pad for the 1,000 rehash.

[DBroncos4life]

Chad Henne will be the best QB on the Jags regardless if they add Tebow.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by peacepipe

Still trying to figure out what it is about tebow that people think there needs to be a differant set of rules for him.

If you're curious about a different set of rules, ask why there are myriad other QBs in the league with a worse winning PCT as a starter who are still considered legitimate starters.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

If you're curious about a different set of rules, ask why there are myriad other QBs in the league with a worse winning PCT as a starter who are still considered legitimate starters.

This **** again.

[errand]

Originally Posted by Jay3

errand, this is going in a circle -- I was responding to the implication that, up until now, Tebow has done camp competition based on something other than the conventional offense.

I think I clearly explained that a head coach has to feel it's justified to make a move to a quarterback -- I'm sure every QB would like to be "comitted" to.

I don't see where you get the energy to repeatedly rehash and re-engage the age old argument. You don't even seem to be able to spot a relatively balanced post -- one that seems to acknowledge that coaches obviously need to see something in order to design an offense around a QB. I'm just pointing out it actually hasn't happened in camp for Tebow yet. It seems to be a simple fact that doesn't even warrant debate -- and is certainly not a great launching pad for the 1,000 rehash.

Every thread about Tebow is a rehashing of the debate.....and until he succeeds in the NFL as a QB, or is no longer on an NFL team, this debate will continue to rage.

Mainly because we still have people on here that think we never should have drafted him, and others who think that we never should have let him go...keep in mind I'm of neither camp.

I had no problem with the Broncos drafting him but also had no problem with them getting rid of him. As for the energy I have....not sure what that means since you post just as much as anyone else does about the guy.

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

If you're curious about a different set of rules, ask why there are myriad other QBs in the league with a worse winning PCT as a starter who are still considered legitimate starters.

Is it written somewhere that life has to be fair if your name is Tim Tebow.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

If you're curious about a different set of rules, ask why there are myriad other QBs in the league with a worse winning PCT as a starter who are still considered legitimate starters.

Hello Vince Young? Tebow is 8-6 and you're using that win percentage as an arguement?

[errand]

Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic

Hello Vince Young? Tebow is 8-6 and you're using that win percentage as an arguement?

I know right? I recall those supporting Orton's W-L pct. as a starter being laughed at by the nuthugging legion of Tebowites (even before he lost 10 of 13 in 2010) as no indicator of his ability to be a good NFL QB....but now it's the leading reason why Tebow should be given a starter's gig.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by errand

I know right? I recall those supporting Orton's W-L pct. as a starter being laughed at by the nuthugging legion of Tebowites (even before he lost 10 of 13 in 2010) as no indicator of his ability to be a good NFL QB....but now it's the leading reason why Tebow should be given a starter's gig.

Boooom. The sound of a reality grenade dropping on this thread.

[Butterscotch Stallion]

Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic

Hello Vince Young? Tebow is 8-6 and you're using that win percentage as an arguement?

Wins don't matter when judging a qb. Good point.

[Butterscotch Stallion]

Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic

Hello Vince Young? Tebow is 8-6 and you're using that win percentage as an arguement?

Taking over a 1-4 team and going 8-4.... Tebow being the only variable in the equation? Yeah it matters.


How did you do in science class by the way? Do you know what a variable is?

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by Butterscotch Stallion

Taking over a 1-4 team and going 8-4.... Tebow being the only variable in the equation? Yeah it matters.


How did you do in science class by the way? Do you know what a variable is?

It matters very little when you include defense/St into the equation. You act as if Tebow was the only player out there on the field.

[Butterscotch Stallion]

Originally Posted by peacepipe

It matters very little when you include defense/St into the equation. You act as if Tebow was the only player out there on the field.

The same d and st that was 1-4? You realize you make my whole argument, right? What changed on the 1-4 team?

I couldn't ask for a more clear argument actually. That's why I always win. I never side with the wrong argument. Also, I am not retarded.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by Butterscotch Stallion

Taking over a 1-4 team and going 8-4.... Tebow being the only variable in the equation? Yeah it matters.


How did you do in science class by the way? Do you know what a variable is?

You are pathetic when you think the defense had nothing to do with it. Giving up points of 15 10 13 13 10??

And none of what you just said matters when he was comparing a win percentage to other QBs who have played longer. Win percantage over a 14 game period or 30 game period?

Why are you even posting on a broncos board. You're not a fan

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by Butterscotch Stallion

The same d and st that was 1-4? You realize you make my whole argument, right? What changed on the 1-4 team?

I couldn't ask for a more clear argument actually. That's why I always win. I never side with the wrong argument. Also, I am not retarded.

The defense got better as the season went along,something tebow didn't do.