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Old 12-27-2012, 01:00 PM   #176
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Everything depends on how the front office views players and contracts going into next season. If they like Beadles progress and Walton's prior to the injury, then OG/C falls down the list of needs.

You guys are talking about safeties, yet I view a pick on Elam in the first as unnecessary. Especially when I named some quality SS talent who have better potential, and can be had later in the draft..

You like Hunt, while DE is not a need on our team maybe they take him and kick Wolfe inside.. We should be so lucky to not have major holes and cap issues like other teams..
If there are better SS then by all means go that way. I would rather draft Austin anyways! Wolfe is a DT, I'm sure if Denver had a option they liked better at his DE spot he would be playing inside more. I think we a very lucky right now!
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:50 PM   #177
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If there are better SS then by all means go that way. I would rather draft Austin anyways! Wolfe is a DT, I'm sure if Denver had a option they liked better at his DE spot he would be playing inside more. I think we a very lucky right now!
There's another interesting thought..
Prior to the start of the season they were high on Hunter, then you have Malik Jackson, Ayers, and Beal who can all play DE.. The big question is do any of them pose an upgrade at SDE? Maybe from pash rush, but what about setting the edge and run support?

I have to admit, the more I think about it, I think there are better DT prospects who would cause havoc the way we run our scheme.
Short and Brandon Williams are my two favorite, and we should take them both if available and draft to the drafts strengths. Cincy has a great DT rotation which has the best DT in football (Geno Adkins) yet they still drafted Devon Still and Brandon Thompson.. We should do that this year and really bolster the talent and depth on the line, that's how teams get better.

If you take Hunt to play SDE, Wolfe needs to add some size to play inside.. And we still need a dominant NT. Which brings us to the issue of our DTs. I like Vickerson, but he is a nice rotational player. Unrein is not anything special, Bannan is not a long term answer, the verdict is out on Silga, and Warren is gone. So even if you have Wolfe as a starter, and Vickerson in the rotation, I think you still add two in the draft and take what the draft is strong in..

Ideally I would trade down and add picks..
I would focus on impact players in FA ready to contribute.. MLB may be better than we think with some cuts and moves this offseason, and a WR who can contribute right away. You know I like Larry Grant and Collie..

And if we could land Kawann Short DT, Margus Hunt SDE, and Brandon Williams DT, in the first three rounds, we would have a dominate young DLine to sit back and watch!
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:10 PM   #178
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There's another interesting thought..
Prior to the start of the season they were high on Hunter, then you have Malik Jackson, Ayers, and Beal who can all play DE.. The big question is do any of them pose an upgrade at SDE? Maybe from pash rush, but what about setting the edge and run support?

I have to admit, the more I think about it, I think there are better DT prospects who would cause havoc the way we run our scheme.
Short and Brandon Williams are my two favorite, and we should take them both if available and draft to the drafts strengths. Cincy has a great DT rotation which has the best DT in football (Geno Adkins) yet they still drafted Devon Still and Brandon Thompson.. We should do that this year and really bolster the talent and depth on the line, that's how teams get better.

If you take Hunt to play SDE, Wolfe needs to add some size to play inside.. And we still need a dominant NT. Which brings us to the issue of our DTs. I like Vickerson, but he is a nice rotational player. Unrein is not anything special, Bannan is not a long term answer, the verdict is out on Silga, and Warren is gone. So even if you have Wolfe as a starter, and Vickerson in the rotation, I think you still add two in the draft and take what the draft is strong in..

Ideally I would trade down and add picks..
I would focus on impact players in FA ready to contribute.. MLB may be better than we think with some cuts and moves this offseason, and a WR who can contribute right away. You know I like Larry Grant and Collie..

And if we could land Kawann Short DT, Margus Hunt SDE, and Brandon Williams DT, in the first three rounds, we would have a dominate young DLine to sit back and watch!
No way do we need two DT's nor do I even think about how bad that would be to have that many young guys on the front 4 playing at once plus what does Wolfe or Doom do in that line up? Also how often do rookie DT's dominate? We are much better off getting a FA DT and let Wolfe develop. A DL with Hunt, Wolfe,Terrance Knighton, and Doom is still plenty of young and good enough. I guess you just really hate Wolfe for some reason.

Doom, Hunt, Ayers, Jackson, and Hunter at DE's with Bannan, Knighton, Vickerson, Wolfe, Unrien and another player would be just fine with me at the DL positions.

There is no reason for Denver to draft 3 players on the DL period. That would be wasting picks that we can be using to get Manning weapons on O as well as rounding out our roster.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:29 PM   #179
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No way do we need two DT's nor do I even think about how bad that would be to have that many young guys on the front 4 playing at once plus what does Wolfe or Doom do in that line up? Also how often do rookie DT's dominate? We are much better off getting a FA DT and let Wolfe develop. A DL with Hunt, Wolfe,Terrance Knighton, and Doom is still plenty of young and good enough. I guess you just really hate Wolfe for some reason.

Doom, Hunt, Ayers, Jackson, and Hunter at DE's with Bannan, Knighton, Vickerson, Wolfe, Unrien and another player would be just fine with me at the DL positions.

There is no reason for Denver to draft 3 players on the DL period. That would be wasting picks that we can be using to get Manning weapons on O as well as rounding out our roster.
You have it all wrong bro. You know I have been asking to upgrade a veteran DT, I'm on record here asking for Knighton before you or anybody. I'm not advocating starting rookies, I'm advocating drafting two very very talented DTs to improve the depth and future at the position.

If Wolfe kicks inside I would hope a veteran FA would start next to him, Knighton or Dorsey would work well. Vickerson could even work.. Short and Williams have way more upside than Unrein, Bannan, and Silga.

But if Wolfe stays at DE, there needs to be better interior pass rush, which is why I'm advocating two who are great with pushing the pocket, can stop the run, and are versatile in different formations. If Wolfe plays inside he needs to add size, I see no problem with saying that, it doesn't mean I hate him..

I would rather see a rotation at DT of youth then drafting skill positions to help Peyton. How would rookie WRs help Peyton more than a veteran..? On offense is where we spend FA money and on any holes (MLB). The draft is where we build the team.. You build a team inside out, and our interior on both sides needs improvement.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:46 PM   #180
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You have it all wrong bro. You know I have been asking to upgrade a veteran DT, I'm on record here asking for Knighton before you or anybody. I'm not advocating starting rookies, I'm advocating drafting two very very talented DTs to improve the depth and future at the position.

If Wolfe kicks inside I would hope a veteran FA would start next to him, Knighton or Dorsey would work well. Vickerson could even work.. Short and Williams have way more upside than Unrein, Bannan, and Silga.

But if Wolfe stays at DE, there needs to be better interior pass rush, which is why I'm advocating two who are great with pushing the pocket, can stop the run, and are versatile in different formations. If Wolfe plays inside he needs to add size, I see no problem with saying that, it doesn't mean I hate him..

I would rather see a rotation at DT of youth then drafting skill positions to help Peyton. How would rookie WRs help Peyton more than a veteran..? On offense is where we spend FA money and on any holes (MLB). The draft is where we build the team.. You build a team inside out, and our interior on both sides needs improvement.
Look at both our lines, almost all of them we got via draft. Outside of Koppen everyone of them was drafted along the OL. I'm all aboard adding another guy later for better depth. Our D is number one in sacks and we are giving up just 3.6 yards per rushing attempt. That is third in the NFL. You want to blow the DL up because you don't think much of the depth we have. I don't get that at all. I'm all for adding a vet DT and a rookie DE or DT to the mix, but I want the unit kept together. What we are doing is working. Just because those other guys have more upside doesn't mean they are better.

You don't see the possibilities of what this O could be like with Austin in it like I do. A guy like him could allow us to go at a much faster paced no huddle because he can play RB as well as WR. He is a match up nightmare with the other WR's that we have now. He would only help Thomas by opening up things underneath.

We agree that we need a MLB and that isn't coming from the draft at all.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:11 PM   #181
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Look at both our lines, almost all of them we got via draft. Outside of Koppen everyone of them was drafted along the OL. I'm all aboard adding another guy later for better depth. Our D is number one in sacks and we are giving up just 3.6 yards per rushing attempt. That is third in the NFL. You want to blow the DL up because you don't think much of the depth we have. I don't get that at all. I'm all for adding a vet DT and a rookie DE or DT to the mix, but I want the unit kept together. What we are doing is working. Just because those other guys have more upside doesn't mean they are better.

You don't see the possibilities of what this O could be like with Austin in it like I do. A guy like him could allow us to go at a much faster paced no huddle because he can play RB as well as WR. He is a match up nightmare with the other WR's that we have now. He would only help Thomas by opening up things underneath.

We agree that we need a MLB and that isn't coming from the draft at all.
If we draft Hunt like you suggested, then you are moving around the DLine which you are claiming continuity is important. Your adding a new DT in Knighton, so you are making changes to the DLine as well.

I'm all for adding another dimension or wrinkle to the offense, I'm not for moving up for him in the draft.. Besides I have seen what Collie is capable of with Manning to know it would greatly improve the offense.

I don't think there's a day one impact three down LBer, but there are options in the draft who could develop.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:15 PM   #182
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Donnie Avery, Brian Hartline, Jerome Simpson and maybe Devery Henderson lead a short list of FA WR's that I would prefer over a broken Collie. Slim picking for cheap FA WR's and we need some more then DT's at this point.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:21 PM   #183
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If we draft Hunt like you suggested, then you are moving around the DLine which you are claiming continuity is important. Your adding a new DT in Knighton, so you are making changes to the DLine as well.

I'm all for adding another dimension or wrinkle to the offense, I'm not for moving up for him in the draft.. Besides I have seen what Collie is capable of with Manning to know it would greatly improve the offense.

I don't think there's a day one impact three down LBer, but there are options in the draft who could develop.
Frankly I could live with just Hunt and moving Wolfe back to his natural position and just resigning the guys we have now. I'm not claiming anything about continuity I'm claiming that adding three new members to the front four via draft is down right dumb.

When did I say move up in the draft to get anyone? And Collie is done man all but done man. Also look at our WR core after Decker and Thomas. There isn't anyone. Stokley is a FA. Willis sucks and he is a FA. Holliday isn't a WR, and Caldwell is a name on the roster only.

Also I suggested SS because Cater might never recover and Adams is getting up in age.

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Old 12-27-2012, 03:56 PM   #184
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Frankly I could live with just Hunt and moving Wolfe back to his natural position and just resigning the guys we have now. I'm not claiming anything about continuity I'm claiming that adding three new members to the front four via draft is down right dumb.

When did I say move up in the draft to get anyone? And Collie is done man all but done man. Also look at our WR core after Decker and Thomas. There isn't anyone. Stokley is a FA. Willis sucks and he is a FA. Holliday isn't a WR, and Caldwell is a name on the roster only.

Also I suggested SS because Cater might never recover and Adams is getting up in age.
When I said an ideal haul would be Short, Hunt, Williams.. That doesn't mean they all start. In fact Wolfe would split snaps with Hunt initially as well as move to a permanent role inside. Short could start day one he is that good. Williams is also incredibly talented, he has the schools all time sack record and he plays DT!

We need more push inside. The two prospects I suggested would give us that and allow Wolfe to stay outside. And Hunt could be used situationally. Having them all would give us great depth and a plathora of options, it would solidify the line for the next 10 years.. We probably won't take 2 DTs and a DE, but my suggestion is to draft what the draft offers the best of!

Collie would come incredibly cheap, I agree outside of the top 2 we are weak. Collie would bolster the depth and offer a very talented option when healthy! He could be used in a Stokely role, to limit exposure to concussions. If Jahvid Best were a FA I promise you someone smart would take a chance on him, the upside with Collie is similar! We take a chance and can easily say good bye if he gets hurt again!

I agree we don't know about Carters health, and another SS option would be solid, but we need to think big and physical. Someone who can match up physically with a TE and really lay the wood in WRs and RBs. We need our version of Cam Chancellor, that's why I suggested Cooper Taylor and Kenny Tate. Plus they only cost a middle to late round pick. Elam is not worth a first round pick, and with his size and attributes, he fits in as a FS in our scheme.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:24 PM   #185
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The combine will most likely push Hunt well beyond Denver's reach.

I still like Richardson, who will also most likely be gone.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:02 AM   #186
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Frankly I could live with just Hunt and moving Wolfe back to his natural position and just resigning the guys we have now. I'm not claiming anything about continuity I'm claiming that adding three new members to the front four via draft is down right dumb.

When did I say move up in the draft to get anyone? And Collie is done man all but done man. Also look at our WR core after Decker and Thomas. There isn't anyone. Stokley is a FA. Willis sucks and he is a FA. Holliday isn't a WR, and Caldwell is a name on the roster only.

Also I suggested SS because Cater might never recover and Adams is getting up in age.
saying someone may never recover after the years AP and jamaal charles just had is DUMBSKI
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:37 AM   #187
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The combine will most likely push Hunt well beyond Denver's reach.

I still like Richardson, who will also most likely be gone.
If you like Richardson's game you'll dig Kawann Short. Richardson reminds me alot of Fletcher Cox. A talented gap shooter and penetrator.. But Short reminds me of a Kevin Williams. A penetrator and disrupter, but stout against the run.

If we miss out on Short too, Brandon Williams in my opinion has the next best upside and is incredibly talented. He has the school sack record and has that great combination of speed and size!
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:24 AM   #188
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I am for Denver drafting another WR, but not until the third or fourth round. Austin has sick game, but we don't need to burn another top end pick on receiver. Demaryius and Decker will get their $ if we are smart, so why add another big contract (although smaller because of slot allocation) to the mix when we do have needs in other areas? There are exceptions. . . if Wheaton was there in the second, I would highly consider him. I think he is going to be one of the better WR to come out this year.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:24 AM   #189
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saying someone may never recover after the years AP and jamaal charles just had is DUMBSKI
you do know they guy has had many concussions right?
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:48 AM   #190
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you do know they guy has had many concussions right?
He was talking about Carter..
Stop Collie hating bro! How could you not want the kid? He will be very affordable and have no guarantees in the contract.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:55 AM   #191
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He was talking about Carter..
Stop Collie hating bro! How could you not want the kid? He will be very affordable and have no guarantees in the contract.
Carter had different knee surgery then both AP and Charles so the point still remains.

It's not hating it's facing facts. How much more beating does the guy have left in him? He would bring way more to the table then Caldwell or Willis I will give you that. I just don't see the guy staying healthy enough to even counting on so we will need another WR yet again.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:51 PM   #192
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Carter had different knee surgery then both AP and Charles so the point still remains.

It's not hating it's facing facts. How much more beating does the guy have left in him? He would bring way more to the table then Caldwell or Willis I will give you that. I just don't see the guy staying healthy enough to even counting on so we will need another WR yet again.
Well many athletes recovery from that surgery, and I'm fine with drafting a SS..but not Elam..
We can draft a middle round WR, I agree we need to upgrade the overall quality of the depth. But a round 1 pick for a slot guy..?
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:05 PM   #193
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I still think we're drafting Kevin Minter in Round 1, a 3 down MLB from LSU.

With the scheme we run, we won't be looking for penetration DTs. Guys like Sheldon Richardson, Margus Hunt, and Bennie Logan are not what we want. Their role in our defense is filled by Wolfe and Jackson. And since we only want read and react cloggers that play less than half the snaps each, I can't imagine we take a DT early this draft.

Likewise, with our scheme, the DE position is full. Ayers, Dumervil, Wolfe, and Jackson. No room for another active DE. I don't see us going D-line at all within the top three rounds, if at all.

At WR, I can't imagine we'd look for a niche player like Tavon Austin and tinker with Manning's offense to scheme him the ball. Don't see it. Manning will want a traditional slot based offense. Stedman Bailey is far more likely to be drafted by us than Austin.

I see a massive need at SS. Adams is average and entering the last year of his deal. Carter has never proven anything. Leonhard and Bruton are FAs.


Right now, I would guess the early draft would look like:

1. MLB Kevin Minter, LSU
2. SS Tony Jefferson, Oklahoma
3. WR Kenny Stills, Oklahoma


with DT, OG, and more secondary/WR depth rounding it out.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:09 PM   #194
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We can do better than Tony Jefferson and Kenny Stills. I'd blow my brains out if that was our 2 and 3.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:11 PM   #195
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Well many athletes recovery from that surgery, and I'm fine with drafting a SS..but not Elam..
We can draft a middle round WR, I agree we need to upgrade the overall quality of the depth. But a round 1 pick for a slot guy..?
Still out of all the surgeries that are done to the knee it has to have the lowest success rate. I never said he was finished though. I'm 100 percent OK with not drafting Elam. I still think he is a good safety and can play with Moore though.

Austin is not just a slot WR. I don't know why you keep calling him that like that is the only position on a football field he is capable of playing. The guy can play RB, inside and outside. Decker can move inside giving Denver the ability to match up against any secondary in the NFL with ease. I've suggested Bailey, his teammate who is more of a slot WR in terms of ability at the next level later in the draft.

It's looking more and more like my dream of Hunt is not going to happen without us drafting him in the first round. Depending on how much Denver wants to continue to run this style of D, he might not be that bad of a first round pick anyways.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:11 PM   #196
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Jefferson is a FS.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:29 PM   #197
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Jefferson is a FS.
Isn't Elam a SS? Why couldn't he play with Moore?
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:46 PM   #198
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I still think we're drafting Kevin Minter in Round 1, a 3 down MLB from LSU.

With the scheme we run, we won't be looking for penetration DTs. Guys like Sheldon Richardson, Margus Hunt, and Bennie Logan are not what we want. Their role in our defense is filled by Wolfe and Jackson. And since we only want read and react cloggers that play less than half the snaps each, I can't imagine we take a DT early this draft.

Likewise, with our scheme, the DE position is full. Ayers, Dumervil, Wolfe, and Jackson. No room for another active DE. I don't see us going D-line at all within the top three rounds, if at all.

At WR, I can't imagine we'd look for a niche player like Tavon Austin and tinker with Manning's offense to scheme him the ball. Don't see it. Manning will want a traditional slot based offense. Stedman Bailey is far more likely to be drafted by us than Austin.

I see a massive need at SS. Adams is average and entering the last year of his deal. Carter has never proven anything. Leonhard and Bruton are FAs.


Right now, I would guess the early draft would look like:

1. MLB Kevin Minter, LSU
2. SS Tony Jefferson, Oklahoma
3. WR Kenny Stills, Oklahoma


with DT, OG, and more secondary/WR depth rounding it out.
I did mock him to us, but it will require our first round pick.
I think you are right and we will keep Wolfe at DE, but it would be a mistake not to draft a talented DT should the opportunity present itself. While I agree we won't draft a gap penetrator in our scheme, I do think we will look for bigger guys who move their weight well and can pressure the QB, I.E. Brandon Williams. I have talked this kid up and will continue to. He would fit perfectly, and I still question the long term plan of the defense going forward. If Wolfe stays at DE do you really like Silga and Unrein long term?

There is a current void at SS, but there's another bad safety prospect being named. Jefferson is not the prospect I want either. If you guys are draft junkies then you will watch some tape of Cooper Taylor (Richmond). The TEs in the NFL are big and fast, we need a SS who is a hybrid OLB/SS enter Cooper Taylor. We need a big physical SS.. Ray Ray Armstrong has elite talent but does have some off field issues.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:56 PM   #199
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Still out of all the surgeries that are done to the knee it has to have the lowest success rate. I never said he was finished though. I'm 100 percent OK with not drafting Elam. I still think he is a good safety and can play with Moore though.

Austin is not just a slot WR. I don't know why you keep calling him that like that is the only position on a football field he is capable of playing. The guy can play RB, inside and outside. Decker can move inside giving Denver the ability to match up against any secondary in the NFL with ease. I've suggested Bailey, his teammate who is more of a slot WR in terms of ability at the next level later in the draft.

It's looking more and more like my dream of Hunt is not going to happen without us drafting him in the first round. Depending on how much Denver wants to continue to run this style of D, he might not be that bad of a first round pick anyways.
His flexibility and attributes would best serve him on the inside. There are other prospects with similar attributes and skill sets who could be had later in the draft..I just think Hillman and Holiday can serve as explosive wrinkles from the backfield. It's ashame they haven't found creative ways to get both the ball. We need a shifty elusive WR in the slot and we can find him after the first round..
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:59 PM   #200
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His flexibility and attributes would best serve him on the inside. There are other prospects with similar attributes and skill sets who could be had later in the draft..I just think Hillman and Holiday can serve as explosive wrinkles from the backfield. It's ashame they haven't found creative ways to get both the ball. We need a shifty elusive WR in the slot and we can find him after the first round..
Austin would make Holliday expendable. It's clear we don't see eye to eye on the issue so I'm done talking about it.
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