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Old 12-27-2012, 12:49 PM   #226
BroncoInferno
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Pretty much not true. Just about every one of today's top long-term QBs struggled their first 16 games. I can't think of any outside of maybe Brady or Big Ben that didn't go 0-3 at some point in their first campaign. 4, or 5, or even 6 game losing streaks aren't at all uncommon with rook QB's.... with plenty of ****ty qb play on display.
Of course, most "long-term QBs" struggled. I guess you missed the point. Most QBs do not develop into long-term QBs at all. They are more likely to become a Brady Quinn rather than a Tom Brady. In other words, you are only comparing Tebow to the success stories when you should be comparing him to the field at large. Get it now?

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Old 12-27-2012, 12:54 PM   #227
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Vince had a little more going on than his W-L record. Ask Jeff Fisher.
The point is that even with a 2-3 season sample size to work with you can't simply rely on W-L record when gaging the long-term viability of a QB. I like how you conveniently ignored Orton's early success from a W-L perspective. Hell, look at Mark Sanchez. He won 4 playoff games his first two seasons while compiling a 19-12 regular season record (23-14 including playoffs).

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Old 12-27-2012, 01:22 PM   #228
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The point is that even with a 2-3 season sample size to work with you can't simply rely on W-L record when gaging the long-term viability of a QB. I like how you conveniently ignored Orton's early success from a W-L perspective. Hell, look at Mark Sanchez. He won 4 playoff games his first two seasons while compiling a 19-12 regular season record (23-14 including playoffs).
You're morphing the debate somewhat. The point is that most teams don't pull the plug on a green high-draft-pick who went 8-6 in the regular season. And then showed a few moments of brilliance in the playoffs. I think most Teboners wouldn't say anything at this point beyond "The Jury is Still Out. But he deserves another shot."

And Orton's a bad example for your argument, not mine. Did anyone cut him off after 16 games, saying he was never going to be NFL material?

No, even after the Bears gave up on him after 5 years, we brought him in to give him another shot. And at the time the Errandistas were running around saying "All he does is W-W-Win Baby!" Ironic as all get-out. But now they stand around in their circle buttercupping each other because they think their **** doesn't stink.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:23 PM   #229
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Tebow goes to Jax, then ___________, then_________, etc.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:28 PM   #230
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You're morphing the debate somewhat. The point is that most teams don't pull the plug on a green high-draft-pick who went 8-6 in the regular season. And then showed a few moments of brilliance in the playoffs. I think most Teboners wouldn't say anything at this point beyond "The Jury is Still Out. But he deserves another shot."

And Orton's a bad example for your argument, not mine. Did anyone cut him off after 16 games, saying he was never going to be NFL material?

No, even after the Bears gave up on him after 5 years, we brought him in to give him another shot. And at the time the Errandistas were running around saying "All he does is W-W-Win Baby!" Ironic as all get-out. But now they stand around in their circle buttercupping each other because they think their **** doesn't stink.
If your argument is nothing more than "Tebow deserves a fair shot somewhere," then you'll get no disagreement from me. My only point is that the early success from a W-L perspective is in no way an indicator of long-term viability, and comparing his struggles with the early struggles of the leagues top QBs is merely anecdotal, and a broader comparison to the field at large suggests that those successful outcomes are outliers rather than typical.

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Old 12-27-2012, 01:28 PM   #231
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BS,tebow was given every opportunity to succeed in Denver. They changed everything on the offense to accomadate him.he never showed any improvement & was traded.
Ryan traded for tebow to run a wildcat offense, & was told he would be the backup. In practice he never improved and as such he was not given the starting spot.
Oh, so we ran a spread option offense in 2011? Really? Sure as **** didn't look like that to me.

Also, Tebow was told he'd run some wildcat and be involved in various other packages while they had he and Sanchez compete, with Tebow as the #2 to open camp. Tebow hasn't officially lost the #2 job but now they're starting McElroy, yet you're arguing that Rex Ryan wasn't disingenuous in his original pitch?

Your hate for Teebs clouds your ability to make rational observations.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:33 PM   #232
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Oh, so we ran a spread option offense in 2011? Really? Sure as **** didn't look like that to me.

Also, Tebow was told he'd run some wildcat and be involved in various other packages while they had he and Sanchez compete, with Tebow as the #2 to open camp. Tebow hasn't officially lost the #2 job but now they're starting McElroy, yet you're arguing that Rex Ryan wasn't disingenuous in his original pitch?

Your hate for Teebs clouds your ability to make rational observations.
McElroy is hurt and Sanchez is starting next week. This is no different then what happened to Brady Quinn in Denver.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:39 PM   #233
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What is he 8-6 as a starter? 6-8 if Marion barber wasn't an idiot and Miami knew how recover a kick.
So that means Vince Young should still be playing? Cause he's won way more than tebow. Better win loss percentage.

Your arguement is ridiculous when you state there not enough play time to critique tebow, yet hold the arguement he's already won in that same exact frame time. Bad QBs don't win long term in the NFL.
that was not my argument. Perhaps you are incapable of following because you are retarded?

put on your earmuffs so that you feel safe and try to read this slowly;

There is not enough of a sample size to say anything about Tebow other than he has proven he CAN win and that he struggles to pass. Saying he is no good is something only a window licker would say, like you.

Those of us who don't think Barney is a real Dinosaur understand that Tebow is raw and needs to improve, but that there is more than enough evidence to give him more playing time. and THAT IS THE ISSUE. Because he sucks in practice, playing time is hard to achieve.

BUT, the lack of playing time has nothing to do with his in game production...and if it did, Rex Ryan is as retarded as you are.


here is a scenario for you, corky...

Player A is a heisman trophy winning Qb who has a winning record in one season worth of starts including a playoff victory...

Does player A deserve more playing time, or should he be a FB .

now pretend you aren't a complete vapid moron and try not to say "but the ball look wrong when throwing guy make football pass" and really, objectively look at the situation.

Does in game success(which again, only a retard would argue that Tebow has not had) matter more than how he looks in practice or to the retarded person's eye?
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:45 PM   #234
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Nobody is arguing for Sanchez....and I agree Sanchez sucks. Having said that, how poorly can he play and still keep his job as a starting QB?

I guess the answer is all he wants if Tebow is the alternative.
Here is were you window lickers crack me up the most.

Your logic is as follows.

1. Rex Ryan does not think Tebow should start.

2.Tebow, therefore is not good enough too start.

3. THe guy who Ryan keeps starting sucks.

4. Tebow must really really suck.



An objective person would like at it like this.

1.Rex Ryan does not think Tebow should start

2. Rex Ryan thinks Sanchez gives him the best chance to win.

3. MArk Sanchez has 50 turnovers in just over one and a half seasons

4. Rex Ryan does not understand quarterback play, and therefore anyone who thinks the fact that he wont play Tebow is an indication of Tebow, and not the guy who keeps starting the nfl leading turnover prone ORton like loser.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:48 PM   #235
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Maybe you remember Vince Young, then? As a rookie, he took over an 0-3 team and led them to an 8-5 finish. Even now he's still 31-19 in his career as a starter. Yet, no one wants him to start for them. I wonder why? Could it be that the reasons for wins and losses are often more complex than who lined up under center? Hell, Kyle Orton was 27-12 after his first 39 starts (~2.5 seasons worth).
I think once you disappear for days and try to kill yourself, that probably affects your ability to lead?

next?


I forgot how much fun killing these debates was...I missed it.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:50 PM   #236
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Of course, most "long-term QBs" struggled. I guess you missed the point. Most QBs do not develop into long-term QBs at all. They are more likely to become a Brady Quinn rather than a Tom Brady. In other words, you are only comparing Tebow to the success stories when you should be comparing him to the field at large. Get it now?
yes, and the difference is the guys that work hard...read the interviews...that is the difference. Tebow works hard, and he will improve. But his abilities as a pocket passer will always be bad because he is not talented in that way. He brings a lot more with his legs, and a coach could win with him.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:52 PM   #237
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I think once you disappear for days and try to kill yourself, that probably affects your ability to lead?

next?


I forgot how much fun killing these debates was...I missed it.
Nice how you skipped over Orton and his early W-L record success. Even Mark Sanchez won 4 playoff games his first two seasons and 23 games overall during that span. You aren't "killing" anything, just making simple-minded arguments that don't hold up under scutiny.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:54 PM   #238
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The point is that even with a 2-3 season sample size to work with you can't simply rely on W-L record when gaging the long-term viability of a QB. I like how you conveniently ignored Orton's early success from a W-L perspective. Hell, look at Mark Sanchez. He won 4 playoff games his first two seasons while compiling a 19-12 regular season record (23-14 including playoffs).
again, another win for me.


was MArk Sanchez benched after his first season? Vince young? any qb with Tebow like success had a chance to prove themselves.

let me put it this way... do you honestly think Tebow has had enough time to prove whether or not he can play? you think he played poorly enough in 16 starts to be on the bench?


can any of you haters honestly say yes to these questions?


of course not. Because it is you guys that are the zombie crowd, not us.

I want tebow to have another season to see whether or not he can improve. if not, then he can go to the CFl or be a FB..

right now, even his most passionate haters can't feel that he has been given enough of a shot.

he has started ONE game since throwing for 300 yards in the playoff game.


ONE ****ING GAME!

how can you guys type with a straight face, let alone, how do you not hide your heads in shame?

especially as the lot of you accuses others of being irrational!!!!


it is all there.... you guys are wrong, face it.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:56 PM   #239
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If your argument is nothing more than "Tebow deserves a fair shot somewhere," then you'll get no disagreement from me. My only point is that the early success from a W-L perspective is in no way an indicator of long-term viability, and comparing his struggles with the early struggles of the leagues top QBs is merely anecdotal, and a broader comparison to the field at large suggests that those successful outcomes are outliers rather than typical.
that has always been all of our points. thank god for you... now go back to the zombie room and tell your friends Errand and that muppet guy to take a walk and and come back when they aren't retarded. Thanks brosef.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:56 PM   #240
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yes, and the difference is the guys that work hard...read the interviews...that is the difference. Tebow works hard, and he will improve.
That's only your opinion. What do you know about the work ethic of Brady Quinn, Tim Couch or any other QB who didn't cut it? Work ethic is certainly an important factor in long-term success, but it's not the only factor and in any case can't be quantified for the purposes of this discussion and is therefore a meaningless point.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:57 PM   #241
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Nice how you skipped over Orton and his early W-L record success. Even Mark Sanchez won 4 playoff games his first two seasons and 23 games overall during that span. You aren't "killing" anything, just making simple-minded arguments that don't hold up under scutiny.
lol. yOu didn't let me finish
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:58 PM   #242
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That's only your opinion. What do you know about the work ethic of Brady Quinn, Tim Couch or any other QB who didn't cut it? Work ethic is certainly an important factor in long-term success, but it's not the only factor and in any case can't be quantified for the purposes of this discussion and is therefore a meaningless point.
Fair enough. Then I will drop the work ethic post out of the debate.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:05 PM   #243
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that has always been all of our points. thank god for you... now go back to the zombie room and tell your friends Errand and that muppet guy to take a walk and and come back when they aren't retarded. Thanks brosef.
Well, that's well and good, but I do think it's a little nuts to downplay the importance of practice in the equation. It makes it easy to rip a guy like Rex Ryan. But I'd guess that 99 times out of 100, the guys who performs better in practices also performs better in actual games, so it's easy to sympathize with Ryan's dillemma. Maybe Tebow is that rarity who is significantly and consistently better when the real bullets are flying, but is that something you'd be willing to bank your career on? Now, it's my opinion that when your QB is as bad as Mark Sanchez, there isn't much to lose in giving Tebow a shot. If it were me making the decisions, I'd say "what the hell, let's see if he's any better." But that's easy for me to say when my job isn't on the line. If Tebow is as horrid in practice as is alleged, then it's a little harder to say "OMG Rex is so stupid!!111!!!"
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:08 PM   #244
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Where's the Dennis Dixon thread?
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:11 PM   #245
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So anyone that doesn't agree with you is a retard. Sounds like a bitter liberal with no real direction. Keep chasing the dream that he's gonna be as good as all these other QBs hes being compared to in the early stages of their careers.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:13 PM   #246
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Well, that's well and good, but I do think it's a little nuts to downplay the importance of practice in the equation. It makes it easy to rip a guy like Rex Ryan. But I'd guess that 99 times out of 100, the guys who performs better in practices also performs better in actual games, so it's easy to sympathize with Ryan's dillemma. Maybe Tebow is that rarity who is significantly and consistently better when the real bullets are flying, but is that something you'd be willing to bank your career on? Now, it's my opinion that when your QB is as bad as Mark Sanchez, there isn't much to lose in giving Tebow a shot. If it were me making the decisions, I'd say "what the hell, let's see if he's any better." But that's easy for me to say when my job isn't on the line. If Tebow is as horrid in practice as is alleged, then it's a little harder to say "OMG Rex is so stupid!!111!!!"
Agreed. but, with the playoffs out of the way, why not let the guy who HAS PERFORMED get a shot even if ****ty in practice? Mcelroy? come on? That was absurd.

It lends itself that Ryan is a moron just purely on that.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:21 PM   #247
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Agreed. but, with the playoffs out of the way, why not let the guy who HAS PERFORMED get a shot even if ****ty in practice? Mcelroy? come on? That was absurd.

It lends itself that Ryan is a moron just purely on that.
Yeah, but it's kind of a no-win for Ryan. After all, as others have pointed out, what if Tebow comes in and pulls a couple of meaningless wins out of his ass? Now the narrative of the season is out of Ryan's control. Critics will say, "Wow, how dumb was Ryan to stick with Sanchez when he could have won with Tebow!" As things stand, Ryan has a bit more narrative control. He can just say things didn't work out with Tebow and there isn't anything to really cast doubt on that other than speculation. Also, if Tebow gets two wins, he's probably stuck with him come hell or highwater in 2013. You think the owner is going to let him dump Tebow if he comes in and has some success and generates excitement with the fanbase? Elway only got away with it because he landed Manning.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:23 PM   #248
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"OMG Rex is so stupid!!111!!!"
Exhibit B. Just last March (this offseason), Rex and Co signed Mark Sanchez to a 5-year $60 million/$20 guaranteed contract.

If the shoe fits? OMG... Rex is so stupid.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:00 PM   #249
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Agreed. but, with the playoffs out of the way, why not let the guy who HAS PERFORMED get a shot even if ****ty in practice? Mcelroy? come on? That was absurd.

It lends itself that Ryan is a moron just purely on that.
Because in the NFL, guys who suck in practice are not rewarded with expanded playing time on Sundays. It just.doesn't.happen.that.way.

A player who wants to earn playing time cannot afford to suck in practice because practice is where guys convince the coaches that they have the ability to help the team win. If you don't do that, you get buried on the bench. Just the way it is.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:06 PM   #250
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Because in the NFL, guys who suck in practice are not rewarded with expanded playing time on Sundays. It just.doesn't.happen.that.way.

A player who wants to earn playing time cannot afford to suck in practice because practice is where guys convince the coaches that they have the ability to help the team win. If you don't do that, you get buried on the bench. Just the way it is.
Yeah McElroy practiced so well he was kept inactive 90% of the time.
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