Does Shanahan make it through the season?

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Exactly. You need to hide from all forms of context just to attempt to support your laughable 'argument'

One playoff win in 10 years is not good my friend, regardless of your context.

[baja]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

how is Fox not on the list?

Because Peyton F'n Manning is his quarter back.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

One playoff win in 10 years is not good my friend, regardless of your context.

It's taken us falling ass first into Peyton Manning to have a shot at tying that 05 record achieved with Jake ****ing Plummer lol. Hopefully we make it as far, and even further, than we did that year, but that too remains to be seen.

[baja]

Elway and Co have rebuilt a hell of a team just two years after the MCD debacle something Shanny couldn't do in a decade after Elway retired.

[R8R H8R]

Originally Posted by baja

Because Peyton F'n Manning is his quarter back.

Agreed, but I am sure Fox will gladly forego COY for a Lombardi or two before he retires.

[Pass is...IN-COM-PLETE!]

Originally Posted by baja

Elway and Co have rebuilt a hell of a team just two years after the MCD debacle something Shanny couldn't do in a decade after Elway retired.

2005?

[baja]

Originally Posted by Pass is...IN-COM-PLETE!

2005?

That 2005 team should be the poster team for a Mike Shanahan team post Elway. Smoke and mirrors with tape & bailing wire. Hell the very next draft he gave up half his draft to draft a QB so you know the 2005 team were a bunch of over achievers. Look at what Elway has done. This team is solid with some depth and mostly young with youth backing vets in most cases. All this in just two seasons after we finished 4 & 12

[RedskinBronco]

Originally Posted by baja

That 2005 team should be the poster team for a Mike Shanahan team post Elway. Smoke and mirrors with tape & bailing wire. Hell the very next draft he gave up half his draft to draft a QB so you know the 2005 team were a bunch of over achievers. Look at what Elway has done. This team is solid with some depth and mostly young with youth backing vets in most cases. All this in just two seasons after we finished 4 & 12

well said; I completely trust Elway with personnel decisions.

[Tombstone RJ]

Give the Broncos credit for making that #2 pick count with Von Miller. That pick alone has really helped the Broncos retool quickly, especially on defense. Of course Manning is the key to the offense. Elway has done very well so far. Of course if Twilight pans out Elway will look like a genius.

[baja]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

Give the Broncos credit for making that #2 pick count with Von Miller. That pick alone has really helped the Broncos retool quickly, especially on defense. Of course Manning is the key to the offense. Elway has done very well so far. Of course if Twilight pans out Elway will look like a genius.

We should have had some insider reports on Oz by now.

[Action]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Blatantly obvious bull**** claim. Pretty standard from you, though.

No, I've actually watched every second and every down of the Broncos this season...including pre-season. I have my DirectTV DVR recording every game too, so I have all the most recent games that the hard drive can hold. No bull **** here.

I will admit that I watched most the pre-season streaming though.

To nitpick, they're not #1 in RZ eff %, NE is and NO is #2. Regardless, I suppose by your statement you missed that NO's RBs have scored 17 TDs? Or how they're a full half yard per carry better than us rushing the ball and have a full 4 really talented backs?

Must have changed ...NO was #1 at a point but yes that's nitpicking.

What does NO's RB having 17 touchdowns have to do with anything? How about you actually tell the full truth and point out that they only have 10 rushing touchdowns? Or does that not help your case? Or how about of those 10 rushing touchdowns, only 7 were inside the red zone.

Out of the 49 touchdowns the Saints have scored this year, only 10 have been rushing and 7 of them actually inside the redzone.

lol @ 4 really talented backs..."really talented" got to be a joke in words to describe the RBs on the Saints. So talented none of them would be starting on the Denver Broncos RIGHT NOW.

[Action]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Another dip**** statement. Right now it's looking like Champs a HoF lock, with Marshall well on his way, and Clady likely to get there if he stays healthy as well, with Elvis a potential candidate as well. Then you have probowl tier guys like Woodyard, Cutler, Kuper also on the roster. Then you have the next tier of extremely solid players like DJ, Lichtensteiger, Polumbus, Tyson Clabo and Ryan Harris. And I'm not even getting into quality role player guys like Scheffler

In fact, let's play a game. You show me a roster turned over after a big coaching change several years ago with more players still in the league and ones that are remotely NEAR this quality of talent.

Spoiler alert: You can't. You just regurgitate bull**** by yelling about fringe depth and PS players.

Let's continue you this game to show you accuracy and nitpicking to help your case:

First off Tyson Clabo was on the Broncos in 2004 and that's it. Didn't play a game for us. So you completely failed here. Must have defended Shanahan in so many arguments you're forgetting what you're actually defending

So players like Polumbus and Ryan Harris are "extremely solid"? Yeah you must have some Shanahan in you, completely over exaggerating the talent of players. Ryan Harris is "extremely solid" ladies and gentleman. The injury prone player who can't finish a season and not to be taken serious by anyone. How are guys who barely start in their careers considered "extremely" solid.

I'm not even going to go through the roster because it's a joke. So over 2 sesasons (2007 and 2007) with a 52 man roster, including all the FAs signed due to the injuries that would boost that to probably around 60... considering all the roster changes that occur from season to season let's say that there were 70-75 players in those 2 season from Shanahan...

You named me 12 players. Do you realize how much of an idiot you'd have to be to even sell this joke to yourself?

12 players out of 70-75 players. Think about that for a second.

I don't even know what you're asking me to show you, but I'll show you a roster after a big coaching change several years ago with players just as good, if not, better than what you just listed.

Pittsburgh Steelers, 2006-2007. Coaching change.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/pit/year/2006

Spoiler: there's HOF players and there a lot of players still in the league TODAY.

Spoiler: Rev lost.



PS
My posts mainly are in regards to the **** defensive personel puts out. But yeah, it's not like most his running backs would be starting in any other type of system.

[Action]

How about another team more recent.

49ers with Jim Harbaugh taking over. 2010/2011

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/sf/year/2010

Spoiler: a lot of the same players. more than 12.

Shanahan's inability to put together a team with players that are actually NFL caliber is well documented, there are articles out there that go so in depth with how ****ty the players he put on the Broncos were that it's really sad to think someone could just run at team like that in a "winning franchise."

You've got to be in straight denial to think anything else, other than just highlighting a few players when football is played with a 46 man roster every Sunday.

Shanahan isn't built for physical football. Well documented.

I think at this point in time, it's crucial to have a physical football team. I'm almost positive any fan here reading my post today would agree that they'd rather have a team that plays more physical like we do now (or Steelers or Ravens or 49ers etc) than a team that's soft and agile like how Shanahan coaches his teams.

*waits for someone to say Shanahan isn't a soft coach because Redskins are #1 in rushing*

[Action]

Originally Posted by Pass is...IN-COM-PLETE!

2005?

Give it up for...

Larry Coyer and Gary Kubiak

[ol#7]

Originally Posted by Action

Give it up for...

Larry Coyer and Gary Kubiak

But I though you said the assistant coaches he hired were laughable?

Josh called, he said you forgot to wipe your face.

[Action]

Originally Posted by ol#7

But I though you said the assistant coaches he hired were laughable?

Josh called, he said you forgot to wipe your face.

Are you really stooping to this level of stupidity? We all know damn well Kubiak is a great offensive coach. Larry Coyer was let go as the scape goat. Larry Coyer was ok, but Kubiak was great and he was hired in 1995. Kubiak had the same soft football blood in him too as you saw with the Texans until they hired a real defensive coach.

When someone throws out a general statement, you can't just nitpick some little **** like Rev and act as if that disproves the whole statement.

Are you saying that Shanahan hired great coaches or something? If he did, he wouldn't have been in the position he was in.

Josh called, and he said he loves that he's in your thoughts 24/7. I can't even match you there bud, you can have Josh all to yourself

[ol#7]

Originally Posted by baja

That 2005 team should be the poster team for a Mike Shanahan team post Elway. Smoke and mirrors with tape & bailing wire. Hell the very next draft he gave up half his draft to draft a QB so you know the 2005 team were a bunch of over achievers. Look at what Elway has done. This team is solid with some depth and mostly young with youth backing vets in most cases. All this in just two seasons after we finished 4 & 12

And you know what, Shanahan knew that team was all smoke and mirrors, which is why he blew it up. I really don't see how you can fault him for dragging what was left of the b2b teams to another Championship, realizing that was as far as he could get it, and hitting the reset button.

Really, I think 2006-08 you can actually see his rebuilding plan taking shape. It is the only time post Elway where there was a coherent rebuild plan. If anything, he coached too well, and we could have used a really down year to get a better pick. I will always lament the fact he didn't get one last year to address the defense. I think that was a team that was ready to turn the corner with one solid offseason. Instead we got McD needlessly hitting the reset button on the parts that had been assembled.

We are quite lucky to be in this position. The Manning scenario has never happened before, and we are even more fortunate that he has actually been able to return to form. While you can credit the braintrust, that is the type of hail mary a front office normally doesn't have an opportunity to make. What they do post Manning though should be what they are graded on. Hopefully not for several more years though.

I still think our depth is pretty bad. Just like when Elway was here, Manning makes alot of guys look/play better than they are. If anything, I think this proves that a franchise QB is a must in the NFL. Without it you have to be perfect assembling talent to keep pace. Hell trade Griese/Plummer for Manning and how many more championships would those supposedly talent deficient teams have netted? We weren't 2-14 talent level bad post Elway. The Colts really screwed Manning with what they gave him to work with all those years.

[ol#7]

Originally Posted by Action

Are you really stooping to this level of stupidity? We all know damn well Kubiak is a great offensive coach. Larry Coyer was let go as the scape goat. Larry Coyer was ok, but Kubiak was great and he was hired in 1995. Kubiak had the same soft football blood in him too as you saw with the Texans until they hired a real defensive coach.

Josh called, and he said he loves that he's in your thoughts 24/7. I can't even match you there bud, you can have Josh all to yourself

Oh, now Kubiak is soft because he inherited a broken David Carr and a mess of a Texans team.

I love Wade Phillips, but he is as soft as they come. An OK coordinator though. Hardly the Reason the rest of the AFC has been chasing the Texans all year or the fact that they rode a 3rd string rookie QB to the second round of the playoffs last year though.

[Action]

Originally Posted by ol#7

And you know what, Shanahan knew that team was all smoke and mirrors, which is why he blew it up. I really don't see how you can fault him for dragging what was left of the b2b teams to another Championship, realizing that was as far as he could get it, and hitting the reset button.

So you can't fault him for the team he put out? What? I mean he's had the team since 1995, for 10 years until the point you're talking about...and you can't fault him?

You'd think in 10 years a coach of his caliber can develop an environment where you don't have to blow **** up. That's the whole thing with Elway here, and he's BUILDING a real foundation... not just with players but with how the team operates.

Really, I think 2006-08 you can actually see his rebuilding plan taking shape. It is the only time post Elway where there was a coherent rebuild plan. If anything, he coached too well, and we could have used a really down year to get a better pick. I will always lament the fact he didn't get one last year to address the defense. I think that was a team that was ready to turn the corner with one solid offseason. Instead we got McD needlessly hitting the reset button on the parts that had been assembled.

What coherent plan are you talking about? Because we had offensive weapons that had ****ed up character traits? Did you actually go through the 2006-2008 rosters and see who is still in the NFL after the Broncos put them on the team?

McDaniels hit reset on defense which was much needed. Not to mention McDaniels was put in a financial **** hole Shanahan left over. Again, SHANAHAN PUT THE BRONCOS IN A FINANCIAL **** HOLE.

Before all this McDaniels talk starts, he shouldn't have been responsible for this anyways and Denver should have hired a real GM.

We are quite lucky to be in this position. The Manning scenario has never happened before, and we are even more fortunate that he has actually been able to return to form. While you can credit the braintrust, that is the type of hail mary a front office normally doesn't have an opportunity to make. What they do post Manning though should be what they are graded on. Hopefully not for several more years though.

Oh right because they do WITH Manning won't be graded? What kind of reality are you in?

I still think our depth is pretty bad. Just like when Elway was here, Manning makes alot of guys look/play better than they are. If anything, I think this proves that a franchise QB is a must in the NFL.

You still think our depth is pretty bad?

So Manning is making the defense play better/look even though there has been numerous times the defense has scored and numerous times the offensive hit a lull going 3 and out?

We've had injuries at damn near every position and we're still the only team top 5 on offense and defense-- points AND yardage... lay down the crack pipe.

Stop following football all together and just sit in your rocking chair and watch the super bowl seasons on repeat...if you get bored just watch the 2006-2008 season so you can see this great coherent plan that Shanahan was putting together....

[Action]

Originally Posted by ol#7

Oh, now Kubiak is soft because he inherited a broken David Carr and a mess of a Texans team.

I love Wade Phillips, but he is as soft as they come. An OK coordinator though. Hardly the Reason the rest of the AFC has been chasing the Texans all year or the fact that they rode a 3rd string rookie QB to the second round of the playoffs last year though.

Did you see the Texans defense before Wade Phillips? They were 30 in the league... 30TH IN THE LEAGUE

Have you seen the Texans defense when they hired Wade Phillips? Last year they were number 2 in yardage and 4 in points.

Did you see how the Broncos oline got manhandled this year when we played the Texans?

I know know much about Wade Phillips past as a DC but I know damn well in Houston he's put together a physical attacking defense. I also know because I had them on my fantasy squad for part of the year

He's done a FANTASTIC job as DC in Houston...

Kubiak was damn near going to get fired until Wade Phillips got hired.

Lay down the crack pipe.

[ol#7]

Wait, I thought injuries weren't supposed to happen after Shanahan left?

Yes judge how many players are left from 2006-08 in a league where the average career is 4 years. Seems fair. You bagged on Walls and Herndon, both of which played for other teams for 3 more seasons after leaving the Broncos.

I am not sure I can break this down any further for you. Shanny tried to retool with what was left post SB run, and we stayed in the mix and nearly won a 3rd title. That was what was expected of him and the franchise, and that was what they delivered. He never did blow anything up. Hence the reason we were playing for a playoff spot in 2006. He coached too well for that. What he did was try and get an elite QB. Adding a couple D-lineman to the Jake Plummer led Bronco's was never going to be good enough.

I already stated elite QB play masks talent deficiencies. This is pretty much the same team talent wise as the 8-8 Tebow led Bronco's. What other pieces have they really added this year? Maybe you can make another post breaking down Hillman, and diagram why we are winning at a 5+ game better rate with him on the roster.

This is the same team that was starting Joe Mays and continues to trot Ramirez out there to get owned. They are extremely thiiiiiin at alot of spots, and are getting damn lucky that a couple of FA CB's are panning out....Just like Walls and Herndon.

Not too sure we have any kind of Foundation if Manning goes down. Honestly I think without 18 we would suck. Hopefully we don't have to find that out anytime soon.

[ol#7]

Originally Posted by Action

Did you see the Texans defense before Wade Phillips? They were 30 in the league... 30TH IN THE LEAGUE

Have you seen the Texans defense when they hired Wade Phillips? Last year they were number 2 in yardage and 4 in points.

Did you see how the Broncos oline got manhandled this year when we played the Texans?

I know know much about Wade Phillips past as a DC but I know damn well in Houston he's put together a physical attacking defense. I also know because I had them on my fantasy squad for part of the year

He's done a FANTASTIC job as DC in Houston...

Kubiak was damn near going to get fired until Wade Phillips got hired.

Lay down the crack pipe.

Before they got Phillips, they had a terrible secondary. Phillips is a good coordinator, but to say that he is the only reason the Texans are having any success is laughable. Kubiak is a damn good coach.

But I see, you can only like/acknowledge the coaches that Action likes/acknowledges or else your doing smack. Any other opinion is laughable.

[Action]

Originally Posted by ol#7

Wait, I thought injuries weren't supposed to happen after Shanahan left?

Yes judge how many players are left from 2006-08 in a league where the average career is 4 years. Seems fair. You bagged on Walls and Herndon, both of which played for other teams for 3 more seasons after leaving the Broncos.

I am not sure I can break this down any further for you. Shanny tried to retool with what was left post SB run, and we stayed in the mix and nearly won a 3rd title. That was what was expected of him and the franchise, and that was what they delivered. He never did blow anything up. Hence the reason we were playing for a playoff spot in 2006. He coached too well for that. What he did was try and get an elite QB. Adding a couple D-lineman to the Jake Plummer led Bronco's was never going to be good enough.

I already stated elite QB play masks talent deficiencies. This is pretty much the same team talent wise as the 8-8 Tebow led Bronco's. What other pieces have they really added this year? Maybe you can make another post breaking down Hillman, and diagram why we are winning at a 5+ game better rate with him on the roster.

This is the same team that was starting Joe Mays and continues to trot Ramirez out there to get owned. They are extremely thiiiiiin at alot of spots, and are getting damn lucky that a couple of FA CB's are panning out....Just like Walls and Herndon.

Not too sure we have any kind of Foundation if Manning goes down. Honestly I think without 18 we would suck. Hopefully we don't have to find that out anytime soon.

You really have no rational brain cell and to try and bash me for providing this forum with a play by play break down of Ronnie Hillman to HELP others see what offensive line is doing, goes to show the absolute length you're willing to go to make a point.

Jabbing me for taking pictures and breaking down plays for the forum? Is this a joke?

We just won the playoffs and the division a year ago, and you say we would suck.

I just told you we've had injuries at damn near every position, yet you make no valid point by saying we have Ramirez and Joe Mays. Seriously?

You must be one of those people who think that there should be a starter-caliber player behind every other starter on the team.

Like I said, you really have no rational brain cell.

Saying that Elway won't be graded until after Manning has got to be one of the dumbest things to be said to cap off this year.

Congratulations.

PS
Herndon and Walls played in the league for 2 more years after the Broncos let them go, get your damn facts straight and stop jading them in your favor. Unless you're counting Herndon's last season of 4 games and 2 tackles.

[Action]

Originally Posted by ol#7

Before they got Phillips, they had a terrible secondary. Phillips is a good coordinator, but to say that he is the only reason the Texans are having any success is laughable. Kubiak is a damn good coach.

But I see, you can only like/acknowledge the coaches that Action likes/acknowledges or else your doing smack. Any other opinion is laughable.

Of course he's not the only reason, but he's a huge reason... I just told you Kubiak was about to get fired before Phillips came along, what part of that don't you understand?

I also just said a few posts up...

We all know damn well Kubiak is a great offensive coach.

[ol#7]

Originally Posted by Action

You really have no rational brain cell and to try and bash me for providing this forum with a play by play break down of Ronnie Hillman to HELP others see what offensive line is doing, goes to show the absolute length you're willing to go to make a point.

Jabbing me for taking pictures and breaking down plays for the forum? Is this a joke?

We just won the playoffs and the division a year ago, and you say we would suck.

I just told you we've had injuries at damn near every position, yet you make no valid point by saying we have Ramirez and Joe Mays. Seriously?

You must be one of those people who think that there should be a starter-caliber player behind every other starter on the team.

Like I said, you really have no rational brain cell.

Saying that Elway won't be graded until after Manning has got to be one of the dumbest things to be said to cap off this year.

Congratulations.

PS
Herndon and Walls played in the league for 2 more years after the Broncos let them go, get your damn facts straight and stop jading them in your favor. Unless you're counting Herndon's last season of 4 games and 2 tackles.

Did Herndon make an NFL roster 3 years after leaving the Broncos? Then yes. But it's funny to think about a pro athlete making a team, since I am sure you have done that and more. !!!!

Aside from Manning, what foundational pieces has Elway added to last years 8-8 team? Wolfe pretty good. Everyone else is a situational player at best, and their true value has yet to be tested. Grade is incomplete, but you read that as bashing.

I am elated that they are doing this well. I didn't think they had enough talent for Manning to make this much of a difference. Doesn't mean that they aren't playing better with Manning than they would have with just about anyone else they could have played at QB this year though.

My point was an Elite QB probably is worth 5,6,7,8 wins to a team, all things being relative. That kind of talent swing is hard to judge against as there are few truly Elite QB's. With our schedule this year, same draft/FA's, and Tebow (who I wanted back) we might only win 6-7 games this year. Elway knows this. Elway drug some pretty mediocre teams to championships. But to say that this roster has a solid foundation with or without Manning...Shows you have no perspective on the matter.