Another tragedy at an elementary school

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

Mental illness is a huge component, but it's not limited to that. What causes this kind of thing isn't just one thing. In some cases it's mental illness, sure, but not all of the violence in our society is due to mental illness.

We have to face the facts: Americans have the most violent culture on Earth. There isn't even any debate.

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

Mental illness is a huge component, but it's not limited to that. What causes this kind of thing isn't just one thing. In some cases it's mental illness, sure, but not all of the violence in our society is due to mental illness.

What does that mean? Is it time to go beyond the issue at hand and instead declare a government sponsored "War on Violence?"

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

What does that mean? Is it time to go beyond the issue at hand and instead declare a government sponsored "War on Violence?"

What the hell are you talking about?

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

What the hell are you talking about?

You seem to be trying to take the issue at hand... a widely-known mentally unstable kid being set loose by society to do as he pleases, with terrible results... into a wider argument about violence of all kinds.

Why?

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

You seem to be trying to take the issue at hand... a widely-known mentally unstable kid being set loose by society to do as he pleases, with terrible results... into a wider argument about violence of all kinds.

Why?

Because you seemed to want me to clarify what I meant by disease...

You, of course, demonstrated very well what I am talking about when the automatic metaphor for dealing with something you could come up with was... war.

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

Because you seemed to want me to clarify what I meant by disease...

You, of course, demonstrated very well what I am talking about when the automatic metaphor for dealing with something you could come up with was... war.

My "War on" metaphor wasn't really about literal war, fwiw. More about how successful other government programs to end bad things have been up until this point.

[cutthemdown]

We shouldnt arm the teachers but maybe we should arm 1 or 2 teachers. Or the principal etc etc.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

We shouldnt arm the teachers but maybe we should arm 1 or 2 teachers. Or the principal etc etc.

We have a hard enough time finding teachers.

My guess is that a vast majority of teachers would not want to carry a gun into a school.

I'd also bet that a not-insignificant percentage of teachers would refuse to teach in a school that allows its teachers to carry. I know I would, and I can't think of a single person I knew that I graduated college with who would, either.

The Second Amendment gives the right to bear arms. Let's not turn our schools into the Old freaking West. It's bad enough that I have to go out to dinner and see people with big irons on their hip.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by houghtam

We have a hard enough time finding teachers.

My guess is that a vast majority of teachers would not want to carry a gun into a school.

I'd also bet that a not-insignificant percentage of teachers would refuse to teach in a school that allows its teachers to carry. I know I would, and I can't think of a single person I knew that I graduated college with who would, either.

The Second Amendment gives the right to bear arms. Let's not turn our schools into the Old freaking West. It's bad enough that I have to go out to dinner and see people with big irons on their hip.

Besides teachers make too much. An armed guard would be cheaper. Fire the worst teacher at every school and use that money for an armed guard. Send those kids into the other class rooms.

[razorwire77]

Originally Posted by Meck77

We need to arm our teachers.

I'm a high school educator. I grew up in a small town where shooting was a way of life. I've shot pretty much every type of handgun imaginable short of a desert eagle .50 and dozens of rifles and shotguns. The day that we start arming elementary school teachers is the day I look for a new line of work and a new country to raise my family.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by razorwire77

I'm a high school educator. I grew up in a small town where shooting was a way of life. I've shot pretty much every type of handgun imaginable short of a desert eagle .50 and dozens of rifles and shotguns. The day that we start arming elementary school teachers is the day I look for a new line of work and a new country to raise my family.

What about a security guard that either has access to a firearm, or is armed?

[razorwire77]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

What about a security guard that either has access to a firearm, or is armed?

You mean the same rent-a-cop security guards that make 9 bucks an hour and stare disturbingly at the pretty girls? Yeah, I want to give those guys a Glock .45 and a mandate. Most school districts can't afford to purchase decent computers, much less pay a semi-competent armed security guard. Hell, most major cities can't even afford to pay and retain decent cops.

[Bob]

The following article is not exactly light reading, but it clearly shows the historical correlation between restricting gun rights in various countries and the genocides that followed. The 2nd Amendment was not, and has never been about hunting -- it is about our God-given responsibility to preserve liberty for ourselves, and for our children. Although, we also grieve over the tragedy of Newtown, CT we cannot trade liberty for a false sense of security. It seems clear to me that this very sad event will be used to usurp our rights - not because the statists in government "care" about the children. They do care, however, about using the goodness of our hearts, manipulating our suffering, and our demands for unattainable justice to seize control, which control they cannot have until they have an unarmed citizenry. http://www.guncite.com/journals/lethal.html

[Bob]

Originally Posted by razorwire77

You mean the same rent-a-cop security guards that make 9 bucks an hour and stare disturbingly at the pretty girls? Yeah, I want to give those guys a Glock .45 and a mandate. Most school districts can't afford to purchase decent computers, much less pay a semi-competent armed security guard. Hell, most major cities can't even afford to pay and retain decent cops.

In Montana they have cops in the middle and high schools...and we don't have sales taxes - one advantage of smaller government.

[razorwire77]

Originally Posted by Bob

In Montana they have cops in the middle and high schools...and we don't have sales taxes - one advantage of smaller government.

New Mexico does as well. Big difference though between having a part time cop in some of the rougher high school a couple of times per week and going balls out cops in the hallway of every public elementary school in America.

[Rohirrim]

I don't see any reason why we can't just say that bolt action rifles, shotguns (limited to three rounds - and not that phony-ass plug you can just remove) and revolvers limited to six rounds are the only guns that are legal in the U.S. That doesn't violate the 2nd amendment. Oh, and no armor piercing ammo.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by razorwire77

You mean the same rent-a-cop security guards that make 9 bucks an hour and stare disturbingly at the pretty girls? Yeah, I want to give those guys a Glock .45 and a mandate. Most school districts can't afford to purchase decent computers, much less pay a semi-competent armed security guard. Hell, most major cities can't even afford to pay and retain decent cops.

With all the teachers getting caught banging the kids not sure i would worry about one more adult in the mix. Are you saying teachers somehow more moral then security guards?

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I don't see any reason why we can't just say that bolt action rifles, shotguns (limited to three rounds - and not that phony-ass plug you can just remove) and revolvers limited to six rounds are the only guns that are legal in the U.S. That doesn't violate the 2nd amendment. Oh, and no armor piercing ammo.

If you can't hit your target with 10 rounds, you don't need a higher capacity magazine. You need more target practice.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I don't see any reason why we can't just say that bolt action rifles, shotguns (limited to three rounds - and not that phony-ass plug you can just remove) and revolvers limited to six rounds are the only guns that are legal in the U.S. That doesn't violate the 2nd amendment. Oh, and no armor piercing ammo.

I think something like this is what liberals should really push for. I mean why waste your time in power by not going for what you really want to do. being worried it could hurt down the road is foolish. Grab what you can while you can. Also they better move fast you want all this gun control over by the next midterm elections.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by houghtam

If you can't hit your target with 10 rounds, you don't need a higher capacity magazine. You need more target practice.

You know here in Calif we can't have more then 10 round magazines. People just buy 5-6 magazines and load them all up. It's really easy to slap another magazine into the rifle. Sure I guess it slows you down a bit and it could in theory change a situation but i doubt it would make a noticable drop in gun related homicide. Remember that guy at the college, was it virg tech? He used handguns so rifles not even the most deadly.

i understand people are pissed and want to think the govt can do something about it. Another great example of liberals thinking the govt can help them when in reality there might not be much they can do.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by houghtam

If you can't hit your target with 10 rounds, you don't need a higher capacity magazine. You need more target practice.

What if you have 5 targets? or more.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

What if you have 5 targets? or more.

You know what? You're right. What if you have 5 targets? Or a million? Lets legalize nukes.

No one needs a high capacity magazine. No one.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

I think something like this is what liberals should really push for. I mean why waste your time in power by not going for what you really want to do. being worried it could hurt down the road is foolish. Grab what you can while you can. Also they better move fast you want all this gun control over by the next midterm elections.

I don't really care what ideological heading you want to put it under. What's wrong with it? We need to start talking ideas in this country, and dump all the ideological bull****.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Sure I guess it slows you down a bit and it could in theory change a situation but i doubt it would make a noticable drop in gun related homicide.

Interesting, so it's just a theory that having lower capacity magazines might slow him down, so there's no reason to institute a ban, yet in theory someone could take out the shooter using a concealed weapon, so we should start arming our teachers and principals?

Good to know you can talk out both sides of your mouth.

And you claim liberals are the ones with talking points.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by houghtam

You know what? You're right. What if you have 5 targets? Or a million? Lets legalize nukes.

No one needs a high capacity magazine. No one.

Just a silly law calif already has. Big deal everyone carries 3-4 loaded magazines. Not like it makes people any safer. It just makes some dude who liked his 30 round clip when he goes shooting get screwed. Thats it. Also saying oh you want 30 round magazines? OH MAN WHY NOT GIVE YOU A TANK AND A NUCLEAR MISSILE. What a friggin joke. Your arguments are a joke and so are you.