Another tragedy at an elementary school

[Bob]

This one is from China, very sad stuff...

On 14 December 2012 between 7 and 8 a.m. local time, a 36-year-old villager identified as Min Yingjun (Chinese: 闵应军) stabbed 23 people, including 22 children and an elderly woman, in a knife attack at Chenpeng Village Primary School. The school is situated in Wenshu Township of Guangshan County, which is administrated by the city of Xinyang, 800 km south of Beijing, in the Chinese province of Henan. The children targeted by the knifeman are thought likely to be between six and eleven years of age and the attack occurred as the children were arriving for classes.

[lonestar]

Amazing he did not even use a firearm. Bet they enact knife control laws after this one.

Another nutball. In a different world.

[Kid A]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Amazing he did not even use a firearm. Bet they enact knife control laws after this one.

Another nutball. In a different world.

Yes, he used a knife, likely because a gun is much harder to get in China. And guess what happened? Nobody died. Only 4 serious injuries. If he had easy access to a gun (like most Americans) you would have a lot of fatalities at that Chinese school.

I can't think of a better story to illustrate why the argument that "gun control won't stop crazies from finding other ways to kill" is bull****. Clearly anyone with a brain can realize that guns are 100x more effective killing machines than knives—that's why they were created in the first place. And that's why they should be regulated more heavily than knives.

[cutthemdown]

American won't stand for guns being illegal so why bother talking about it. You can limit guns but all it takes is a handgun to have a massacre.

[DenverBrit]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

American won't stand for guns being illegal so why bother talking about it. You can limit guns but all it takes is a handgun to have a massacre.

That ship sailed a long time ago.

But as I mentioned in another thread, gun owners need to be responsible for their weapons.

What is wrong with them taking responsibility for the security of those weapons?

With kids in the house, guns need to be securely locked up. If there is a 'collection' of guns, a guns safe should be mandatory.

We can't anticipate when lunacy will strike, but we can make sure we don't make weapons easily available when it does.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

American won't stand for guns being illegal so why bother talking about it. You can limit guns but all it takes is a handgun to have a massacre.

They've already did with assault rifle bans. That did nothing.

All mass murders happen in gun free zones.

[ant1999e]

Originally Posted by Kid A

Yes, he used a knife, likely because a gun is much harder to get in China. And guess what happened? Nobody died. Only 4 serious injuries. If he had easy access to a gun (like most Americans) you would have a lot of fatalities at that Chinese school.

I can't think of a better story to illustrate why the argument that "gun control won't stop crazies from finding other ways to kill" is bull****. Clearly anyone with a brain can realize that guns are 100x more effective killing machines than knives—that's why they were created in the first place. And that's why they should be regulated more heavily than knives.

If only we could be more like China. What wonderful freedoms they have.

[Kid A]

Originally Posted by ant1999e

If only we could be more like China. What wonderful freedoms they have.

Right, pointing out the silliness of lonestar saying knives are equally dangerous as guns was an endorsement of Chinese totalitarianism. There are plenty of western democracies with sane gun control laws in place that could likely make at least a dent in our problems.

You'll likely find that more and more American's will start rolling their eyes when gun nuts default to this same insistence that we can't even talk about gun control because even putting it on the table threatens the entire Constitution. America has (to a fault) surrendered freedoms to protect against terrorism; I think they will prove much more willing to tighten gun access if they think it lowers the risk of their kids getting gunned down at school.

How to effectively do that (or if can even be done effectively) is a fair debate, but acting as though it isn't a reasonable question to raise is insane.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Kid A

Yes, he used a knife, likely because a gun is much harder to get in China. And guess what happened? Nobody died. Only 4 serious injuries. If he had easy access to a gun (like most Americans) you would have a lot of fatalities at that Chinese school.

I can't think of a better story to illustrate why the argument that "gun control won't stop crazies from finding other ways to kill" is bull****. Clearly anyone with a brain can realize that guns are 100x more effective killing machines than knives—that's why they were created in the first place. And that's why they should be regulated more heavily than knives.

Do you think the horror of being stabbed will ever be forgotten for that matter seeing classmates will forget it..

If you did not know they are regulated more heavily than knives. Never heard about having to get a FBI background check when going to Macy's or Bed Bath and beyond.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Kid A

Right, pointing out the silliness of lonestar saying knives are equally dangerous as guns was an endorsement of Chinese totalitarianism. There are plenty of western democracies with sane gun control laws in place that could likely make at least a dent in our problems.

You'll likely find that more and more American's will start rolling their eyes when gun nuts default to this same insistence that we can't even talk about gun control because even putting it on the table threatens the entire Constitution. America has (to a fault) surrendered freedoms to protect against terrorism; I think they will prove much more willing to tighten gun access if they think it lowers the risk of their kids getting gunned down at school.

How to effectively do that (or if can even be done effectively) is a fair debate, but acting as though it isn't a reasonable question to raise is insane.

Was making a comparison that guns are the only way to kill that you
U seem to beleive.

Where there is a will there is a way. A couple of hand grenades for that matter a few gallons of gas would have done much more damage.

But this post kind of blows your theory out of the water.

Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic

They've already did with assault rifle bans. That did nothing.

All mass murders happen in gun free zones.

Had the school allowed conceal carry on campus who knows if anyone but the bad guy would have been killed.

[cutthemdown]

Obamas speach tonight longed for him to come out and say what he wants to do, but he doesn't have the balls to do it.

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

American won't stand for guns being illegal so why bother talking about it. You can limit guns but all it takes is a handgun to have a massacre.

I don't want them to be illegal, but that doesn't mean we don't need to do a better job of keeping them out of the hands of crazies.

We could start with all the loopholes that allow guns to be sold second hand without background checks. Gun shows, auctions, etc.

We'll never stop crazy folks from getting guns -- doesn't mean we shouldn't work to minimize it.

[Kid A]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Obamas speach tonight longed for him to come out and say what he wants to do, but he doesn't have the balls to do it.

How much **** would he have caught for using a nationally televised memorial service for the victim to explicitly talk about gun control? Plus, I think he realizes there is also an aspect of mental health people are talking about. Even I don' think that was the appropriate time or place to start laying out what legal steps he'd like to see put forward.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

I don't want them to be illegal, but that doesn't mean we don't need to do a better job of keeping them out of the hands of crazies.

We could start with all the loopholes that allow guns to be sold second hand without background checks. Gun shows, auctions, etc.

We'll never stop crazy folks from getting guns -- doesn't mean we shouldn't work to minimize it.

I live in Calif and tighter rules havent stopped big shootings here. But....I can go along with any background check, reasonable waiting period, and reasonable clip sizes. If all Obama wants to do is that then i agree this would be a stupid time to talk about it. If you want to make a change to the Constitution on guns then i think you would have to talk about it now. All my liberal friends in CA want to start the first state procedures to change the Constitution so maybe I am coming from that environment.

nothing but an outright ban on guns, with a collection of all the guns out there could really end gun violence. i do agree though if you did that obviously we would have less gun deaths. That is a reasonable assumption i think. But none of your gun show this, loopholes that will stop these incidents.

Obviously Obama is using the speach to hint at what he wants, or what he plans. Some sort of gun reform that will be meant to make us feel like the govt trying to keep our kids safe.

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

I live in Calif and tighter rules havent stopped big shootings here. But....I can go along with any background check, reasonable waiting period, and reasonable clip sizes. If all Obama wants to do is that then i agree this would be a stupid time to talk about it. If you want to make a change to the Constitution on guns then i think you would have to talk about it now. All my liberal friends in CA want to start the first state procedures to change the Constitution so maybe I am coming from that environment.

nothing but an outright ban on guns, with a collection of all the guns out there could really end gun violence. i do agree though if you did that obviously we would have less gun deaths. That is a reasonable assumption i think. But none of your gun show this, loopholes that will stop these incidents.

Obviously Obama is using the speach to hint at what he wants, or what he plans. Some sort of gun reform that will be meant to make us feel like the govt trying to keep our kids safe.

Never said it would stop them entirely, but it will reduce the number of criminals and crazy folks that can get their hands on guns (and make them available to others). Did you just completely miss that?

[lonestar]

Think they should step up and stop government sanctioned gun selling to cartels.

To take responsibility for that them and only then worry about modifying the constitution.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Think they should step up and stop government sanctioned gun selling to cartels.

I agree. I was against it when Bush started it, and I'm against it while Obama continued it.

[Requiem]

Looks like they need more God in their lives, right?

[Rohirrim]

Unless you are willing to argue that an individual citizen is guaranteed by the 2nd amendment the right to keep anything from a rocket launcher, to a .50 cal auto, to grenades, to atomic weapons (if he can manage to come up with one), then you believe in limitations to the amendment. So where should the line be drawn?

[Meck77]

We need to arm our teachers. It's being proven time and time again that as soon as the response team comes to kill the shooter the shooter turns the gun on himself. Look at the mall shooting in Oregon. The moment a citizen pulled a gun out the shooter shot himself. The citizen didn't even have to fire a shot!

The argument that the police won't know who the shooter is if teachers are walking around schools with guns is bogus also. A good guy will always put his gun down quickly.

20 children shot up in a locked room is ****ing BS. The principal or one of the other teachers could have wasted the bastard within a minute. Instead the a-hole had 10 minutes.

I own a ranch in a small community and it's being discussed to arm several of the experienced teachers who are hunters/ranchers and have experience with guns. I'm sure they will have to go under further training (as they should) but if some son of a b**** walks into my community school the second bullet fired might just be one going into the shooters head.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by Meck77

We need to arm our teachers.

No, we don't.

Why do the RKBA fanatics always provide the "more guns in more hands in more places" canned idiotic response when one of these tragedies occurs?

Should we all be packing all the time everywhere?

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by Meck77

We need to arm our teachers. It's being proven time and time again that as soon as the response team comes to kill the shooter the shooter turns the gun on himself.

The only thing that will accomplish is that the psychos will bring more firepower (e.g. bombs, chemicals, vehicles, etc.) into play. We have to address the disease, not just swat at the the symptoms here.

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

The only thing that will accomplish is that the psychos will bring more firepower (e.g. bombs, chemicals, vehicles, etc.) into play. We have to address the disease, not just swat at the the symptoms here.

So long as you see the 'disease' as mental illness, I would agree. Trying to apply criminal sanction and legislation to a person hell-bent on destroying as many lives as possible before his own is only self-defeating feelgoodism.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Meck77

We need to arm our teachers. It's being proven time and time again that as soon as the response team comes to kill the shooter the shooter turns the gun on himself. Look at the mall shooting in Oregon. The moment a citizen pulled a gun out the shooter shot himself. The citizen didn't even have to fire a shot!

The argument that the police won't know who the shooter is if teachers are walking around schools with guns is bogus also. A good guy will always put his gun down quickly.

20 children shot up in a locked room is ****ing BS. The principal or one of the other teachers could have wasted the bastard within a minute. Instead the a-hole had 10 minutes.

I own a ranch in a small community and it's being discussed to arm several of the experienced teachers who are hunters/ranchers and have experience with guns. I'm sure they will have to go under further training (as they should) but if some son of a b**** walks into my community school the second bullet fired might just be one going into the shooters head.

Give me a break. The Denver cops blew away an old man who was holding a coke can a few years ago. Cell phone? Dead meat. In case you haven't been watching the news, lately, cops are more trigger happy than ever. Some cop in Texas cornered an unarmed suspect after a car chase and shot him 41 times. How many reloads is that? And I'm sure cops get more firearms training than anybody. I doubt the "good guy" would even get the chance to put down his gun.

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

So long as you see the 'disease' as mental illness, I would agree. Trying to apply criminal sanction and legislation to a person hell-bent on destroying as many lives as possible before his own is only self-defeating feelgoodism.

Mental illness is a huge component, but it's not limited to that. What causes this kind of thing isn't just one thing. In some cases it's mental illness, sure, but not all of the violence in our society is due to mental illness.