Shooting at Conn Elementary 27 dead including kids

[swaiy]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Our society is over-medicated, with people being put on mind-altering pills when it really isn't necessary. Not a fan of stuff like that. Do you disagree with the idea that we are over-medicated? A pill for everything! Have six at dinner brah!

I don't disagree nor do I agree. Your opinion is a ridiculously huge generalization. How do you know it isn't necessary for someone to be on medication? Are you a doctor?

It's the line of thinking that perpetuates some of the stigma behind mental illnesses and disorders.

[Old Dude]

I know this is an emotional topic, but let's do our best to keep the conversation civil.

Some of the comments, including rep comments, resulting from this thread are already under review. It wouldn't be a good time for anyone to dig a deeper hole.

[gunns]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Interesting that you pointed this out. I hadn't heard that he had a condition associated with mental health. Wonder how many pills and psychosomatic drugs they pacified him with in order to change him. In my eyes, that is one of the things that is messed up in our society.

Child a little anxious, rambunctious, etc.? No worries parents, we will give them pill after pill to sedate them!

Autism is not a mental illness, it's neurological. Heard that on TV this morning along with parents of autistic kids and a Dr. None of them could believe that Lanza was autistic. I'm not even going to buy into a mental illness as a reason. Along with pills we supply them with mental health excuses for bad behavior. Only the truly retarded are unaware of the result of their actions at times and lack the where with all to plan such an incident.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Pony Boy

Fixed it for you .... I bet you were a tattle-tail in school.......

Was thinking the same thing.

IMO one of those things better either not said or done in private, reply via rep or PM.
Now it just escalates in the open forum with zero need.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by rugbythug

Assume for a second that God prevented every tragedy from occurring. How many generations would it take before not one person alive saw any need for a god? Tops 3.

God made people in his image for his glory. God is not made by man for man's glory.

Well, if that's the case, some of the people are not holding up their end of the bargain, as far as reflecting that "image."

[st.bernard]

Originally Posted by Requiem

You have my stance all wrong. I think there is a lot wrong in our society. To blame it on a lack of "God" in people's lives is ludicrous, simplistic answer to a very complex problem. I was making remarks towards posters who have pressed in this thread that a lack of Christian principle in our daily lives and furthermore, public education system is causing the degradation of the moral fiber in our society. That is a simply silly. It is also a self-righteous way for them to reinforce their own belief system and elevate themselves above non-believers, when without a doubt, they have plenty of work to do as individuals to become better people. (We all do.)

When I grew up, I was pulled around from church to church. I started out going to Catholic mass when I was just a boy. Most my family had a mass exodus from it in the early 90s and we ended up going to a Missouri Synod (sorry if that isn't the right spelling) Lutheran church that was extremely strict. I didn't like it, refused to join confirmation classes with my school friends and when I was a teenager, we jumped to a Methodist church, which I didn't mind at all -- but I just never really understood why I was drug there all the time against my own will.

I have had many bad experiences with church leaders and organizations who have been extremely judgmental in regards to things regarding my family and me personally. I could never understand how such "good" people could do and say such bad things. It was a major turn off.

Nobody is a perfect person, but I am in firm in my belief that most all Christians today use their faith as a trump/carrying card to profess themselves to be of a higher moral standing than others, when they most certainly are not. They are also doing using their faith as a political tool to try and force feed their systemic beliefs onto other people and the general populous. I think that is very dangerous, especially when we live in a country that embodies a separation from church and state.

Suffice it to say, I have quite a few religious friends, and interestingly enough, they are undoubtedly more judgmental than my non-religious counterparts. It is a true observation that can be demonstrably measured based on the course of events that have taken place in my life. My non-religious friends tend to be more kind, more accepting and apt to free and critical thinking skills.

I saw past the mind control of organized religion years ago and will never go back to it. EVER. And no, I wasn't in WA, CO or OR so I didn't get to vote for pot legalization. I definitely would have if given the chance. There is absolutely not reason for the federal government to be wasting time and resources fighting a plant that has been used by humans cross-culturally for thousands of years.

My 2 cents.

I absolutely commend you for getting out of and staying away from the religious folks. Kudos. Legalizing pot is definately the wrong thing though. Same with someone saying that guns are the problem. I can see that some people think that guns just hop up and shoot people all by themselves. Amazing to me. Personal accountability and no repercussions. Just my opinion.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Irish Stout

Crime has done nothing but drop in NYC. I remember hearing a couple years ago that they had the lowest homicides since 1963.

People don't seem to get that there can be gun regulation without gun limitation to law abiding citizens.

The good news is homicide rates are dropping all over not just where guns are banned.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Interesting that you pointed this out. I hadn't heard that he had a condition associated with mental health. Wonder how many pills and psychosomatic drugs they pacified him with in order to change him. In my eyes, that is one of the things that is messed up in our society.

Child a little anxious, rambunctious, etc.? No worries parents, we will give them pill after pill to sedate them!

Ok Tom Cruise.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by gunns

Autism is not a mental illness, it's neurological. Heard that on TV this morning along with parents of autistic kids and a Dr. None of them could believe that Lanza was autistic. I'm not even going to buy into a mental illness as a reason. Along with pills we supply them with mental health excuses for bad behavior. Only the truly retarded are unaware of the result of their actions at times and lack the where with all to plan such an incident.

That isn't really what I said. :/

[Rohirrim]

The other question this tragedy brings up (again, unfortunately) is how do we protect ourselves from monsters like this without sacrificing some of our freedoms? Frankly, I can't think of a way, especially for a guy like this, or that shooter in Oregon last week, who just goes off out of nowhere without any prior issues or run-ins with the law or mental health. Even with rigid gun control, both of these shooters would have made it through any gun licensing hoops. Keep in mind, one of the most restrictive governments in the world, China, has suffered numerous attacks like this over the last few years. The difference being, they don't have access to guns.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by broncobum6162

Just ask the people of NY and Chicago how the ban on weapons has affected the crime rate.........

Ok people of Chicago and NY how has the weapons ban affected your crime rate.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Anyway. Anybody who doesn't question the existence of God after an event like this has neither a brain, nor free will.

Wow. What did the church do to you? Did you get alter boyed in the back room by a defrocked priest? You obviously have more against the church then just i don't believe in a god.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by swaiy

I don't disagree nor do I agree. Your opinion is a ridiculously huge generalization. How do you know it isn't necessary for someone to be on medication? Are you a doctor?

It's the line of thinking that perpetuates some of the stigma behind mental illnesses and disorders.

Thinking he meant prescribed medications are bad, but booze and weed are good.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Thinking he meant prescribed medications are bad, but booze and weed are good.

Think again, retard.

[rugbythug]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Well, if that's the case, some of the people are not holding up their end of the bargain, as far as reflecting that "image."

Very true

[Action]

Originally Posted by sinuous sausage

sure, but plenty of autistic people never develop an urge to go shoot-up an elementary school. what else is at play?

Well, we will never know since the mom and guy is dead. With his type of condition, the mom could have easily said, "I need to go to work, it's more important" and in his head he could have heard "The elementary school is more important than me." And he could have just ran with that. This is just an example, not a speculation... what it really boils down to the responsibility of the parent.

But it's difficult to blame this single parent because there are so many irresponsible parents across the nation, or even world. It's not something that you can easily just say parents need to be more responsible...this isn't the case here either.

I don't know what the solution could be, I'm not in politics or a specialist in this field. I do know this is a case of mental illness, not a case of criminal use of guns.

[Finger Roll]

My Newtown CT family is a mess right now. Three of my cousins ages 20-22 went to High school with him and knew Adam Lanza.

[Action]

Originally Posted by gunns

Autism is not a mental illness, it's neurological. Heard that on TV this morning along with parents of autistic kids and a Dr. None of them could believe that Lanza was autistic. I'm not even going to buy into a mental illness as a reason. Along with pills we supply them with mental health excuses for bad behavior. Only the truly retarded are unaware of the result of their actions at times and lack the where with all to plan such an incident.

... you seem like you're very uninformed. Saying autism isn't a mental illness is actually medically correct, however, it's really gives people the same picture of the situation because how uninformed society is.

To make it simple:

Austism is something kids are BORN with...a disorder.

Mental illness is something people DEVELOP.

In this case, he was AUTISTIC. He can't be given a pill to treat his situation. If you do research in aspergers and some others, you will find that people with these conditions cannot feel for other people, they can only feel for themselves. Literally, if they see someone in pain, they can't feel anything for that person. They CAN'T, not that they don't WANT.

Like I said, anything else is a cop out... and individual that is aware on mental health would understand what this situation is about.

[Action]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Interesting that you pointed this out. I hadn't heard that he had a condition associated with mental health. Wonder how many pills and psychosomatic drugs they pacified him with in order to change him. In my eyes, that is one of the things that is messed up in our society.

Child a little anxious, rambunctious, etc.? No worries parents, we will give them pill after pill to sedate them!

I think at this point there are numerous reports that he had a condition. People describing him in class and the neighbors descriptions were already enough.

It's not something with pills... pills are given to people who can't function without disrupting everyone else or whom have trouble getting through their own day for whatever reason on a daily basis.

[sinuous sausage]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Anyway. Anybody who doesn't question the existence of God after an event like this has neither a brain, nor free will.

okay? I think we're well past impulsive questioning of god. or I thought we were. I do it everyday. it's a running joke between my brother and I to declare "god is dead" every time some mishap happens.

traffic on the interstate? "god is dead"

some dude orders extra sour cream (the devil's milk) on his burrito? "god is dead"

Willis McGahee fumble? "god is dead"

you get the idea. it's basically ridiculing people who blame god or a
think crappy circumstances in the world prove his nonexistence. the circumstances lose the weight of their crappiness once god is ruled out of the picture, because nothing matters otherwise. I don't know if anything matters, so that's why I don't know if there is a god. I do know that if things do matter, there has to be. it's illogical to think you give meaning to your own existence. a nice little warm feeling perhaps, but illogical nonetheless.

[McDman]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Ok people of Chicago and NY how has the weapons ban affected your crime rate.

I think they are on opposite sides of the spectrum. NY is at a low they haven't seen since the 60s and Chicago is still extremely high.

[Action]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Anybody who doesn't question the existence of God after an event like this has neither a brain, nor free will.

So this is what sets people off to question God... not slavery or the Holocaust or all the things that have happened in history... or even history itself.

[sinuous sausage]

310 million people in the US. 200 million guns. sheer lunacy to think we're gonna vet everyone's mental framework and give them the good doctor's stamp of sanity.

protect yourself and your loved ones! also, if your kid is obviously ****ed up like this Adam cat seemed to be, take some goddamn action!

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by sinuous sausage

okay? I think we're well past impulsive questioning of god. or I thought we were. I do it everyday. it's a running joke between my brother and I to declare "god is dead" every time some mishap happens.

traffic on the interstate? "god is dead"

some dude orders extra sour cream (the devil's milk) on his burrito? "god is dead"

Willis McGahee fumble? "god is dead"

you get the idea. it's basically ridiculing people who blame god or a
think crappy circumstances in the world prove his nonexistence. the circumstances lose the weight of their crappiness once god is ruled out of the picture, because nothing matters otherwise. I don't know if anything matters, so that's why I don't know if there is a god. I do know that if things do matter, there has to be. it's illogical to think you give meaning to your own existence. a nice little warm feeling perhaps, but illogical nonetheless.

I wouldn't put what happened at that school in the same sphere as a traffic jam or burrito toppings. Human beings create meaning. It's what they do.

[sinuous sausage]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I wouldn't put what happened at that school in the same sphere as a traffic jam or burrito toppings. Human beings create meaning. It's what they do.

sure, but the argument applies there more than ever. if those children (still tough to type) mean anything more than random conglomerations of gristle and bone, there has to be a god. their meaning must be a priori to their physical manifestation. a material view of the cosmos would logically ascribe the same meaning to them as it does to a wave crashing on a shore or a breeze through the trees, and there is nothing tragic about either of those things. I bet Adam Lanza saw them in the same light, and it might be his view of god in the cosmos that ultimately led him...to...do this.

if your criteria for meaning is "human beings create it," then basically every fit of passion or ill-informed pipe-dream is valid, including a blind belief in god.