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Old 12-13-2012, 08:46 PM   #51
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Needs in my mind go from mlb wr d-line (dt + rush de) oline ( c / g ) if they can upgrade walton or beadles im all for it
That's why I suggested Jones, he can play anywhere on the line. Kuper was snapping some balls to Manning at training camp if I remember correctly. Move him to C and Jones to RG, or put Jones at C, either way it strengthens the interior OLine.

Rush DE to replace Doom? His cap number gets friendlier. I wouldn't mind a SDE and another DT drafted, since I think Wolfe moves inside.

Watch some tape of Arthur Brown, I think you would like him!
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:48 PM   #52
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Yeah Bannan has been better than I gave credit for, I want to upgrade he and Unrein though.

I don't see a small SDE with our scheme.. I have liked what I have seen from your boy Hunt.
I don't know where Hunt goes. I seen him go late 2nd to the Pats in a mock and cried a little inside. Right now I haven't looked that much into that many players. I do know when I see players though. The two West Virginia WR's made me drool. With Martin I see a guy that could bring value late or undrafted. You can never find enough of those types.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:51 PM   #53
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Nooo not replace doom but wolfe or ayers in passing downs. Aside from miller we hardly get rush any where else these past few games. Wolfe is what he is a high motor guy but no speed to the qb only power. He only get coverage sacks and thats ok he can push the pocket theoretically with his power. We need a mid round pick on a one trick pony to rush the passer with speed and bend
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:54 PM   #54
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Stupid..? So you cry about people taking shots at you, now your gonna trash my thread and take a shot at me? Yeah I see what your saying, but I don't agree with it. They will spend most of their cap money, they are in win now. And don't rebuttle me about how PB won't spend money. That money isn't **** to him. You must not comprehend how wealthy one must be to own a football team. They leave cap room, so they can sign/resign players before the following league year and in case of emergency.

I will not respond to anything you type. You are a Hypocrit! You cry that Req and Rev and others bust your balls and take personnel shots, yet you felt compelled to do that to me, and I have not insulted you.
He doesn't know anything about roll over or anything like that. He is a fake troll that claims to be 80 and uses the word "boi". I'm 32 and I don't even use that word. Just place the guy on iggy and don't let him ruin the thread.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:56 PM   #55
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Lmaoooo ^^ iggy
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:03 PM   #56
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The comment was not necessarily a shot at YOU sorry you took it that way.. it was generic comment kind of a comedy wise crack..

As far as dream busting my ball i have the moron on iggy but know he is taking shots at me because i banned him a bunch of times on another forum.. he was a punk then and still is..

I do not share your thought on the win now mentality they had the opportunity to sign a bunch more guys last year, but was not willing to shell out the money.. I do not see the urgency that everyone else does..

I know rich not hat I am, but I know folks like that and yes money does count for them.. they got rich for the most part by being good if not great businessmen so watching how you spend it is important to them..

one of the reasons mikey was fired was because of all his bad personnel decisions so Pat said in an interview at one time he was going to reign in the free spending..

therefore I believe we will not get to the salary cap anytime soon.. Even John at one time made comment about Pat giving him a budget to stay within. now has that changed in the past two years?

I guess we will see..

Respond or not I'm sorry if you took it personally.. Overall your posts are pretty good .. I do not agree with all of them but you would not be the first nor the last in that area..
Johns attempting to rebuild for the short and long term through the draft, and he has done a good job. Win now doesn't mean sell out to him, nor is that the meaning to me, but it does require FAs to fulfill needs and to help increase talent base.

I see more smart moves this offseason, I have suggested Collie, Larry Grant, and Knighton/Branch/Dorsey. Aside from Knighton, all those players are just good quality affordable moves. They increase the talent on the roster, and allow a flexible draft. It's not like I said Wallace, Melton, and Urlacher. But I expect a few FA signings in the offseason. Those moves are championship type moves. To increase depth and talent and not break the bank.

Collie cheap price range, played with Manning.

Knighton played under Del Rio, missed some time this season could lower the price tag.

Grant is a stud MLB behind two of the best in the game, that's a bargain FA signing.

Last edited by Bmore Manning; 12-13-2012 at 09:06 PM..
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:40 PM   #57
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Johns attempting to rebuild for the short and long term through the draft, and he has done a good job. Win now doesn't mean sell out to him, nor is that the meaning to me, but it does require FAs to fulfill needs and to help increase talent base.

I see more smart moves this offseason, I have suggested Collie, Larry Grant, and Knighton/Branch/Dorsey. Aside from Knighton, all those players are just good quality affordable moves. They increase the talent on the roster, and allow a flexible draft. It's not like I said Wallace, Melton, and Urlacher. But I expect a few FA signings in the offseason. Those moves are championship type moves. To increase depth and talent and not break the bank.

Collie cheap price range, played with Manning.

Knighton played under Del Rio, missed some time this season could lower the price tag.

Grant is a stud MLB behind two of the best in the game, that's a bargain FA signing.
I still think you are wrong.

Put your money where your mind/mouth is. What is each of those players gonna cost.
Let's see if they fit into the budget.

This is the same question I always posed when someone came to me with an idea.
Show me the money..
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:56 PM   #58
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He doesn't know anything about roll over or anything like that. He is a fake troll that claims to be 80 and uses the word "boi". I'm 32 and I don't even use that word. Just place the guy on iggy and don't let him ruin the thread.
Let's see never said I was 80. Have always said I was in school when I went to THE first Game in Denver.
That I retired two years ago.

You do the math.

As for Boi it has been used quite a bit on the forum. When I looked it found out it was slang for an ineffmenate young man.

Seemed very apropos for how I use it. Within the forum.
Sorry you do not like what I have to say, but if the truth hurts tuff teats.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:41 AM   #59
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I still think you are wrong.

Put your money where your mind/mouth is. What is each of those players gonna cost.
Let's see if they fit into the budget.

This is the same question I always posed when someone came to me with an idea.
Show me the money..
You know what your right... When I posted on the Colts Forum I was well known for a thread just like this and I used to show the number breakdown.

That requires some solid effort and a computer, my iPhone would take hours to do that. I'll have to show the cap break down, to make you a believer.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:45 AM   #60
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Nooo not replace doom but wolfe or ayers in passing downs. Aside from miller we hardly get rush any where else these past few games. Wolfe is what he is a high motor guy but no speed to the qb only power. He only get coverage sacks and thats ok he can push the pocket theoretically with his power. We need a mid round pick on a one trick pony to rush the passer with speed and bend
Keep in mind, the SDE in our scheme does need to posses size and strength to set/seal the edge for Von. And he needs to be able to push the pocket. Wolfe is solid, but someone more explosive would be nice. We have Hunter who would have been the starter, Ayers, and even Malik Jackson who could all fill that void.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:10 AM   #61
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Malik jackson doesnt look very good so far. Hunter seems like an ayers clone - mild pass rush ability. I realise sde sets the edge and plays the run but on 3rd and long bring in the pass rush specialist
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:21 AM   #62
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Denver Cap Room- $10 Million

Resign- Clady, Colquitt, Vickerson, Carter, Harris, Bruton

Cut- DJ, Gronkowski, Hester, Haine, Moreno

Let Walk- Porter, Willis, Leonhard, Bannan, Unrein, Ball

Retire- Stokely, Brooking

Free Agency- Austin Collie WR

Draft 2013
1. Barrett Jones C
2. Kevin Minter MLB
3. Le'Veon Bell RB
4. Denard RobinsonWR
5. Brandon Williams DT
7. Aaron Hester CB
Why would you let walk cheap/affordable veterans who are contributing in a lot of snaps on defense without any replacements?
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:44 AM   #63
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Malik jackson doesnt look very good so far. Hunter seems like an ayers clone - mild pass rush ability. I realise sde sets the edge and plays the run but on 3rd and long bring in the pass rush specialist
Well that's typically when Von will play at DE...
I'm all for having more pass rushers you can't have enough, but I would think a mid round prospect, who can be groomed.

If Doom went down, Miller would blitz way more, but if Miller goes down.. The scheme would crumble. So having a plathora of pass rushers is ideal.

Hunter was causing quiet the stir this summer, Del Rio intended to start him, and that would most likely be the plan for next season. Jackson is ALWAYS around the football and making plays, I like what I have seen from him and would like to see him play more at SDE and Wolfe at DT.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:46 AM   #64
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Why would you let walk cheap/affordable veterans who are contributing in a lot of snaps on defense without any replacements?
Leonhard will be replaced by Carter..
Bannan by Bobby Williams my draft pick..
Unrein by hopefully a FA DT.. Knighton/Dorsey/Branch.. Maybe Garland from the PS.

I want to upgrade talent..
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:03 AM   #65
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Ziggy Ansah- If he played for 1 more year and continued to improve like he has this last year, he would be a top 5 pick. 6'6, 270, former sprinter. He is a freak of nature that has all the talent in the world. He will likely be taken at the end of the first on talent alone. He is not a pass rusher right now, but might grow into it because of his athleticism. He uses his hands well and I think he would be a great Strong side DE.
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:39 PM   #66
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6. I think the DT draft is potentially extremely deep. Lotulelei and Nix are Top 15 picks. Richardson, Jenkins, and Hankins should all go in the Top 25. Short, the Williams Trio, and Floyd could all go Late 1 to Mid 2. Spence, Logan, and Hill should all go from Late 2 - Mid 3. And if McCullers and Geathers come out, they could go in that range as well. Those two are expected to stay though. You can't trivialize the importance of size to the DT position. Parcells' Planet Theory is a key concept. Especially, if they're talking about eliminating cut blocks. Which would then put the entire onus on size and power in trench play. The fact that so many athletic big men could be available in one draft is a phenomenon, which would make this one of the best DT drafts in history on that factor alone.
As you know...run-stuffing 4-3 NT's aren't the hottest commodities in the world (and shouldn't be). Typically, run-stuffing NT's go in the 2nd round. This is a crappy draft (all talent considered)...and is full of run-stuffing 4-3 NT's. Not all measurable's are known about each player yet, so I will reserve full judgement until after the combine...but as of now, I don't consider any of the DT's in this year's class an IMPACT player.

All initial draft projections are based on the 2012 draft (or an average draft). The 2013 draft is EXTREMELY weak, thus all players will be picked higher than normal.

Star Lotulelei - 6'031" 320 lbs - 22 years old
Senior year stats: 42 tackles, 5.0 sacks, 10 TFL's
Junior year stats: 42 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 9 TFL's

Comparison: Jerel Worthy - 6'021" 308 lbs - 21 years old (#51 overall 2012)
Junior year stats: 31 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 10.5 TFL's
Sophomore year stats: 40 tackles, 4.0 sacks, 8 TFL's

As I stated, we still need to find out how strong Lotulelei is...and how fast in short space, but all his stats indicate, that if he would have came out last year as a junior (as did Jerel Worthy), his stats would have been subpar, and he would have likely been picked at the bottom of the 2nd round.

Where I would pick him: He's got a little better size than Worthy, but probably isn't the penetrator that Worthy is. I would maybe spend a late 1st round pick on him, if he performs well at the combine. With his size, he would be decent as a 2-down run stuffer. A lot depends on his athletic ability (bench, three-cone, arm length).

NFL projection: Average starting 4-3 NT after a couple years of development

Last edited by pricejj; 12-14-2012 at 04:11 PM..
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:48 PM   #67
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College stats, what a end all way to fail at drafting.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:22 PM   #68
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College stats, what a end all way to fail at drafting.
Completely false.


A player has to have production, physical ability to succeed at their position... AND pass the eye test. I do all three for each player I evaluate. I'm only partially done with Lotulelei, but from what I can see, he appears to be a 2-down, run-stuffing 4-3 NT. I don't think he has the talent to make a Pro Bowl...which is what I want to see out of a 1st round pick. However, if he's strong (>30 bench reps), I would may comfortable picking him at the bottom of the 1st round in a poor draft, depending on who else is available.

Pacific Islanders (like him) sometimes have short arms (Paea), but are usually strong, so I will be looking out for that when it becomes available. If Lotulelei has long arms, I would definitely consider him worthy of a late 1st round pick (20-32 range), but his lack of multi-year elite production in college indicates he'll probably just be an average player in the NFL.

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Old 12-14-2012, 04:25 PM   #69
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College stats, what a end all way to fail at drafting.
To everyone in the NFL and college football, Star is a consensus Top 10 selection, probably Top 5. To pricejj, he is barely a first-rounder. Wonder who is ****ed in the head. Odds are he hasn't seen Star play in five full games, yet is willing to make a ridiculously retarded assessment on him. He would think he knows more than people in the NFL. He thinks he has the health care problem all figured out too.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:32 PM   #70
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To everyone in the NFL and college football, Star is a consensus Top 10 selection, probably Top 5. To pricejj, he is barely a first-rounder. Wonder who is ****ed in the head. Odds are he hasn't seen Star play in five full games, yet is willing to make a ridiculously retarded assessment on him. He would think he knows more than people in the NFL. He thinks he has the health care problem all figured out too.
1) I'm sick of your insults, so cut the crap.
2) You think he's better than Dareus (who was a top 5 pick)?
3) It's a super-crappy draft, so all the players will be drafted significantly higher this year, than in other years.
4)My evaluation is only based on production and physical size, so far...still have to complete the other two phases of his evaluation, so lay off.

Put it this way, I don't think Lotulelei is anywhere close to Dareus based on his age/production at similar points in their career. Dareus dominated in the SEC as a So./Jr. in a 3-4. Lotulelei did okay as a Senior in a 4-3 in the PAC-12. Big difference.

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Old 12-14-2012, 04:40 PM   #71
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1) I'm sick of your insults, so cut the crap.
2) You think he's better than Dareus (who was a top 5 pick)?
3) It's a super-crappy draft, so all the players will be drafted significantly higher this year, than in other years.
4)My evaluation is only based on production and physical size, so far...still have to complete the other two phases of his evaluation, so lay off.
Price, there is an abundance of DT talent in this draft... So much better than last seasons!

Star is probably the best DT to come out since Haloti Ngata..
How could you possibly view him as a late first round pick?
I called this kid when I first joined this forum as the stud to watch.. You can probably do a search with my username and "Star".. I am so confident that he will be a star in this league, no pun intended.

What do you base your analysis on?
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:45 PM   #72
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Price, there is an abundance of DT talent in this draft... So much better than last seasons!

Star is probably the best DT to come out since Haloti Ngata..
How could you possibly view him as a late first round pick?
I called this kid when I first joined this forum as the stud to watch.. You can probably do a search with my username and "Star".. I am so confident that he will be a star in this league, no pun intended.

What do you base your analysis on?
All of done so far is check his production and size...next I will evaluate a bunch of his games, last is combine results.

I shouldn't even be commenting on him yet because I don't know everything about him.
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:02 PM   #73
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All of done so far is check his production and size...next I will evaluate a bunch of his games, last is combine results.

I shouldn't even be commenting on him yet because I don't know everything about him.
I just can't fathom your horrible analysis of this MONSTER. He is Nagta 2.0.. If only we were lucky enough to have him...

Luckily Brandon Williams reminds me of Star, just a little more raw, but he will be within our reach because he plays for a smaller school and doesn't get the exposure.
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:19 PM   #74
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1) I'm sick of your insults, so cut the crap.
Stop posting dumb crap and you won't get insults thrown you way. Saying a Top 10 player isn't worth a first rounder just shows how clueless you are. You even admit you are clueless, looking at stat lines and measurables to determine an opinion on a player before you watch them.
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2) You think he's better than Dareus (who was a top 5 pick)?
I was advocating Dareus with our selection over Von due to our hole at DT. Big fan of his. I think Star is better.

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3) It's a super-crappy draft, so all the players will be drafted significantly higher this year, than in other years.
This draft has a lot of good players on the defensive side of the ball. I think it is weak at several positions, very strong in others.

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4)My evaluation is only based on production and physical size, so far...still have to complete the other two phases of his evaluation, so lay off.

Put it this way, I don't think Lotulelei is anywhere close to Dareus based on his age/production at similar points in their career. Dareus dominated in the SEC as a So./Jr. in a 3-4. Lotulelei did okay as a Senior in a 4-3 in the PAC-12. Big difference.
You haven't even watched Star play. Buy a clue.
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:28 PM   #75
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Haloti Ngata - 6'041" 338 lbs., 37 bench reps and long arms (12th overall pick 2006)
61 tackles, 3 sacks as a Senior (huge jump in tackle production from his Junior year, when he had 46)

Star Lotulelei - 6'031" 320 lbs.
42 tackles, 5 sacks as a Senior (same tackle production in Senior and Junior years, which suggests he may have plateaued)

Like I said, in a normal year, Lotulelei would be a late 1st round pick (20-32).

In 2012, Cox, Poe, and Brockers, all would still have been picked before Lotulelei had he come out that year.

Can you imagine their stats if they all stayed in college one more year and came out in 2013 like Lotulelei? They still would have been picked before him.

If video shows that he's destroying guys off the ball on a consistent basis, then he's definitely worthy of a 1st round pick. But saying he's "the best DT since Ngata" is a little off.

Raji, Watt, Dareus, and Fairley were all better DT prospects than Lotulelei without question.

Raji - 2-gapping NT with great penetration
Watt - Stat killer in college, physical freak DT/DE
Dareus - 2-gapping DT with great penetration as an underclassmen in the 3-4
Fairley - Uncanny foot speed, and elite stats as a 1-gapping UT in the 4-3.
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