Shooting at Conn Elementary 27 dead including kids

[baja]

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

Homicide and general crime rates were basically the same in the 50s as they are today. If there's one thing my degrees in criminology have taught me is pretty much the only thing that's changed is the media coverage and the Internet.

I find that hard to believe.

There must be statics on that.

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by Crushaholic

24-year old Ryan Lanza...

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/12/14...ld-ryan-lanza/

Surprise surprise, another angry white guy. WTF is wrong with you people!!!!!!

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by CEH

Man in China today stabbed 22 school children.
Children it's just sicking to think this kids had no chance

Yeah, but most of them survived... Huge difference between gun and knife violence.

[elsid13]

Just reported that the children were killed execution style, after the ****er shot his mother. WTF

[Swedish Extrovert]

[QUOTE=tesnyde;3753260]

Originally Posted by Mightysmurf

I just wanted to make one point and then I'm out....

You don't even have to look at Europe or Asia. You can just look at the US itself, and consider that the states with the higher violent crime rates tend to be the more religious ones.[/

Cities with highest violent crime rates:
1 Detroit
2 St. Louis
3 0akland (figures)
4 Memphis
5 Birmingham
6 Atlanta
7 Baltimore
8 Stockton
9 Cleveland
10 Buffalo

Not exactly a list of cities exclusive to the Bible Belt states.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfi...gerous-cities/

St. Louis, Memphis, Birmingham, Atlanta - that's four of the top six - are in Bible Belt states.

[tesnyde]

Originally Posted by baja

I find that hard to believe.

There must be statics on that.

Freakenomics had an interesting chapter on the manipulation of the crime for political gain. I'd recommend it. They also take further with many experts chiming in...

http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/06/...tinue-to-fall/

[mkporter]

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

how many more gun laws do you want? As we take guns out of law abiding hands, it is free reign for the criminals. Let me know when a criminal is going to listen to a gun law and therefore, no longer be that criminal?

Where do criminals get guns? If they are buying them from stores or gun shows, then stricter laws help. If they are stealing them from law-abiding individuals, then having fewer guns in the hands of law abiding individuals helps.

Since you think fewer guns is not the answer, is more guns the answer? Is 2x the gun ownership rate of the rest of the world not enough? Or did we magically land on exactly the right number of guns in his country?

[Kid A]

Originally Posted by tesnyde

I'm a Christian and high school principal. On a personal level, I believe teaching family values would be a plus, however, the leading indicator for a student to be a success academically, socially and healthy is a complete family ; mommy and daddy still together and involved in their kids lives. If you want to take it a step further, entact families who actually have sit down dinners with each other have the highest rate of successful and well adjusted kids. So guys and gals stay together and have dinner together if you really want to provide the best statistical chance for your kids to be successful academically, socially, and healthy. The leading indicator for collegiate success is the formation/joining of a study group. College kids who join a study group have the highest statistical chance of graduating.

I totally agree on the importance of strengthening the family unit and everything you said. I just don't agree with cutthemdown that "getting God back in schools" is the solution to such a deep problem; that seems like a simplistic, politically convenient stance to take when so much evidence points to the issues arising from broken homes.

Now, even as a non-believer, I do see and respect how religion can play a role in a healthy family life. I just don't think rolling back laws to require a morning prayer in public schools is going to reverse damage of broken marriages, or violence in our culture as a whole. If religious people want to advocate using God to heal the problems in this nation, they should start by working on a community level to create marriages that last and healthy parent-child relationships, not picking a political fight to get the 10 Commandments posted in front of federal buildings.

[tesnyde]

[QUOTE=Mightysmurf;3753278]

Originally Posted by tesnyde

St. Louis, Memphis, Birmingham, Atlanta - that's four of the top six - are in Bible Belt states.

Two of the top three incuding number one are not in the Bible Belt. All banter aside, the issue is one for many locations and is not isolated to just "religious" states.

[Prodigal19]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

I think our country has more of a religious history, more built on the principals of that religion. Then also I believe in the EU they aren't the melting pot as much as we are. It's not easy mixing together all these different cultures, different religions, different socio economic conditions into a smooth running country.

Look at France they are starting to have a lot of problems. Mostly because as the immigrant population grows and economy is stagnant you get problems.

Obviously it takes more the school prayer. But you can't argue as America gets less religious we are also getting more violent. A lot of those European countries people hold up for example dont let immigrants in unless they have money. Hard to compare then to us. How about we stick to comapring countries with at least 150 million people. Way more logical IMO.

Sure we can. Americas violent crime rate was at an all time high in the early 1990s and have dropped by about 35% since then, with the murder rate dropping nearly 50%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

In that same time period America has become quite a bit less religious.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/128276/in...-identity.aspx

It's pretty ridiculous try to draw together any sort of causation here but its even more ridiculous when the actual data correlation does not align with what you are stating.

[maher_tyler]

Originally Posted by baja

Sadly it is not that simple.

So many strong forces moving this, violence on TV, video games, movies, broken families and yes moral teaching. Availability of weapons. All contribute. Even the way the story is being covered contributes. The worst part is this seems to be occurring with more and more frequency. Unfortunately this will result in more fear based legislation rather than looking closely at the root problems and correcting them. Sad day for us all. God help us.

I've watched countless amounts of violent TV shows/movies along with countless hours of Call of Duty and other violent video games. I have never gone to a school, mall etc and shot anyone. The thought that people do this because of the violence they see in a video game or on TV is a little ignorant. Parents need to do better jobs of seeing that maybe something isn't right. For someone to do something this crazy you would have to think their are some signs.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by mkporter

Where do criminals get guns? If they are buying them from stores or gun shows, then stricter laws help. If they are stealing them from law-abiding individuals, then having fewer guns in the hands of law abiding individuals helps.

Since you think fewer guns is not the answer, is more guns the answer? Is 2x the gun ownership rate of the rest of the world not enough? Or did we magically land on exactly the right number of guns in his country?

! Criminals don't buy from stores. They don't want their name associated with a gun. I was stating people cannot use them to protect themselves or others in public. That is what my post was stating.

[maher_tyler]

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Prodigal19

Sure we can. Americas violent crime rate was at an all time high in the early 1990s and have dropped by about 35% since then, with the murder rate dropping nearly 50%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

In that same time period America has become quite a bit less religious.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/128276/in...-identity.aspx

It's pretty ridiculous try to draw together any sort of causation here but its even more ridiculous when the actual data correlation does not align with what you are stating.

Sorry you forgot to add in all the babies abortions kill.

[edog24]

Originally Posted by baja

Sadly it is not that simple.

So many strong forces moving this, violence on TV, video games, movies, broken families and yes moral teaching. Availability of weapons. All contribute. Even the way the story is being covered contributes. The worst part is this seems to be occurring with more and more frequency. Unfortunately this will result in more fear based legislation rather than looking closely at the root problems and correcting them. Sad day for us all. God help us.

I agree with you. I really think desensitizing everyone now has something to do with it, along with the ease of getting the weapons. The access people have to methods of how to pull something like this off (the internet), along with the weapons required to do so, is really a frightening scenario. I am glad I didn't have access to this amount of information when I was younger, it would have been overwhelming.

How about mandatory 2 year enlistment into the military? That way young kids (I'm talking 18-21 year olds) get to learn that shooting guns is not some fun video game, but in reality you are dealing with human life and once you pull the trigger, the consequences.

[baja]

Originally Posted by maher_tyler

I've watched countless amounts of violent TV shows/movies along with countless hours of Call of Duty and other violent video games. I have never gone to a school, mall etc and shot anyone. The thought that people do this because of the violence they see in a video game or on TV is a little ignorant. Parents need to do better jobs of seeing that maybe something isn't right. For someone to do something this crazy you would have to think their are some signs.

My point is it is a contributing factor. Most likely you are a well balanced mentally healthy individual, not everyone is. It is those ill people that are most influenced by countless hours of violence available along with the other issues I mentioned. Like I said there is no easy answer. I sure don't have one.

[Kid A]

Originally Posted by Prodigal19

Sure we can. Americas violent crime rate was at an all time high in the early 1990s and have dropped by about 35% since then, with the murder rate dropping nearly 50%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

In that same time period America has become quite a bit less religious.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/128276/in...-identity.aspx

It's pretty ridiculous try to draw together any sort of causation here but its even more ridiculous when the actual data correlation does not align with what you are stating.

Exactly. The US (along with most the world) has gotten significantly less violent over the last century. These mass shootings are an outlier phenomenon to a generally very good trend for our society. Which only increases the need for us to figure out why they happen and how best to stop them.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by maher_tyler

I've watched countless amounts of violent TV shows/movies along with countless hours of Call of Duty and other violent video games. I have never gone to a school, mall etc and shot anyone. The thought that people do this because of the violence they see in a video game or on TV is a little ignorant. Parents need to do better jobs of seeing that maybe something isn't right. For someone to do something this crazy you would have to think their are some signs.

what if violent imagary like video games only effects 1 in 10 thousand brains though? So you could have tons of examples of kids who played them with no problems, and it could still be a problem.

[tesnyde]

[QUOTE=Kid A;3753284]I totally agree on the importance of strengthening the family unit and everything you said. I just don't agree with cutthemdown that "getting God back in schools" is the solution to such a deep problem; that seems like a simplistic, politically convenient stance to take when so much evidence points to the issues arising from broken homes.


I think many of the statements here today are over simplistic such as "Get a God back in school", this is a religion problem, this is just an American problem and Europe has it better, and crime rates saying we're just like the fifties. It's world wide, for every religious variable there exists a counter secular issue, and crime rates are highly political and manipulated so who knows what is true.

What I do know is there a lot of lost, isolated, scared, and scarred people out there. Religious freaks and secular sickos. You want good kids and citizens be a good parent and citizen yourself. Take care of your kids. Stay with your wives and visa versa. Have sit down dinners and asked your kids how they are doing. Ask the neighborhood kids how they are doing. let them know Being kind is cool. Say hi to your neighbors and strangers. Volunteer at your local schools. Read a book to some students. Fellas, how about joining Watch D.O.G.S. and if your kids school doesn't have it, bring it to the principal attention. Google it. It's a program that promotes dads, granddad, and other male figures involvement in schools, and school safety. You guys are mad, then lets do something. How about mentoring in schools. Our choice if we go to church or not, where we live, if we believe in gun rights, whatever, but its also our choice how we take care of kids and our neighbors. Get mad and do something about this crap.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

In our country, our main religions don't teach that and we were better off back in the 50's when we were all Christians. But now we teach kids Christianity dumb, hey kid would you believe in a spaghetti monster you can't see.

then people are surprised when kids turn into evil little things and shoot up a school.

God knows, Christianity has a long and hallowed history of peace and tranquility.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Kid A

Exactly. The US (along with most the world) has gotten significantly less violent over the last century. These mass shootings are an outlier phenomenon to a generally very good trend for our society. Which only increases the need for us to figure out why they happen and how best to stop them.

So has the majority of the world. That doesn't mean the US doesn't suffer from significantly more gun violence than all the other developed nations.

[Prodigal19]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Sorry you forgot to add in all the babies abortions kill.

Im pretty sure you realize you are being ridiculous but Ill entertain you anyways.
Abortion rates have been dropping for the past 30 years.

http://www.mccl.org/us-abortion-stats.html
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/poli...husabrate.html

[Lycan]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

We need to get prayer and God back into our schools. The kids lack a moral compass and the teachings of Jesus Christ about our lord would help. We had guns back in the 50's and this studd didn't happen. The only real difference in schools since then is lack of religion. How many private religious schools have had these sorts of problems? I think i remember a couple but for sure not as many. By teaching kids about the love of Jesus Christ you can give them faith and hope. Something which we lack more and more of each decade.

To turn this into an excuse to force your religion onto people is just sick man.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by mkporter

Where do criminals get guns? If they are buying them from stores or gun shows, then stricter laws help. If they are stealing them from law-abiding individuals, then having fewer guns in the hands of law abiding individuals helps.

Since you think fewer guns is not the answer, is more guns the answer? Is 2x the gun ownership rate of the rest of the world not enough? Or did we magically land on exactly the right number of guns in his country?

If someone wants to kill they will find a gun. They aren't going to just bottle up their evil and say "**** it. I can't find a gun so I guess I won't shoot anyone."

[rugbythug]

If I knew that getting rid of my guns would save a kids life I would. However currently I'm thinking it will save more if I have them. I know where they are and what they are for.