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Old 12-14-2012, 01:45 PM   #76
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Another relative, who was not identified, was found shot to death at a home in Newtown, officials said.
Lanza’s younger brother was being questioned to see if he knew anything about the mass killing, NBC News reported.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:47 PM   #77
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The worst mass school murder in American history took place on May 18,1927 in Bath Township, Mich., when a former school board member set off three bombs that killed 45 people.
Yeah. Read this too.

But guns are the problem.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:47 PM   #78
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Oh I get the import, but it's still cynical and simplistic. Humans aren't rats, and while the economic sustainability is deplorable, I'm not sure that the close quarters of people had much to do with the shooting. Perhaps in our growing number we can neglect the margins and let crazy grow unfettered, but that's a shame not erased by the fact there are too many of us.

That said, yes, I generally agree, things are ****ed.
No. We're not rats. Our reactions are probably far more complex, and maybe more individualized, but the guy who shot up the mall in Oregon the other day was another twenty something who had reached a dead end. No doubt we'll hear the same thing about this guy, that all his friends are shocked, he's never done anything violent, and nobody foresaw him doing such a thing.

Our society is not working.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:51 PM   #79
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Our society is not working.
Agreed. But maybe there's no such thing as a 'working' society; they'll always be a balance of detriments.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:55 PM   #80
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Really don't think now is an appropriate time or place to have this conversation. The issue is frequency of said attacks occurring in this country when compared to many of the countries mentioned (and the number of people compared to the population killed in this fashion). But again, a time and a place for everything.
I didn't bring up other countries. It was already on the table and I was just responding. See posts 28, 35, 38, and 39. I'm trying to understand the boundaries stated in your post and projected at me but I don't. My point was this...it is a shared human problem, and in reference to your statement, regardless of quantifiable data, frequency, or other numbers, it's an international epidemic with real people that is happening in many countries. Schools world wide are facing issues about safety. Parents send their most precious possessions to people in my role and I take that very serious, as well as other educators regardless of borders. Countries' education systems are always compared and rated against each other in all areas including safety and academics but usually without all the facts. I was adding facts to help develop a better understanding.

I work with SROs and other principals everyday, I have presented at conferences with them, and we spend time studying these tragedies, particularly Columbine and Beslan, and go through table top exercises. We know this is a problem that victimizes people across bounderies, cultures, and varying degrees of gun laws. Its complex and each time is gut wrenching.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:55 PM   #81
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A law enforcement official says the suspect is 24-year-old Ryan Lanza and that his younger brother is being held for questioning as a possible second shooter. The law enforcement official says the boys' mother, Nancy Lanza, works at the school as a teacher.


Read more: Connecticut school shooting: At least 27 dead, including 18 children - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...#ixzz2F3ux6160
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:56 PM   #82
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Photos: Connecticut school shooting

The official also said Ryan
Lanza's girlfriend and another friend are missing in New Jersey.

Read more: Connecticut school shooting: At least 27 dead, including 18 children - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...#ixzz2F3v5e9WL
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:56 PM   #83
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Yeah. Read this too.

But guns are the problem.
Yeah, the guy with the bombs would have totally been stopped if more people were carrying bombs.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:00 PM   #84
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I don't even know what to say. What happened to our society? Where does it end? How do you fix this?
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:01 PM   #85
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We need to get prayer and God back into our schools. The kids lack a moral compass and the teachings of Jesus Christ about our lord would help. We had guns back in the 50's and this studd didn't happen. The only real difference in schools since then is lack of religion. How many private religious schools have had these sorts of problems? I think i remember a couple but for sure not as many. By teaching kids about the love of Jesus Christ you can give them faith and hope. Something which we lack more and more of each decade.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:05 PM   #86
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I don't even know what to say. What happened to our society? Where does it end? How do you fix this?
Society went godless. We fix it by getting religion back into schools.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:07 PM   #87
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1) We really need to put a lot more emphasis (and a lot less stigma) on mental health care in this country. Seeing a therapist should be as normal as seeing your primary care physician. I have been seeing one regularly for the past year or so, and it has been very helpful, although I still feel some shame for doing so. (Even though I understand there is no reason for that) Most of these horrific incidents could have been averted had these people sought/been provided help.
I recently heard about a kid who is about 10. His parents cannot handle him, and his teachers are having major problems dealing with him. He's not a big kid, but he bullies everybody. The kid has even threatened teachers. When the father gets on his case, the kid gives the father the evil eye, and has even threatened him. The kid is on meds, but the parents can't really afford anything more. The person telling me the story, who is in med school, said that this kid has the make up of a future criminal.

It's kind of scary. We really don't know who we are dealing with.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:09 PM   #88
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Society went godless. We fix it by getting religion back into schools.
Is this serious? Because I can point to a whole section of the world in which religion is the source of violence

There's no answer here, unfortunately. Society has grown quicker than we know how to deal with it. I honestly think part of the problem is social media and the 24/7 newscycle. we're constantly being fed information. Obviously those things have plenty of positives too, but he's an example of a negative
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:10 PM   #89
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Society went godless. We fix it by getting religion back into schools.
That's not going to happen. Family values and Christian beliefs are being snuffed out by the offended.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:11 PM   #90
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:14 PM   #91
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Is this serious? Because I can point to a whole section of the world in which religion is the source of violence

There's no answer here, unfortunately. Society has grown quicker than we know how to deal with it. I honestly think part of the problem is social media and the 24/7 newscycle. we're constantly being fed information. Obviously those things have plenty of positives too, but he's an example of a negative
In our country, our main religions don't teach that and we were better off back in the 50's when we were all Christians. But now we teach kids Christianity dumb, hey kid would you believe in a spaghetti monster you can't see.

then people are surprised when kids turn into evil little things and shoot up a school.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:14 PM   #92
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Awful. As a father, it makes me sick to my stomach.

Two thoughts (the first being more important, IMO):
1) We really need to put a lot more emphasis (and a lot less stigma) on mental health care in this country. Seeing a therapist should be as normal as seeing your primary care physician. I have been seeing one regularly for the past year or so, and it has been very helpful, although I still feel some shame for doing so. (Even though I understand there is no reason for that) Most of these horrific incidents could have been averted had these people sought/been provided help.

2) I'm not an anti-gun crusader, but we do really have an issue with guns in this country. There are 300 million guns in private hands in the US. Far and away more per capita than any where else in the world:

Guns per 100 people (Top ten countries):
United States 88.8
Serbia 58.2
Yemen 54.8
Switzerland 45.7
Cyprus 36.4
Saudi Arabia 35
Iraq 34.2
Finland 32
Uruguay 31.8
Sweden 31.6

Every time an incident like this come up, I see an argument that, "It could have been prevented had some one else had a gun to stop them." I'm sorry, but the answer can not be that we need _more_ guns. We need fewer guns, and fewer assault weapons out there, and stricter checks to getting them (no gun show loopholes, etc). It isn't going to stop all of these things from happening, but it is going to prevent some of them. We should be working towards creating a more responsible gun culture instead of creating a larger and more heavily armed gun culture.

My heart goes out to all the parents in Connecticut today. I don't have the words.
Really interesting to see Sweden on that list, considering their low crime rate.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:14 PM   #93
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Worth noting, none of those kids in China died, only wounded. Terrible incident to be sure, proof there are sick people all over, but we also have a clear case of two men setting out to kill a bunch of kids, only one of them had access to a semi-automatic.

Guns are simply many many times more effective at killing people than knives. Ignoring this fact, even if you do ultimately come down on the side of defending current gun rights, is insane. When a sick person has an outburst and decides to attack a school in a country where it is hard to access guns vs a country that does everything it can to make that easy...the results speak for themselves.
Guns may be more effective but I could also hit a farm store buy a 50 gallon drum of fertilizer and mix with diesel fuel and create quite the bomb. It's failed parenting and sick people that kill people not guns, knives etc.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:15 PM   #94
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In our country, our main religions don't teach that and we were better off back in the 50's when we were all Christians. But now we teach kids Christianity dumb, hey kid would you believe in a spaghetti monster you can't see.

then people are surprised when kids turn into evil little things and shoot up a school.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:16 PM   #95
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Today's tragedy reminded me of a quote from author, Donald Miller, in his book "Searching for God Knows What." For me, it helps explain why evil like this exists in our world. Maybe it will make sense to you too.

I happened to see Larry King interview Billy Graham shortly after the shootings at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. I had read an article the previous month about violent video games and their effects on the minds of children, desensitizing them to the act of killing. Larry King asked Billy Graham what was wrong with the world, and how such a thing as Columbine could happen. I knew, because Billy Graham was an educated man, he had read the same article I had read, and I began calculating his answer for him, that violence begets violence, and that we live in a culture desensitized to the beauty of human life and the sanctity of creation. But Billy Graham did not blame video games. Billy Graham looked Larry King in the eye and said, 'Thousands of years ago, a young couple lived in a garden called Eden, and God placed a tree in the Garden and told them not to eat from the tree...' And I knew in my soul he was right.



We need to pray for those affected families and our depraved world!
RIP
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:17 PM   #96
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In our country, our main religions don't teach that and we were better off back in the 50's when we were all Christians. But now we teach kids Christianity dumb, hey kid would you believe in a spaghetti monster you can't see.

then people are surprised when kids turn into evil little things and shoot up a school.
I was never a christian, I was raised athiest, all my friends are basically the same, not one of them is a criminal.

Most mideastern terrorists cite God when they carry out their work.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:18 PM   #97
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That's not going to happen. Family values and Christian beliefs are being snuffed out by the offended.
Some call it seperation of church and state but the result is people without the moral center we used to rely on. People are all about being politically correct and tolerant but have lost their way when it comes to god. They don't realize that without god when people hit rock bottom they have nothing. The state will not help you but god he can change your life.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:18 PM   #98
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Really interesting to see Sweden on that list, considering their low crime rate.
A lot of those #'s come from the fact that Sweden used to have compulsory military service.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:20 PM   #99
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We need to get prayer and God back into our schools. The kids lack a moral compass and the teachings of Jesus Christ about our lord would help. We had guns back in the 50's and this studd didn't happen. The only real difference in schools since then is lack of religion. How many private religious schools have had these sorts of problems? I think i remember a couple but for sure not as many. By teaching kids about the love of Jesus Christ you can give them faith and hope. Something which we lack more and more of each decade.
Then why don't Western Europe (which is far more secular and stern about separating church and state) or Asia (they don't worship our God at all) have a problem with school shootings? I don't begrudge you looking for a cause, but I think it's more complicated (and less convenient) than a change in school prayer policy.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:20 PM   #100
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Today's tragedy reminded me of a quote from author, Donald Miller, in his book "Searching for God Knows What." For me, it helps explain why evil like this exists in our world. Maybe it will make sense to you too.

I happened to see Larry King interview Billy Graham shortly after the shootings at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. I had read an article the previous month about violent video games and their effects on the minds of children, desensitizing them to the act of killing. Larry King asked Billy Graham what was wrong with the world, and how such a thing as Columbine could happen. I knew, because Billy Graham was an educated man, he had read the same article I had read, and I began calculating his answer for him, that violence begets violence, and that we live in a culture desensitized to the beauty of human life and the sanctity of creation. But Billy Graham did not blame video games. Billy Graham looked Larry King in the eye and said, 'Thousands of years ago, a young couple lived in a garden called Eden, and God placed a tree in the Garden and told them not to eat from the tree...' And I knew in my soul he was right.



We need to pray for those affected families and our depraved world!
RIP
well we can't argue with such hard scientific fact
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