Offseason Plan 1.0

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

Larry Warford ^ is the only OG I have read up about so far in the up coming draft and that is only because one of the sites had us projected to pick him. He is a large guy, I really don't remember the last time Denver had a OG that big. I read that he didn't allow a sack all year in the SEC which is very impressive.

I don't think he's around when we are on the clock for our second pick.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Denver Cap Room- $10 Million

Resign- Clady, Colquitt, Vickerson, Carter, Harris, Bruton

Cut- DJ, Gronkowski, Hester, Haine, Moreno

Let Walk- Porter, Willis, Leonhard, Bannan, Unrein, Ball

Retire- Stokely, Brooking

Free Agency- Austin Collie WR

Draft 2013
1. Barrett Jones C
2. Kevin Minter MLB
3. Le'Veon Bell RB
4. Denard RobinsonWR
5. Brandon Williams DT
7. Aaron Hester CB

since most of those guys are on one year contracts where are you going to get the money to resign all those players.?

10 mil is Clady alone..

if you cut Unrein and Bannan who is going to backup the DL?

BTW just because we have cap room does not mean that Pat is going to spend it all either.. He has given John a Budget to stay in.. Pretty sure it is not teh full cap value..

[pricejj]

Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan

Thoughts:

1. Clady will definitely be resigned.

Yes

Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan

3. Colquitt, Ball, Carter, Siliga, Unrein are Restricted Free Agents, all should be back. I GREATLY expect Siliga to replace Bannan and Unrein to replace Vickerson, with a draft pick filling out depth.

Vickerson and Bannan will be resigned. I would expect a high draft pick (2nd rounder) to replace Ty Warren.

Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan

4. Agree that Moreno is defnitely gone. 3.4m cap hit, which is a million more than McGahee. He's not going to restructure, he'll want to test Free Agency after finishing strong this year. In a crappy RB market, he'll get paid by someone.

I think Moreno will be back. He has a $3.4M cap number, but only $1.7M salary (has the bonus already been paid?). He is showing his worth. If he can get us to the AFCCG...he's every bit worth his salary.

Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan

5. I doubt Stokley retires. I think we'll draft a slot WR for him to train for a year at least. From all accounts, Stokley is enjoying himself and feels fine. He's not rich enough to retire early when he could re-up for another million next season. I definitely expect a slot WR in the first four rounds of the draft though.

I would expect the Broncos to draft an outside WR (not a slot). Manning is highly comfortable with Decker in the slot (he's like Collie). You are right, Stokley will back.

Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan

6. They probably do let Willis go, but we've really invested a lot of money and time in his training over the last few years. Austin Collie would make sense as a replacement.

There won't be enough room to draft a WR and sign one too.

Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan

7. I don't think there is any chance Kevin Minter can be had in the late 2nd. One, he's too good and should go late 1st. Two, if he thinks he won't go Round 1 or maybe tip top of the 2nd, he won't declare for the draft. So, getting him in late round 2 seems like a 0% probability.

Minter is NOT better than DJ Williams. Replacing DJ with Minter would make the Defense worse. Not a good idea.

Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan

8. Don't understand Barrett Jones. Walton was playing well before he got hurt. Blake is his backup. At OG, we have two solid starters, though we do need depth better than Ramirez. That being said, Elway has said early draft picks need to be immediate impact players, so we're not drafting depth in Round 1. You could do Minter in Round 1 and take an OG in Round 2 such as Dallas Thomas or Larry Warford.

If Kuper's joint is messed up, he's toast. We do not know the extent of the injury, and how it affects his mobility...it hasn't looked good. Beadles gets manhandled often. Jones is an elite guard...and may be the only elite player remaining on the board when the Broncos pick.

Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan

9. I don't think Le'Veon is realistic for us. I do think he'll come out, but the only way he falls to the 3rd round is if he runs a 4.65 40. And if he does that, Fox won't want him. He does like big backs as part of a platoon, but they have always been pretty fast from DeShaun Foster to Jonathan Stewart.

I expect them to take a 4th to 6th round RB to replace Lance Ball. Ronnie Hillman is much better than you think. McGahee and Moreno are more than adequate and cheap.

Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan

10. This is an insanely deep DT draft, but Brandon Williams will be long, long gone by the 5th Round. Some scouts have a 2nd Round grade on him, and there's not many 6'2, 325 lb men that can do what he does. In a weaker DT draft, he'd be a sleeper late 1st round pick.

It's not as deep a DT class as you would think. Kawann Short will be 24. Sylvester Williams will be 25. Jerel Worthy (#51 overall 2012) is actually over a full year younger than Kawann Short. Star Lotulelei is average for a 23 year old, Hankins is an underperformer, and so is Jarvis Jenkins. Sheldon Richardson is the only DT who I would consider with a 1st round grade in this draft class, and he is 22 (same class as Fletcher Cox). Everybody else (Hankins, Lotulelei, Jenkins, Short, Williams) truly deserves a 2nd round grade based on age and/or production. Last years class was actually more productive and younger (though they lacked humongous size).

Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan

11. Denard Robinson as a slot WR kind of makes some sense, but I think his future is more like Percy Harvin or Randall Cobb. Those two are moved all over the place and do some of their best work outside. I'm not sure Manning wants that type of player, I think he wants a traditional slot guy working the seam. Not sure that's ever going to be Denard. And I think we'll want a more immediate impact slot guy than Robinson, his training and development would probably take 3-4 years ala Julian Edelman.

I think they will stay away from slot in the draft, because Decker can fill that role. I believe they take a shot at a #2WR (Pierre Garcon type) in the 3rd or the 4th round).

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by lonestar

since most of those guys are on one year contracts where are you going to get the money to resign all those players.?

10 mil is Clady alone..

if you cut Unrein and Bannan who is going to backup the DL?

BTW just because we have cap room does not mean that Pat is going to spend it all either.. He has given John a Budget to stay in.. Pretty sure it is not teh full cap value..

Well cutting DJ, Moreno, and others will open up cap room, so will not resigning others. I know Clady will be a large cap hit, sometimes you have to spend money to improve especially in win now mode.

Wolfe will play inside with big Vick, we probably resign Silga who will be cheap, I have them drafting a stud DT, Malik Jackson is still on the roster, Garland on PS, and a veteran could be signed. Run stuffers are a dime a dozen, Bannan is playing solid, but he can be upgraded, and people just really like Unrein.. but he's not so good.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Well cutting DJ, Moreno, and others will open up cap room, so will not resigning others. I know Clady will be a large cap hit, sometimes you have to spend money to improve especially in win now mode.

Wolfe will play inside with big Vick, we probably resign Silga who will be cheap, I have them drafting a stud DT, Malik Jackson is still on the roster, Garland on PS, and a veteran could be signed. Run stuffers are a dime a dozen, Bannan is playing solid, but he can be upgraded, and people just really like Unrein.. but he's not so good.

Cutting dj saves I'm guessing 6 after his residual signing bonus is added to the mix.

Moreno will be back unless they bring in a rookie and somehow is unseated. Which is probably an even Steven money issue after KM residual signing bonus is dealt with so that outs you at about a plus 4.5.

If the resign Clady which IMO they will not. Since he is neither elite like some hope he will be nor will the money that he will want and probably get elsewhere fit into that 10 mil cap room you started with.

BTW run stuffers are not a dime a dozen, if they had been we would have been able to fix that issue we have had for over a decade. The first true one we brought in was Bunkley and did did not come cheap.

So please get over that notion.
As for the comment Bannan can be upgraded absolutely but it will cost a lot more to do so, since that's another few mil. You have run out of money without signing any other folks OR the rookies.

Oh well back to the drawing boards AGAIN.

[g6matty]

Clady deserves top 5 money he gave up one sack all year when manning held on the ball too long. You really have a thing for pushing our best players out of town and hoping the under dog succeeds. You once said youre happy with never drafting a WR again and think its best to sign guys off practice squads and UFA . what kind of **** is that

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Originally Posted by pricejj

Yes



Vickerson and Bannan will be resigned. I would expect a high draft pick (2nd rounder) to replace Ty Warren.



I think Moreno will be back. He has a $3.4M cap number, but only $1.7M salary (has the bonus already been paid?). He is showing his worth. If he can get us to the AFCCG...he's every bit worth his salary.



I would expect the Broncos to draft an outside WR (not a slot). Manning is highly comfortable with Decker in the slot (he's like Collie). You are right, Stokley will back.



There won't be enough room to draft a WR and sign one too.



Minter is NOT better than DJ Williams. Replacing DJ with Minter would make the Defense worse. Not a good idea.



If Kuper's joint is messed up, he's toast. We do not know the extent of the injury, and how it affects his mobility...it hasn't looked good. Beadles gets manhandled often. Jones is an elite guard...and may be the only elite player remaining on the board when the Broncos pick.



I expect them to take a 4th to 6th round RB to replace Lance Ball. Ronnie Hillman is much better than you think. McGahee and Moreno are more than adequate and cheap.



It's not as deep a DT class as you would think. Kawann Short will be 24. Sylvester Williams will be 25. Jerel Worthy (#51 overall 2012) is actually over a full year younger than Kawann Short. Star Lotulelei is average for a 23 year old, Hankins is an underperformer, and so is Jarvis Jenkins. Sheldon Richardson is the only DT who I would consider with a 1st round grade in this draft class, and he is 22 (same class as Fletcher Cox). Everybody else (Hankins, Lotulelei, Jenkins, Short, Williams) truly deserves a 2nd round grade based on age and/or production. Last years class was actually more productive and younger (though they lacked humongous size).



I think they will stay away from slot in the draft, because Decker can fill that role. I believe they take a shot at a #2WR (Pierre Garcon type) in the 3rd or the 4th round).

My thoughts on your thoughts of my thoughts:

1) I would love another early DT pick. Love it. I don't see it happening. Not with this coaching staff and our scheme. Vickerson, Bannan, and Unrein are 33-50% snap players. Wolfe moves inside and Unrein partners with him on passing downs. Bannan plays on obvious running downs. And Vickerson has been getting squeezed out more and more as our base down penetrating DT as we've been experimenting with Ayers and Dumervil outside, with Wolfe sliding inside. Vickerson only played 16/53 snaps last game. He's just not that important to our scheme even though he's played fine while in the game. Alot of that has to do with the weapons surrounding him though, not his talent level. We also know that long-term, as he gains size, Del Rio wants Wolfe to play DT in four man fronts.

So, lets assume Wolfe puts on the 10-15 pounds this offseason to get him around 315-320. He's now the starting LDT. Siliga, Bannan, or whatever NT we have is at RDT. Unrein is going to be the pass rushing DT sub for that NT. Wolfe is not coming out, and he's backed up by Malik Jackson, whom is the same type of player and build. Obviously, Wolfe and Jackson can kick out to 5 tech when we do our 3-3-5 looks with Miller standing up off the edge.

There is no need nor room for a DT on our roster. There is going to be a huge need for a Defensive End though for 4 man fronts. We could bring back Jason Hunter and he'd be fine at Left Defensive End, but even if so, Ayers is going to walk, and we'll need a backup for Dumervil at Right Defensive End. I would not be surprised to see two relatively high DEs drafted, a Rush End to back up Dumervil and a well rounded base end that is more effective against the run. From the coaches' comments, that is our long term goal for our defense.

So, more than DT, I'm looking extremely hard at the DEs projected to go in the top 4 rounds, thinking we need two. Okafor or Ansah in late 1, Ben Gardner or Datone Jones in the late 2nd, John Simon, Brandon Jenkins, or Tank Carradine in the late 3rd, some mixture of that would make sense.


2. My preference would be to replace McGahee with Moreno next season. You really can't have both as they are very similar players and neither is used on special teams. Moreno was somewhat cheap this year and his signing bonus, which is spread out across the length of his contract, would have been a big hit if he was released this season. We barely kept him, complete with Elway's quote of "I think he probably makes us a better team". Ringing endorsement, that. It's the same deal as it was with Tebow though. They don't like Moreno. They'll use him and applaud him, but as soon as they can ditch him, they will. They don't believe in him regardless of what he does. It's another example of their thought process that we're winning despite Moreno because defenses are gearing up to stop the pass. Also, Eddie Lacy is supposably coming out. He's the exact type of RB John Fox loves, and he's fast enough to play special teams. He's one of the few players I think are in our sights in late round 1. He has to get past Green Bay though.


3. I agree that the Broncos could take an outside WR and view Decker as the future in the slot.


4. DJ Williams looks to be done here. He's playing behind Trevathan since he's been back, and Trevathan has outplayed him to boot. The staff seems to have no desire to try and plug him in at MIKE, which I think would be the best idea. I also think you're way off on Kevin Minter. He's an incredible prospect that hasn't been hyped yet by the media. If he declares, he'll be in the Mid-1st Round discussion as a MIKE LB. He's not that far behind Te'o, and he's well ahead of Ogletree. I think we'd be lucky to land him in the late 1st, and he'd be a 3 down LB for a decade.


5. Jones is a good OG/OC. He's going to grade out behind Warmack and Cooper. His comparison is Max Unger, and he'd be a fine late 1st Round pick if we needed that. I haven't seen anything that suggests Kuper is done. Beadles is well thought of. I don't see any inclination that we would scrap Walton, though that is where I think Jones would be most likely to fit in rather than at OG. So, unless we give up on Walton, I don't see this as a probability.


6. I think the DT draft is potentially extremely deep. Lotulelei and Nix are Top 15 picks. Richardson, Jenkins, and Hankins should all go in the Top 25. Short, the Williams Trio, and Floyd could all go Late 1 to Mid 2. Spence, Logan, and Hill should all go from Late 2 - Mid 3. And if McCullers and Geathers come out, they could go in that range as well. Those two are expected to stay though. You can't trivialize the importance of size to the DT position. Parcells' Planet Theory is a key concept. Especially, if they're talking about eliminating cut blocks. Which would then put the entire onus on size and power in trench play. The fact that so many athletic big men could be available in one draft is a phenomenon, which would make this one of the best DT drafts in history on that factor alone.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Well cutting DJ, Moreno, and others will open up cap room, so will not resigning others. I know Clady will be a large cap hit, sometimes you have to spend money to improve especially in win now mode.

Wolfe will play inside with big Vick, we probably resign Silga who will be cheap, I have them drafting a stud DT, Malik Jackson is still on the roster, Garland on PS, and a veteran could be signed. Run stuffers are a dime a dozen, Bannan is playing solid, but he can be upgraded, and people just really like Unrein.. but he's not so good.

Don't fall for lonestar's crap. Dude is a troll and will ruin this thread.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by g6matty

Clady deserves top 5 money he gave up one sack all year when manning held on the ball too long. You really have a thing for pushing our best players out of town and hoping the under dog succeeds. You once said youre happy with never drafting a WR again and think its best to sign guys off practice squads and UFA . what kind of **** is that

Yes he probably does deserve big money for a team that needs a top five OLT. With our offense we really do not.

The OLT used to be a premium spot on the team.

But with the advent of quick passing game almost no need for him. The DEs have almost zero time to get after the QB. as younsaidmeven the great clady gave up a coverage sack.

As for WR I never said or implied getting me from a PS, I have always said pay for one that has proven they are not a head case, can help move the chains, and doe not fumble or drop passes. Most WRs take 3-4 years to get up to speed in the NFL why pay them to learn. Pay them to produce after they are proven.
Save that rookie learning curve money and get a real one.

Unless you can find a fitzgerald or megatron In the third whcpich we all know those go top ten. Do not waste your time or money.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Cutting dj saves I'm guessing 6 after his residual signing bonus is added to the mix.

Moreno will be back unless they bring in a rookie and somehow is unseated. Which is probably an even Steven money issue after KM residual signing bonus is dealt with so that outs you at about a plus 4.5.

If the resign Clady which IMO they will not. Since he is neither elite like some hope he will be nor will the money that he will want and probably get elsewhere fit into that 10 mil cap room you started with.

BTW run stuffers are not a dime a dozen, if they had been we would have been able to fix that issue we have had for over a decade. The first true one we brought in was Bunkley and did did not come cheap.

So please get over that notion.
As for the comment Bannan can be upgraded absolutely but it will cost a lot more to do so, since that's another few mil. You have run out of money without signing any other folks OR the rookies.

Oh well back to the drawing boards AGAIN.

Your how knowledge base is way off. 10 million is the current cap figure with what's available, then there are realeses, contract who's cap figure goes down (Doom), and cuts/ with players who walk. Following my plan would free up some 20 million in cap room.

Clady will be resigned, you have been beaten up over this I will take the high road.

Run stuffers WHO PUSH the pocked and generate a PASS RUSH are what this team lacks, not having a true MLB doesn't help matters either, watch your games over.

[Requiem]

Peyton Manning is here, that is why we don't need a guy like Ryan Clady.

Woops.

Guess loneturd forgot Tarik Glenn in Indianapolis when he was a three time All-Pro and a significant contributor to their successes and Super Bowl victory.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Your how knowledge base is way off. 10 million is the current cap figure with what's available, then there are realeses, contract who's cap figure goes down (Doom), and cuts/ with players who walk. Following my plan would free up some 20 million in cap room.

Clady will be resigned, you have been beaten up over this I will take the high road.

Run stuffers WHO PUSH the pocked and generate a PASS RUSH are what this team lacks, not having a true MLB doesn't help matters either, watch your games over.

Yet you do not get that yoi are flawed most of those you want to cut are on me year contracts or are making hpunder a mil a year. .

As for your comment about Clady who has beaten me up? John Elway? Until he proves me wrong I stand by my thoughts. Anyone else that thinks they are beating me up well it is only what they think. Since John make that decision if he decides he is worth almost ten % of the budget well I'm ok with that. Frankly I think he has other plans.

Even if yoi are correct with your Calculations and gyrations Clady still takes 10 mil plus of your budget. So your going to have to cut more existing guys or UFA. Because we all know that the draft is the future short and LONG term.

Forgot yes you are correct we lack a legit DT/NT have for over a decade. But your comment was about run stuffers being a dime a dozen. That is not factual.

[lonestar]

Requiem
This message is hidden because Requiem is on your ignore list.

I see dream boi has most likely taken another shot at me..
to bad so sad punk, I do not bother with you any more.. you are irrelevant..

not sure what the need to attack is.. feeling a little inadequate today..

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Your how knowledge base is way off. 10 million is the current cap figure with what's available, then there are realeses, contract who's cap figure goes down (Doom), and cuts/ with players who walk. Following my plan would free up some 20 million in cap room.

Clady will be resigned, you have been beaten up over this I will take the high road.

Run stuffers WHO PUSH the pocked and generate a PASS RUSH are what this team lacks, not having a true MLB doesn't help matters either, watch your games over.

The "cap" is the easiest thing to get around anyways. Any good FO can write a contracts to pay players and keep teams under the "cap".

As for the run stuffing pass rushing DT you are looking for, that is like a unicorn man. Not going to be cheap or easy to find. I'm a huge fan of Terrance Knighton being signed. He does have limited pass rushing skills but, he did have 4 sacks in 10. Wolfe will go back inside and play DT moving forward. You might not like what he has done this year but, he is doing quite well playing as many snaps as he has played his rookie year. Moving around like he has will only make him better going forward. That is why I want a guy like Hunt in the draft. Beast to play on the other side of Doom.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

The "cap" is the easiest thing to get around anyways. Any good FO can write a contracts to pay players and keep teams under the "cap".

As for the run stuffing pass rushing DT you are looking for, that is like a unicorn man. Not going to be cheap or easy to find. I'm a huge fan of Terrance Knighton being signed. He does have limited pass rushing skills but, he did have 4 sacks in 10. Wolfe will go back inside and play DT moving forward. You might not like what he has done this year but, he is doing quite well playing as many snaps as he has played his rookie year. Moving around like he has will only make him better going forward. That is why I want a guy like Hunt in the draft. Beast to play on the other side of Doom.

Yeah I suggested Knightons name on here a few weeks ago, so we are on the same page. But your right they are few and far between, I was telling him that we can easily upgrade run stuffers in Bannan and Unrein. I just like Wolfe inside next season with either Hunter, Ayers, Jackson or a draftee at DE. Do you think with all those options we still pursue a DE in the draft?

He doesn't realize the cap isn't going to be a daunting problem.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Yeah I suggested Knightons name on here a few weeks ago, so we are on the same page. But your right they are few and far between, I was telling him that we can easily upgrade run stuffers in Bannan and Unrein. I just like Wolfe inside next season with either Hunter, Ayers, Jackson or a draftee at DE. Do you think with all those options we still pursue a DE in the draft?

He doesn't realize the cap isn't going to be a daunting problem.

I think Bannan has been better then you claimed he would be for us and I wouldn't mind him coming back as long as we bring in other guys too. I've been a huge Hunter fan since he got to Denver but, who knows how well he will be with JDR. I think Ayers is gone after this year. I would like him to comeback but, I think someone will offer him starter money and he goes. Jury is still out on Jackson. I know he is playing more as the season goes along so that is a plus. I want another PASS rusher on the other side. Complete players are nice but, if we can get a pass rushing specialist to play some then I'm all for it.

I talked about Eric Martin from the Huskers, I'm a homer so I watch them. Undersized 6'2 250 DE. He reminds me of Robert Mathis in ways. Hard worker and I doubt he is drafted high if at all.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Yeah I suggested Knightons name on here a few weeks ago, so we are on the same page. But your right they are few and far between, I was telling him that we can easily upgrade run stuffers in Bannan and Unrein. I just like Wolfe inside next season with either Hunter, Ayers, Jackson or a draftee at DE. Do you think with all those options we still pursue a DE in the draft?

He doesn't realize the cap isn't going to be a daunting problem.

let me try this again I have said it in many threads, it is not the cap stupid it is the budget that PAT gives John to spend..

why do you think we have 10mil left this year.. it was Pats decision on how much they could spend..

as for creative contract writing the league approves each of them and if your playing games you lose draft picks and get fined..

yes you can create more room this year be deferring money till 3 years from now..

John saw this happening under mikey who never saw a cap that he could not squeeze under.. but Pat put a stop to that crap rewriting contracts giving up front money to the player for incentive to do so..

that is why we always had 5-20 million in dead cap space each year..

the player signed and then got cut or wound up on IR and then a settlement and yet that prorated money came due in the cap each year..

I suspect that Pat gave John the word htat he would not spend more than X make everything fit under that number and not to get creative with contracts..

Did you ever wonder why so many players (UFA) came on board with one year contracts?

two reasons it gave them a chance to play with Manning, all the while auditioning for next year.. the other reason was we were at or very near our internal cap number, after giving Manning a whooper..

if Manning was a flop then they moved on to another team if he was like he is their contract demands of next year would be better..

[DBroncos4life]

Lattimore entering the draft changes how I would draft. Before I was all in on Austin, now I'm all for Mosley or the best available D player. Lattimore has to be our 2nd round draft pick. I don't care if he can't play next year. No way shape or form does Denver ever get in a better position to draft an RB of his caliber with Manning as the QB.

Stedman Bailey in the 3rd should he enter would easy the blow for me of not landing Austin. Then go trench heavy the rest of the draft.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

I think Bannan has been better then you claimed he would be for us and I wouldn't mind him coming back as long as we bring in other guys too. I've been a huge Hunter fan since he got to Denver but, who knows how well he will be with JDR. I think Ayers is gone after this year. I would like him to comeback but, I think someone will offer him starter money and he goes. Jury is still out on Jackson. I know he is playing more as the season goes along so that is a plus. I want another PASS rusher on the other side. Complete players are nice but, if we can get a pass rushing specialist to play some then I'm all for it.

I talked about Eric Martin from the Huskers, I'm a homer so I watch them. Undersized 6'2 250 DE. He reminds me of Robert Mathis in ways. Hard worker and I doubt he is drafted high if at all.

Yeah Bannan has been better than I gave credit for, I want to upgrade he and Unrein though.

I don't see a small SDE with our scheme.. I have liked what I have seen from your boy Hunt.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by lonestar

let me try this again I have said it in many threads, it is not the cap stupid it is the budget that PAT gives John to spend..

why do you think we have 10mil left this year.. it was Pats decision on how much they could spend..

as for creative contract writing the league approves each of them and if your playing games you lose draft picks and get fined..

yes you can create more room this year be deferring money till 3 years from now..

John saw this happening under mikey who never saw a cap that he could not squeeze under.. but Pat put a stop to that crap rewriting contracts giving up front money to the player for incentive to do so..

that is why we always had 5-20 million in dead cap space each year..

the player signed and then got cut or wound up on IR and then a settlement and yet that prorated money came due in the cap each year..

I suspect that Pat gave John the word htat he would not spend more than X make everything fit under that number and not to get creative with contracts..

Did you ever wonder why so many players (UFA) came on board with one year contracts?

two reasons it gave them a chance to play with Manning, all the while auditioning for next year.. the other reason was we were at or very near our internal cap number, after giving Manning a whooper..

if Manning was a flop then they moved on to another team if he was like he is their contract demands of next year would be better..

Stupid..? So you cry about people taking shots at you, now your gonna trash my thread and take a shot at me? Yeah I see what your saying, but I don't agree with it. They will spend most of their cap money, they are in win now. And don't rebuttle me about how PB won't spend money. That money isn't **** to him. You must not comprehend how wealthy one must be to own a football team. They leave cap room, so they can sign/resign players before the following league year and in case of emergency.

I will not respond to anything you type. You are a Hypocrit! You cry that Req and Rev and others bust your balls and take personnel shots, yet you felt compelled to do that to me, and I have not insulted you.

[g6matty]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Stupid..? So you cry about people taking shots at you, now your gonna trash my thread and take a shot at me? Yeah I see what your saying, but I don't agree with it. They will spend most of their cap money, they are in win now. And don't rebuttle me about how PB won't spend money. That money isn't **** to him. You must not comprehend how wealthy one must be to own a football team. They leave cap room, so they can sign/resign players before the following league year and in case of emergency.

I will not respond to anything you type. You are a Hypocrit! You cry that Req and Rev and others bust your balls and take personnel shots, yet you felt compelled to do that to me, and I have not insulted you.

Nooooooo dont let him get to you. Youre falling in his trap

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by g6matty

Nooooooo dont let him get to you. Youre falling in his trap

No I'm good, I want to have good prospect/free agency talk, he doesn't evaluate anything to actually be involved.

Have you watched anyone recently enticing?

[g6matty]

Yea jr smith is money from the knicks...

But seriously i dont know much about college players i just jump on a few band wagons each year and hope the broncos draft them (ogletree)

[g6matty]

Needs in my mind go from mlb wr d-line (dt + rush de) oline ( c / g ) if they can upgrade walton or beadles im all for it

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Stupid..? So you cry about people taking shots at you, now your gonna trash my thread and take a shot at me? Yeah I see what your saying, but I don't agree with it. They will spend most of their cap money, they are in win now. And don't rebuttle me about how PB won't spend money. That money isn't **** to him. You must not comprehend how wealthy one must be to own a football team. They leave cap room, so they can sign/resign players before the following league year and in case of emergency.

I will not respond to anything you type. You are a Hypocrit! You cry that Req and Rev and others bust your balls and take personnel shots, yet you felt compelled to do that to me, and I have not insulted you.

The comment was not necessarily a shot at YOU sorry you took it that way.. it was generic comment kind of a comedy wise crack..

As far as dream busting my ball i have the moron on iggy but know he is taking shots at me because i banned him a bunch of times on another forum.. he was a punk then and still is..

I do not share your thought on the win now mentality they had the opportunity to sign a bunch more guys last year, but was not willing to shell out the money.. I do not see the urgency that everyone else does..

I know rich not hat I am, but I know folks like that and yes money does count for them.. they got rich for the most part by being good if not great businessmen so watching how you spend it is important to them..

one of the reasons mikey was fired was because of all his bad personnel decisions so Pat said in an interview at one time he was going to reign in the free spending..

therefore I believe we will not get to the salary cap anytime soon.. Even John at one time made comment about Pat giving him a budget to stay within. now has that changed in the past two years?

I guess we will see..

Respond or not I'm sorry if you took it personally.. Overall your posts are pretty good .. I do not agree with all of them but you would not be the first nor the last in that area..