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Old 12-03-2012, 11:34 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by cmhargrove View Post
Back to the effectiveness question. Has anyone seen this work anywhere else? College? High School? CFL? Anywhere?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=jQz4BFbgARI
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:43 AM   #52
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A. Manning should of been taking the final snaps from the shotgun; don't give them a chance to bum rush and knock someone over
B. I wouldnt mind if we line up 5 wide instead and Manning take a shot downfield if they wanna do that
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:48 AM   #53
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I all but guarantee that if we lost a starter from this, the opinions would be a lot different.

Like I said in my previous post, I don't see how this is a safer play than the crap Von was called for earlier in the game. Be consistent NFL.
Yup.

Imagine if one of the offensive lineman was hurt because a defensive player dove at his legs. Just an unnecessary injury risk.

After they did it the first time against Peyton, I was hoping he would send someone on a route and run up the score.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:55 AM   #54
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This is how I view it. I think the kneel down is ghey. The players play to the whistle. I don't think it's going to ever accomplish anything, but their coach is a big reason the Buccs have turned things around and finishing is something he's put a lot of emphasis on this season.

I actually thought the coach was pretty cool. He spoke with Manning saying he wasn't trying to hurt him and I liked the way he slapped Manning on the helmet during the game when he converted that third down where he basically spiked the ball at Moreno and Moreno caught it. I've never seen an opposing coach do that. And Manning has never had it happen.

That said, I would re-think it. All you're going to do is hurt someone. So it's not worth it, IMO and it pisses a lot of tightly wound coaches off. Fox was kind of "whatever" about it. Coughlin went all "how DARE you, sir!." I would re-think it. It doesn't bother me, but it's probably something that isn't worth the reputation that comes with it and it's barely affecting the game.
That and Schiano has the proportions of a Pixar character.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:06 PM   #55
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I think it will never work in the NFL and is pretty dumb. However, that's his right to call the play. Whatever.

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I never saw this before. I don't really like Schiano in general. But that was pretty awesome. I might even have teared up a bit reading that
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:08 PM   #56
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If you watch it the TB players are just looking to go down fighting. They were no where near Manning nor were they trying to get the ball plus they had guys going out of their way to jump into the pile well after the play ended.
This my issue with it. Do they really want to offer that many opportunities to get last minute grudges out? The defense has nothing to lose.

As for those saying shotgun, there's no real loss at this point with getting an offsides call. Defensive players can keep trying to jump the snap, bump the center, and get a fumble. It's unlikely but what would you have to lose in trying it? Seems like more bad snaps would occur in shotgun than under center.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:19 PM   #57
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I think it's a legit play. Most of the response I see here for how to counteract this involve using shotgun, or running a regular play. This is exactly the outcome the the bucs should want. Forcing teams into riskier (if only slightly) play calls at the end of a game.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:21 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Br0nc0Buster View Post
A. Manning should of been taking the final snaps from the shotgun; don't give them a chance to bum rush and knock someone over
B. I wouldnt mind if we line up 5 wide instead and Manning take a shot downfield if they wanna do that
This^ Was thinking the same thing and it would be hilarious
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:24 PM   #59
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There's a reason none of the other teams do it, but what do I know.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:37 PM   #60
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Other teams will try and run the score up on Schiano and he will learn his lesson. Don't try and make a name for yourself (at the risk of unnecessary injuries) as a rookie coach in the NFL
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:39 PM   #61
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I guess it's a bad sign when your team is known for something when the victory formation is lined up against you.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:44 PM   #62
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props to them for playing to the final whistle, props to the broncos for being ready for it
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:45 PM   #63
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Other teams will try and run the score up on Schiano and he will learn his lesson. Don't try and make a name for yourself (at the risk of unnecessary injuries) as a rookie coach in the NFL
Unfortunately, Belicheck is probably the only coach willing to run it up on someone. Everyone else is too worried about offending someone, it seems.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:47 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by cmhargrove View Post
Back to the effectiveness question. Has anyone seen this work anywhere else? College? High School? CFL? Anywhere?
If memory serves me right Schiano did the same thing at Rutgers and caused a fumble to win the game.....
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:49 PM   #65
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If memory serves me right Schiano did the same thing at Rutgers and caused a fumble to win the game.....
I believe I read after he first did it in week 2 that it worked 3 times at Rutgers but one was called back due to a penalty of some sort.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:52 PM   #66
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I think they need to concentrate more on how to prevent victory formations from happening, instead of how to blow up a victory formation.
This.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:53 PM   #67
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It's never worked in the NFL and it may have worked once or twice in college. So if you take the thousands upon thousands of Kneel downs over all those years, the % of a defense causing a fumble is like .000000000000001%. Yeah, let's stop pretending that it's going to work. It won't, it doesn't, it's foolish. When you say Manning could have EASILY got nervous and muffed the snap, I think that % shows you that your FOS.

I think we should have got lined up, make all those defensive players get in their ultra low stance, hold them there for 30 seconds and then take a penalty for delay of game. Do that 5 of 6 times and make their legs just burn for 30 seconds each time. Then take your last kneel down and deal with their BS.

So because it has never happened in the victory formation my opinion is full of ****? Yeah, that..........wait.....no, no it doesnt make sense.

Fact is, that QBs muff snaps under center all the freaking time! Where is the percentage of that? Care to pull those up for us?- yes, they happen a bunch and when the game is tight and on the line- lets refer to the great elway back in '97 after the D stopped favre on 4th down. What was the very first thing he said to his center before they took the kneel down formation?.............."make sure I get this snap"...........!!!!!

So I am going to have to call bull**** on this one! It may not have happened yet but if elway was nervous enough- like I just said a QB might be- well then....maybe it just might happen afterall. You never know until you try.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:54 PM   #68
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Just so we're crystal clear...

Von Miller gets flagged for diving and landing on a QB's knees, on a play that does actually work sometimes.

The Tampa D doesn't get flagged for literally diving at the O-line's knees with the game in hand.

You can win with class and you can lose with class. Schiano and his junior college bull**** is classless.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:02 PM   #69
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The original intent of the kneel down was to show a team that was already defeated that the winning team was not going to continue to try and score just to rub their faces in it. Schiano should no longer expect that courtesy.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:03 PM   #70
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I forget who the Bucs were playing (maybe the raiders) but, when they had the game in hand, Josh Freeman snapped from the shotgun and took a knee.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:10 PM   #71
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If the situation is that they are within one score of tying the game I don't have a problem with it unless they are just using it to take cheap shots. The refs need to watch closely for these and throw plenty of flags if that is the case and not just penalize them with yards. I am talking about fines and/or suspensions. The only real way this is going to work for them though is with the element of surprise. Now that everyone knows it is coming the chances of it actually working is incredibly small. It looked like Denver had worked on it ahead of time. Manning didn't just take a knee when he received the snap, he took a few quick steps before kneeling and then got the ball to the refs.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:17 PM   #72
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I'd like to hear one instance, just ONE, of this garbage actually working. Until then, Schiano's just a classless jerk and I hope he gets run over by a truck.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:17 PM   #73
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Just be ready for it, I guess.

I'd rather not see the Broncos have to break the shotgun snap out in those situations though because they did happen to botch one earlier in the game.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:22 PM   #74
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Knowshon and Gronk pushed all their LB's onto their backs...with Deebo threatening to rip the facemask off of anyone who tried to start crap.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:29 PM   #75
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I think it's a legit play. Most of the response I see here for how to counteract this involve using shotgun, or running a regular play. This is exactly the outcome the the bucs should want. Forcing teams into riskier (if only slightly) play calls at the end of a game.
It cracks me up that people think a shotgun snap would end the discussion. Bad snaps happen all the time. Plus the reason they don't call a run play in victory situations is to prevent a fumble.

Does anyone here feel comfortable with any of our RB's carrying the ball while a D is desperate and holding them up to go for the strip?

Best play is to be ready for it and for the coaches to complain to the league office afterward. I thought it was dirty that TB was jumping the pile well after the whistle blew.
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