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Old 11-22-2012, 07:46 AM   #1
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Default AFC West: Denver Broncos' success have rest of division scrambling

It's now about the math for the Broncos which means it's now about solving the problems for the rest of the AFC West. Denver took control of the division this past Sunday as the Broncos completed a season sweep of the Chargers.
At 7-3, the Broncos have created an enormous gap between themselves and the rest of the division and they have also created plenty of unrest in the wake of that.
Things are to the boiling point in Kansas City and San Diego with Oakland Raiders managing general partner Mark Davis having also made it clear he's not happy with his team's performance in the first year of their own rebuilding project.
So, after a look at the video and conversations with scouts and personnel executives around the league, here is a look at the AFC West:
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS
The lowdown: Run your finger down the list of the league's leading receivers and it takes until you get to No. 26 in yards receiving (626) and you will go No. 23 for catches (49) before you find the name of a Chiefs player.
They have the 28th- and 38th-ranked quarterbacks in the league in Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn. They have three starting offensive linemen who are injured at the moment left tackle Branden Albert (back), center/guard Ryan Lilja (knee) and guard Jon Asomoah (thumb).
And they have thrown more interceptions (15) and lost more fumbles (16) than any team in the league.
So it's no real surprise the Chiefs are now the lowest scoring offense in the NFL at just over 15 points a game.
But this isn't a new problem. They were 31st in scoring last season (13.3 points per game) and were 31st in 2007 (14.1).
It's a far cry from the offense that scored 58 touchdowns in 2004, the same year current Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning threw 49 touchdown passes for the Colts. But the steady erosion of talent is staggering from a team that had three 55-catch receivers and three 500-yard rushers less than a decade

Brady Quinn will start for the Chiefs against the Broncos on Sunday. But does it matter? (Getty Images)
ago.
And simply running Matt Cassel out of town won't fix it. NFL personnel people questioned the Chiefs depth chart before the season started, many privately chuckling at so many public predictions of a playoff team.
Those criticisms have proven true and the team's recent injuries and lack of quality replacements on the two-deep have only made it even more glaring.
Good to know: Cornerback Stanford Routt was released by both the Raiders and the Chiefs in a 10-month span, with Kansas City having sent him on his way earlier this month.
But Routt, who hasn't played in the last two games since his Nov. 5 release, is still tied for the team lead in interceptions with two. Brandon Flowers also has two.
A good read: The Chiefs' disconnect with their angry fan base grows deeper. Sam Mellinger on the continued, and growing, divide between the team and its fans.
OAKLAND RAIDERS......


Read more: AFC West: Denver Broncos' success has division scrambling - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...#ixzz2Cy07JVF9
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:07 AM   #2
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Chiefs’ disconnect with angry fan base grows deeper

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/18...#storylink=cpy


http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/18...isconnect.html
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:08 AM   #3
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Oakland Raiders' latest debacle leaves Mark Davis fuming


http://www.insidebayarea.com/raiders/ci_22023582
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:09 AM   #4
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Chargers fans not amused by team's 15% off sale


http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/...teams-15-sale/
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:14 AM   #5
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By next year, Fox will be the "senior" HC in the AFC West.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:14 AM   #6
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I think all of these so called analysts are no more experts than we are. I love that they are now chuckling about the Chiefs and saying that they lack the depth to compete. Same crap they were saying about the Broncos.

You know what the differnce is? Peyton Manning. Sure we have some great talent: Von, Doom, Champ, Thomas etc. But, the Chiefs have some great players too.

To me, the bottom line is this: You have to have a top-10 QB to compete in this league. Teams that do....make the playoffs....teams that don't draft high until they find one. How's that for analysis? Pretty easy stuff!

In my opinion....the Chiefs should have kept Orton....and drafted a young guy in last years draft. That would have been thier best shot. Orton is better than both Cassel and Quinn...and could have been servicable with the talent they do have on that football team.

And for Rivers, and Palmer...those guys are not top-10 caliber guys....not right now anyway...and it's not because of the talent around them. Both guys have plenty of play makers in my opinion.

My top 10:

Manning
Brady
Rogers
Brees
Ryan
Roethlesberger
Manning
RG III
Luck
Freeman

On the fringe:
Flaco, Schaub, Romo, Cutler, Newton, Stafford, Rivers

**The Ravens and Texans are the only teams that contradict my opnion. I believe both Flaco and Schaub are above average, but not special. Each of the guys I have on the Fringe could move up depending on more experience or fewer mistakes...but, I think they are who they are. I think my top 7 guys would instantly make most teams better. RG III, Luck, and Freeman all have what it takes to be in that same category within the next few years.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:29 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamrob View Post
I think all of these so called analysts are no more experts than we are. I love that they are now chuckling about the Chiefs and saying that they lack the depth to compete. Same crap they were saying about the Broncos.

You know what the differnce is? Peyton Manning. Sure we have some great talent: Von, Doom, Champ, Thomas etc. But, the Chiefs have some great players too.

To me, the bottom line is this: You have to have a top-10 QB to compete in this league. Teams that do....make the playoffs....teams that don't draft high until they find one. How's that for analysis? Pretty easy stuff!

In my opinion....the Chiefs should have kept Orton....and drafted a young guy in last years draft. That would have been thier best shot. Orton is better than both Cassel and Quinn...and could have been servicable with the talent they do have on that football team.

And for Rivers, and Palmer...those guys are not top-10 caliber guys....not right now anyway...and it's not because of the talent around them. Both guys have plenty of play makers in my opinion.

My top 10:

Manning
Brady
Rogers
Brees
Ryan
Roethlesberger
Manning
RG III
Luck
Freeman

On the fringe:
Flaco, Schaub, Romo, Cutler, Newton, Stafford, Rivers

**The Ravens and Texans are the only teams that contradict my opnion. I believe both Flaco and Schaub are above average, but not special. Each of the guys I have on the Fringe could move up depending on more experience or fewer mistakes...but, I think they are who they are. I think my top 7 guys would instantly make most teams better. RG III, Luck, and Freeman all have what it takes to be in that same category within the next few years.
Why is Luck considered elite by so many? He has as many INTs as TDs (12) a below 60% completion rate, 8 fumbles and a passer rating of 77. He has shown flashes but right now is not a top 10 QB. Schaub and Stafford are top 10 and should be listed ahead of Luck, Freeman and RGIII.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:59 AM   #8
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If Peyton played on all 4 teams in AFC West. The AFC West would be the toughest division overnight.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:06 AM   #9
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If Peyton played on all 4 teams in AFC West. The AFC West would be the toughest division overnight.
Plus he's have a shiit load of frequent flier miles.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:13 AM   #10
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Plus he's have a shiit load of frequent flier miles.


He can have more Pappa John franchises too
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:53 AM   #11
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I expected the Broncos to surge ahead to a 10 win team. I didn't expect every single other team in the division to regress so horribly. That is a surprise. You would think at least one team would be improving. The Raiders, for example, were starting to get better and now have regressed. The Chargers have improved in some things but still suck in a lot of others. And the Chiefs have just been absolute garbage. You were thinking they might be like the Kyle Boller Ravens of the early 2000's; Great defense, horrible offense.

For some reason the entire AFC West is garbage.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:56 AM   #12
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I expected the Broncos to surge ahead to a 10 win team. I didn't expect every single other team in the division to regress so horribly. That is a surprise. You would think at least one team would be improving. The Raiders, for example, were starting to get better and now have regressed. The Chargers have improved in some things but still suck in a lot of others. And the Chiefs have just been absolute garbage. You were thinking they might be like the Kyle Boller Ravens of the early 2000's; Great defense, horrible offense.

For some reason the entire AFC West is garbage.
The Broncos play in the AFC West.
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:10 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Hamrob View Post
I think all of these so called analysts are no more experts than we are. I love that they are now chuckling about the Chiefs and saying that they lack the depth to compete. Same crap they were saying about the Broncos.

You know what the differnce is? Peyton Manning. Sure we have some great talent: Von, Doom, Champ, Thomas etc. But, the Chiefs have some great players too.

To me, the bottom line is this: You have to have a top-10 QB to compete in this league. Teams that do....make the playoffs....teams that don't draft high until they find one. How's that for analysis? Pretty easy stuff!

In my opinion....the Chiefs should have kept Orton....and drafted a young guy in last years draft. That would have been thier best shot. Orton is better than both Cassel and Quinn...and could have been servicable with the talent they do have on that football team.

And for Rivers, and Palmer...those guys are not top-10 caliber guys....not right now anyway...and it's not because of the talent around them. Both guys have plenty of play makers in my opinion.

My top 10:

Manning
Brady
Rogers
Brees
Ryan
Roethlesberger
Manning
RG III
Luck
Freeman

On the fringe:
Flaco, Schaub, Romo, Cutler, Newton, Stafford, Rivers

**The Ravens and Texans are the only teams that contradict my opnion. I believe both Flaco and Schaub are above average, but not special. Each of the guys I have on the Fringe could move up depending on more experience or fewer mistakes...but, I think they are who they are. I think my top 7 guys would instantly make most teams better. RG III, Luck, and Freeman all have what it takes to be in that same category within the next few years.
You're just reverse engineering your QB ratings from team success.

The Jets have been to two AFC Ch games with Sanchez at QB. Yeah, we all know that the league has tailored its game to favor the passing game through several iterations of rule changes that makes the game barely recognizable to what it was 15 years ago. And it definitely helps to have a good QB. But perhaps the more glaring reality is that you can't have poor QB play. If you have everything else plus competent (not elite) QB play, you can still win. Houston continued winning last year with a rookie 3rd stringer...and even won a playoff game with Yates. Yates isn't elite. Actually, neither is Schaub.
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamrob View Post
I think all of these so called analysts are no more experts than we are. I love that they are now chuckling about the Chiefs and saying that they lack the depth to compete. Same crap they were saying about the Broncos.

You know what the differnce is? Peyton Manning. Sure we have some great talent: Von, Doom, Champ, Thomas etc. But, the Chiefs have some great players too.

To me, the bottom line is this: You have to have a top-10 QB to compete in this league. Teams that do....make the playoffs....teams that don't draft high until they find one. How's that for analysis? Pretty easy stuff!

In my opinion....the Chiefs should have kept Orton....and drafted a young guy in last years draft. That would have been thier best shot. Orton is better than both Cassel and Quinn...and could have been servicable with the talent they do have on that football team.

And for Rivers, and Palmer...those guys are not top-10 caliber guys....not right now anyway...and it's not because of the talent around them. Both guys have plenty of play makers in my opinion.

My top 10:

Manning
Brady
Rogers
Brees
Ryan
Roethlesberger
Manning
RG III
Luck
Freeman

On the fringe:
Flaco, Schaub, Romo, Cutler, Newton, Stafford, Rivers

**The Ravens and Texans are the only teams that contradict my opnion. I believe both Flaco and Schaub are above average, but not special. Each of the guys I have on the Fringe could move up depending on more experience or fewer mistakes...but, I think they are who they are. I think my top 7 guys would instantly make most teams better. RG III, Luck, and Freeman all have what it takes to be in that same category within the next few years.


I agree mostly but also believe that great players playing in a poor scheme, poor coaching will kill their talent..

KC has a bunch of talent, but something is not right.. I thought Crennell would make the difference but perhaps he is what he is a DC ONLY..
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
I expected the Broncos to surge ahead to a 10 win team. I didn't expect every single other team in the division to regress so horribly. That is a surprise. You would think at least one team would be improving. The Raiders, for example, were starting to get better and now have regressed. The Chargers have improved in some things but still suck in a lot of others. And the Chiefs have just been absolute garbage. You were thinking they might be like the Kyle Boller Ravens of the early 2000's; Great defense, horrible offense.

For some reason the entire AFC West is garbage.
As for SAN did you see Rivers falling apart so often in games like he has?

While not a top five guy when he is on he is damned good..
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:03 PM   #16
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I agree mostly but also believe that great players playing in a poor scheme, poor coaching will kill their talent..

KC has a bunch of talent, but something is not right.. I thought Crennell would make the difference but perhaps he is what he is a DC ONLY..
Seeing what has become of Cassel, really puts into perspective what a clownshow that McDaniels was.

If McDaniels had been successful in acquiring that turd, the Broncos probably wouldn't have Manning now and Denver would be in the same position as the Chiefs.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:23 PM   #17
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I still believe the Chiefs are a talented team, player wise. But a bad headcoach can be very destructive; just look at how the 49ers turned around with Harbaugh after the Singletary debacle. And everybody knows it's difficult to get anywhere with a mediocre QB (see: Browns who are also a talented team, IMO). It wouldn't surprise me to see the Chiefs make some HC/QB changes this coming offseason and be a AFCW title contender next year.

The Chargers just look like they're imploding, though. I hope they keep Norv Turner, but they probably won't. Not now.
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:10 PM   #18
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I still believe the Chiefs are a talented team, player wise. But a bad headcoach can be very destructive; just look at how the 49ers turned around with Harbaugh after the Singletary debacle. And everybody knows it's difficult to get anywhere with a mediocre QB (see: Browns who are also a talented team, IMO). It wouldn't surprise me to see the Chiefs make some HC/QB changes this coming offseason and be a AFCW title contender next year.

The Chargers just look like they're imploding, though. I hope they keep Norv Turner, but they probably won't. Not now.


Then there is OAK with a bad owner part duex
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
I expected the Broncos to surge ahead to a 10 win team. I didn't expect every single other team in the division to regress so horribly. That is a surprise. You would think at least one team would be improving. The Raiders, for example, were starting to get better and now have regressed. The Chargers have improved in some things but still suck in a lot of others. And the Chiefs have just been absolute garbage. You were thinking they might be like the Kyle Boller Ravens of the early 2000's; Great defense, horrible offense.

For some reason the entire AFC West is garbage.
Every time the Raiders finally get something going, they fire their coach.
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:45 PM   #20
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I still believe the Chiefs are a talented team, player wise. But a bad headcoach can be very destructive; just look at how the 49ers turned around with Harbaugh after the Singletary debacle. And everybody knows it's difficult to get anywhere with a mediocre QB (see: Browns who are also a talented team, IMO). It wouldn't surprise me to see the Chiefs make some HC/QB changes this coming offseason and be a AFCW title contender next year.

The Chargers just look like they're imploding, though. I hope they keep Norv Turner, but they probably won't. Not now.
In today's NFL your roster needs to be absolutely loaded when you have QB's like Cassel and Quinn. The Chiefs roster has some talent here and there, but they are miles from being loaded.

And really, until Manning retires none of the other AFC West teams have much of a chance of really contending for the division.
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:58 PM   #21
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Every time the Raiders finally get something going, they fire their coach.
Gruden was the real mistake. They had a team primed for long term winning.

But the EGO of the owner got in the way because John wanted to do it his way instead of the aldaviss way. he was building a nice team and had the talent to work with. IIRC the next year Gruden cleaned Oaks clock in the super bowl.
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:20 PM   #22
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If Peyton played on all 4 teams in AFC West. The AFC West would be the toughest division overnight.
Another thing. Whatever team he played for in the West that team would win the division, Kansas City, S.D. and Oakland. Whatever team signed him was going to win the division.
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:13 PM   #23
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Why is Luck considered elite by so many? He has as many INTs as TDs (12) a below 60% completion rate, 8 fumbles and a passer rating of 77. He has shown flashes but right now is not a top 10 QB. Schaub and Stafford are top 10 and should be listed ahead of Luck, Freeman and RGIII.
Luck, RG III, and Freeman have the upside of being great. The guys that I listed on the fringe...are very good QB's, but not great.....they are not going to win Super Bowls for their teams. If they get a ring....it will be because of the rest of the team. Go ahead and try to make an argument that Schaub is a franchise QB....good luck! Take a way Johson, and Foster.........DONE. Plug PM in with any of the AFC West teams and they would be a playoff team. Luck has the potential....these others guys have already shown who they are.
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:19 PM   #24
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You're just reverse engineering your QB ratings from team success.

The Jets have been to two AFC Ch games with Sanchez at QB. Yeah, we all know that the league has tailored its game to favor the passing game through several iterations of rule changes that makes the game barely recognizable to what it was 15 years ago. And it definitely helps to have a good QB. But perhaps the more glaring reality is that you can't have poor QB play. If you have everything else plus competent (not elite) QB play, you can still win. Houston continued winning last year with a rookie 3rd stringer...and even won a playoff game with Yates. Yates isn't elite. Actually, neither is Schaub.
I'm not reverse engineering SHOOOT. I believe those 10 guys are the guys who are true franchise QB's....the botton 3 have the talent and the ability...and for now should be included. The guys I've listed on the fringe...either have shown that they have issues, or just aren't that caliber of QB.

If Schaub were QB'ing the Chiefs....what would be their record Would they be a playoff team?? If I were the GM of the Chiefs...I'd take everyone of those top 10 guys before the guys I've listed on the fringe...for various reasons.

The moral of this story is: Franchise QB's are the #1 needed ingredient to winning championships and competing for one year in and year out. If you don't understand that...then, you don't understand the NFL. That's why even Jim Harbaugh is making a QB change with Alex Smith having a top 5 QB rating. Harbaugh knows that Smith is good but not elite...and winning a championship with him will be very difficult.
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:20 PM   #25
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I agree mostly but also believe that great players playing in a poor scheme, poor coaching will kill their talent..

KC has a bunch of talent, but something is not right.. I thought Crennell would make the difference but perhaps he is what he is a DC ONLY..
The biggest issue with K.C. is that they do not have a Franchise QB. Put Manning on that team...and they're in our position!
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