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Old 11-20-2012, 11:05 AM   #226
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Yeah, McGahee looked great next to Hillman, but I'm telling you, Ball will be just as effective as McGahee running the ball. Can Ball pass protect and always be in the correct spot like McGahee.. we shall see. But as far as pure rushing skills, McGahee wont be difficult to replace.
You still ignore the fact Willis was #10 in rushing next to whomever and on his way to maybe #8 after Sunday

Bottomline is I still beleive this team no matter who runs the ball will put up close to 30 a game so the other team will have to match Denver's offensive output
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:16 AM   #227
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Some Lance Ball love from IAOFM. I did not know this:

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Not to be overlooked is that Ball spent much of a year's time with the Colts between 2008 and 2009, and therefore he and Peyton Manning have a pre-existing comfort with each other.
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...n-blitz-pickup
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:20 AM   #228
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Some Lance Ball love from IAOFM. I did not know this:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...n-blitz-pickup
Ball only played in 1 game for the Colts...I highly doubt there was much chemistry built.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:24 AM   #229
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Ball only played in 1 game for the Colts...I highly doubt there was much chemistry built.
Yes, agree. But by "comfort" they could also mean "familiarity". They practiced together, film room, etc. But agree, not really a big deal. I just never knew he was a Colt.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:26 AM   #230
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You must be in a league were you lose points for fumbles. Nine touches and he fumbled last week. When they wanted to run the clock out they trusted Hillman not Ball.
Your point about Hillman getting the rock at the end of the game is a decent one but if you want to compare who's better at protecting the ball then I think we need larger sample sizes for both... Hillman 1 fumble thru 46 attempts. Ball 5 thru 175.

So i went back and tried to find fumble totals from college. I didnt see anything on Ball, but Hillman lost 5 fumbles in 13 games last season and 2 his freshman year.

Something i found interesting during my search was the pre-draft analysis by profootballweekly.com on Hillman. Their write-up on his negative is pretty much exactly what we're seeing this season. Let's hope we see more of the positives down the stretch.


Rare two-year production. Nearly beat Missouri by himself as a freshman. Has playmaking ability (see 99-yard TD vs. Wyoming). Good vision and balance. Is quick-footed, agile and elusive with a fluid stride. Nice lateral agility to jump-cut and divert his path. Strings moves together with stop-and-start ability. Good short-area quickness to zip through creases. Shows second-level burst. Keeps his legs pumping on contact. Has hip flexibility and change of direction to separate vs. man coverage and is slippery after the catch. Handled an average of 23 carries per game over two years.
Negatives:

Undersized — has a small, narrow frame and lacks bulk. Is not equipped to grind between the tackles. Average run strength — too easily turned on contact, gets stood up in the hole and cannot push the pile. Still developing patience — at times runs up the backs of linemen. Can be short-circuited by penetration. Carries the ball loosely away from his body and fumbles have been an issue. Lets throws get into his body and drops passes he shouldn’t. Low blocker. Was contained by TCU.



http://www.profootballweekly.com/pro...ie-hillman-13/

Last edited by fwf; 11-20-2012 at 11:29 AM..
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:32 AM   #231
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:41 AM   #232
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You still ignore the fact Willis was #10 in rushing next to whomever and on his way to maybe #8 after Sunday

Bottomline is I still beleive this team no matter who runs the ball will put up close to 30 a game so the other team will have to match Denver's offensive output

How many lousy running backs ran for 1000 yds for us during the 00's? This team is no different. The holes are there and McGahee was finding them.. I guess give him credit for that, but my eye test for him when compared against the top talent in the league show McGahee lacking. The burst was gone, no big play ability, zero edge speed. We just quit running out side.

Your last point is fine, but wouldnt it be better if we avg. 35-40.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:09 PM   #233
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How many lousy running backs ran for 1000 yds for us during the 00's? This team is no different. The holes are there and McGahee was finding them.. I guess give him credit for that, but my eye test for him when compared against the top talent in the league show McGahee lacking. The burst was gone, no big play ability, zero edge speed. We just quit running out side.

Your last point is fine, but wouldnt it be better if we avg. 35-40.
The running game now and in the 00's is completely different, and the holes now and then are much different.

The holes this year are much more difficult to find if they're even there...and McGahee finishes off a lot of his runs by plowing a defender 4-5 yards.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:20 PM   #234
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...and McGahee finishes off a lot of his runs by plowing a defender 4-5 yards.
Yup. McGahee doesn't have a lot of speed and isn't a home run hitter but he finds the holes and maximizes them pretty well. And he gets some yards after contact. He's gonna be missed more than some think.

Legwold puts it well here:

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McGahee is easily the team's most productive runner out of a three wide receiver set, because he is so proficient at running inside. He makes quick decisions and finishes runs between the guards with power.
Read more: Willis McGahee's injury will force big decisions in Broncos run game - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...#ixzz2CnS7lqaL
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Last edited by TonyR; 11-20-2012 at 12:27 PM..
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:35 PM   #235
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Some Lance Ball love from IAOFM. I did not know this:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...n-blitz-pickup
Doesn't help his slippery fingers and perennial backup status.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:37 PM   #236
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One of the glaring issues of this offense continues to be the lack of depth. You have a starter who is good enough when healthy but has a history of knee injury, and backups who are either too small and/or injury prone, plus others who can't keep their hands on the damned ball. I wasn't happy at the lack of movement in the backfield. We should have picked up a solid FA somewhere.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:42 PM   #237
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Yup. McGahee doesn't have a lot of speed and isn't a home run hitter but he finds the holes and maximizes them pretty well. And he gets some yards after contact. He's gonna be missed more than some think.
You're right. Rewatching the Chargers game, McGahee always plows ahead for a couple more yards after contact.

While Hillman, Ball, and Moreno go down at first contact. It generally makes a difference of a couple yards, and is the primary reason why McGahee is effective, while the three-legged stool only aspires to be.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:54 PM   #238
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One of the glaring issues of this offense continues to be the lack of depth. You have a starter who is good enough when healthy but has a history of knee injury, and backups who are either too small and/or injury prone, plus others who can't keep their hands on the damned ball. I wasn't happy at the lack of movement in the backfield. We should have picked up a solid FA somewhere.
We had some serious rebuilding to do when Elway took over the FO. We are way ahead of were many thought we would be at this point. It will take another draft and free agent period to fill in the backups but you gotta love what Elway and company have done to date.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:57 PM   #239
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You're right. Rewatching the Chargers game, McGahee always plows ahead for a couple more yards after contact.

While Hillman, Ball, and Moreno go down at first contact. It generally makes a difference of a couple yards, and is the primary reason why McGahee is effective, while the three-legged stool only aspires to be.
Actually, the last year he started, Moreno was among the league leaders in percentage of yards after first contact. If I remember correctly.

looks to be about 64%

http://stats-dont-lie.blogspot.com/2...ntact-for.html
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:57 PM   #240
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Yup. McGahee doesn't have a lot of speed and isn't a home run hitter but he finds the holes and maximizes them pretty well. And he gets some yards after contact. He's gonna be missed more than some think.

Legwold puts it well here:



Read more: Willis McGahee's injury will force big decisions in Broncos run game - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...#ixzz2CnS7lqaL
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse
not only that, he hits the hole hard and with violence.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:17 PM   #241
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You're right. Rewatching the Chargers game, McGahee always plows ahead for a couple more yards after contact.

While Hillman, Ball, and Moreno go down at first contact. It generally makes a difference of a couple yards, and is the primary reason why McGahee is effective, while the three-legged stool only aspires to be.
I know I basically outined a couple pages back what I thought Maghee brought to the table that the other RBs do not. He consistently turns a 2 yard gain into a 4 yard gain. Come the 4th r those 4 yards gains turn into a 10 yard gain and clock eater

Example: After Willis went out I know for a fact Hillman missed the correct hole BTW a huge hole on teh left size basically could have walked backwards into the endzone but he went right a a yard gain and they had to settle for a FG when a TD there would have been huge

Some ppl on here expect AD when that is not what Willis is but he provides a skill set that I think the others will have a hard time matching


Hope I'm wrong and someone steps up
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:29 PM   #242
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Example: After Willis went out I know for a fact Hillman missed the correct hole BTW a huge hole on teh left size basically could have walked backwards into the endzone but he went right a a yard gain and they had to settle for a FG when a TD there would have been huge


Hope I'm wrong and someone steps up
Yep. I think you're talking about the play where it was 2nd and goal at the 8. Hillman got the handoff, and headed towards a gaping hole over the Left Guard. Weddle started to sprint up from the endzone, and Hillman veered right to bounce it around the right edge. A Defensive Lineman fought through his block and tackled Hillman for a 1 yard gain, as Ronnie. Ronnie could have easily ran the ball down to the 4 or 5 yard line on that play if he ran through the hole.

The next play (3rd and goal), Manning completed a pass to Lance Ball down to the 1...then we kicked a FG.

I thought, at that time, that if McGahee were in, we'd have a good shot of scoring a TD instead of an FG.

McGahee might have been able to pick up a 1st down, on the last Offensive series too.

These backup RB's have a lot riding on them, but they are in a good situation to succeed. 6 games to go until playoffs.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:37 PM   #243
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Actually, the last year he started, Moreno was among the league leaders in percentage of yards after first contact. If I remember correctly.

looks to be about 64%

http://stats-dont-lie.blogspot.com/2...ntact-for.html
That's cool. Well, this is a good time to show it. That would be freaking hysterical if Knowshon emerges as a solid option. As long as somebody is getting 4.0 ypc, I could care less who's in there. As has been stated before. Right now, we are 19th in rushing, hopefully we improve.

I have a lot of respect for Moreno because he was giving up his body when he was hurt last year. The dude is a soldier, not a wimp. You can't fault him, as long as he is running hard.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:53 PM   #244
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not only that, he hits the hole hard and with violence.
McGahee is grossly under appreciated on this board
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:55 PM   #245
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That's cool. Well, this is a good time to show it. That would be freaking hysterical if Knowshon emerges as a solid option. As long as somebody is getting 4.0 ypc, I could care less who's in there. As has been stated before. Right now, we are 19th in rushing, hopefully we improve.

I have a lot of respect for Moreno because he was giving up his body when he was hurt last year. The dude is a soldier, not a wimp. You can't fault him, as long as he is running hard.
Our running scheme was just so painfully bad under McDaniels....it's honestly hard to tell if Moreno is underrated or overrated. He has at least flashed skills, which is what gives me hope.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:59 PM   #246
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Our running scheme was just so painfully bad under McDaniels....it's honestly hard to tell if Moreno is underrated or overrated. He has at least flashed skills, which is what gives me hope.
So true, never seen a Denver running game get stuffed for no gain or a loss more than McDs running scheme.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:10 PM   #247
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McGahee is grossly under appreciated on this board
Mostly because he is not TD or AP someone that can take it all the way on any play. .

They see the flash and wonder what it would be like to score 60 a game. ..

We had that ability with John and TD but always relaxed after we were up 3 scores and in a lot of those games had to fight to the finish to hold on..
The D was on the field a lot and won or lost many of them with last second field goals.

Give me the big back that gets me 3.9 + every carry. He can handle the load as well as the punishment that NFL backs have to take.

If he gets an occasional 20 all the better but kill the clock instead of giving the ball back to the other team after 3 minutes, give your D rest on the sideline and wear down their D. So there is no question about the win afterwards.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:17 PM   #248
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McGahee is grossly under appreciated on this board
Seems like that is a lot of players on the team. Mainly the young guys that don't produce at a pro bowl level their first 2 years. I remember when every one was ready to mail it in on DT.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:20 PM   #249
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I blame it on the instant gratification generations (Last two)
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:26 PM   #250
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McGahee says he thinks he will be back in 5 weeks. He does not need surgery, doc says he just needs to not put too much weight on it for a while. With the new technologies today such as a hyperbolic chamber and the like he could do it. After all look at the injury he came back from at the U and has played for what, 11 years now.

I'm thinking he is ready by the last game of the season for a few snaps anyway.
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