Israel bombs playground in Gaza & fires missile into Syria

[mhgaffney]

Originally Posted by elsid13

Let's be honest, innocent casualties are going to occur when you are fighting an asymmetric conflict in urban environment. The result are horrifying and I wish that they had been spared but there is no way to prevent them.

And the public in general should be aware scenes like we are seeing are only going to get worse as more of the world population moves in cities and urban clusters. The only way to reduce death is to move more to SWAT/SPECOPS like tactics and have extremely good INTEL when you conduct raids.

Of course there's a way to prevent them. You negotiate a truce -- then sit down and try to negotiate a long term peace treaty.

In fact, a more permanent truce was in the works when Israel decided to assassinate the Hamas leader involved in the talks.

This just happened to coincide with the US election. Is there a connection?

I say yes of course there is. This escalation of violence has Israeli PM Netanyahu's fingerprints all over it.

Netanyahu was not pleased that Americans reelected Obama. He wanted Romney. So like a petulant child -- no, actually, more like the sociopath he is -- Netanyahu decided to rattle Obama's cage.

With this escalation of violence -- which was easily avoidable -- Netanyahu is showing his displeasure with America. He is saying, look at me, I can start a war anytime I want. I can drag the US into WW III -- if and when I choose. I can pull down the columns of the temple like Solomon -- and bury western civilization in nuclear ashes.

This is on Netanyahu's shoulders.

MHG

[mhgaffney]

Remember, Netanyahu's father was a terrorist. His cabinet minister Livni's father was also a terrorist.

Like father like son -- like daughter.

The argument that Israel's leaders are different from Hamas -- is therefor nonsense.

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by W*GS

How Reagan Armed Saddam with Chemical Weapons

Since all your sources say the same thing and even overlap each other, I'll address one directly which answers them all.

I'll put aside that every one of your sources is politically left. Here, you're saying the US knew about chemical use against Iranian troops. AND? I've already answered this. Your supposed beef was chemical use against civilians in "genocide," not use of it against Iranian troops.

Since this article overlaps with the next one, most of my points are below.

Your own source debunks your claim of the US participating in genocide via chemical weapons. From the original 2002 NYT article this CounterPunch piece quotes,

Iraq did turn its chemical weapons against the Kurdish population of northern Iraq, but the intelligence officers say they were not involved in planning any of the military operations in which those assaults occurred. They said the reason was that there were no major Iranian troop concentrations in the north and the major battles where Iraq's military command wanted assistance were on the southern war front.

The American intelligence officers never encouraged or condoned Iraq's use of chemical weapons, but neither did they oppose it because they considered Iraq to be struggling for its survival, people involved at the time said in interviews.

Why was this done? As I stated, from your own source:

''Having gone through the 440 days of the hostage crisis in Iran,'' he said, ''the period when we were the Great Satan, if Iraq had gone down it would have had a catastrophic effect on Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, and the whole region might have gone down. That was the backdrop of the policy.''

...

A number of D.I.A. officers who took part in aiding Iraq more than a decade ago when its military was actively using chemical weapons, now say they believe that the United States should overthrow Mr. Hussein at some point. But at the time, they say, they all believed that their covert assistance to Mr. Hussein's military in the mid-1980's was a crucial factor in Iraq's victory in the war and the containment of a far more dangerous threat from Iran.

If you care to read your own sources, you'll see the Kurdish incidents occurred AFTER the end of the war, not during it, and not with any semblance of help from Westerners, period.

Do you want proof that the earth orbits the sun as well, Mr. Relativist?

False comparison as is shown by your inability to prove your assertions.

Yet again it must be repeated: You say it's OK and within the democratic rights of Syrians to elect a president who engages in the invasion of Israel and attempted annihilation of millions of Jews, yet it's not OK for Americans to elect a president who engages in the protection of an allied nation against the attacks of Mullahs who want this country and its Middle Eastern alleis destroyed. Your blind defense of Isalmists is repulsive, though not surprising. Islamists are one of the causes du jour of the modern Left.

Laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.

I'd strongly suggest you look more closely at CounterPunch. They're one of those false-front Lefty outfits that claim to be "independent investigative journalists" who only say negative things about the United States and capitalism.

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by W*GS

You desperately want to believe that Israel is very very careful in attacking Palestinians.

20 dead children says otherwise.

But, being a hardcore right-winger, you'll never let the facts get in the way of your faith.

And you're ... something ... enough to draw a moral equivalence between people accidentally killed in a conflict by the use of weapons largely designed for precise usage, such as



in which they even waited for cars nearby by pass through, as opposed to people who knowingly and gleefully fire randomly at civilian areas hoping to get mass civilian kill to satiate their blood thirst.

If only suicide bombers would wait for cars to pass by, but that would defeat the point, wouldn't it?

And oh yeah, you're a moral paragon and ****. Really. And this astute morality of yours happens to be perfectly aligned with the political segment of the world hostile against the United States and Western society.

The fact that so few Palestinians have died proves my point and undercuts your argument. You do notice that, right? So does Hamas' continued usage of faked photographs of death and suffering, apparently needing to borrow some from Syria and God knows where else.

Guess not... D'oh.

There is no remote equivalent to random rocket attacks and suicide bombings in buses and pizzerias that the Islamists attempt at every opportunity. NONE.

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

Remember, Netanyahu's father was a terrorist. His cabinet minister Livni's father was also a terrorist.

Like father like son -- like daughter.

The argument that Israel's leaders are different from Hamas -- is therefor nonsense.

What are you referring to? Be specific.

[Meck77]

Originally Posted by W*GS

We already have one gaffe. We don't need another.

We already have two groups of people who believe they are "chosen" people. We don't need another group/country to get into the mix. Only matter of time as these nuts kill one another more and more.

[Requiem]

Benzion was crazy.

[LongDongJohnson]

Screw israel

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

Of course there's a way to prevent them. You negotiate a truce -- then sit down and try to negotiate a long term peace treaty.

This is on Netanyahu's shoulders.

So since no other supporters of the Arabs can explain, perhaps you can do it for us:

Why have the Arabs turned down multiple opportunities for a two-state solution, ones in which the Jews agreed to, even ones in which Jews were given far less land than the Arabs were given?

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by Meck77

We already have two groups of people who believe they are "chosen" people. We don't need another group/country to get into the mix. Only matter of time as these nuts kill one another more and more.

At least militant Zionists don't think the entire planet belongs to them.

[Rohirrim]

Since Zionism and jihad are equally silly, it's kind of fitting that these two idiotic cultures get to bash each others' brains out for eternity.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

Here, you're saying the US knew about chemical use against Iranian troops. AND? I've already answered this. Your supposed beef was chemical use against civilians in "genocide," not use of it against Iranian troops.

We didn't care about Saddam using chemical weapons against anyone (even helped him with 'em) until GWB decided Saddam was a problem. More of your ethics- and morality-free political pragmatism at work.

Hell, I'm surprised you even think helping Saddam with chemical weapons is any sort of problem. I'm surprised you supported the overthrow of Saddam. He's precisely the sort of bastard you excuse time and time again.

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

Yet again it must be repeated: You say it's OK and within the democratic rights of Syrians to elect a president who engages in the invasion of Israel and attempted annihilation of millions of Jews,

Syria is Israel's problem.

Your problem (one of many) is a complete lack of consistency and a total disregard for human rights.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

And oh yeah, you're a moral paragon and ****. Really. And this astute morality of yours happens to be perfectly aligned with the political segment of the world hostile against the United States and Western society.

It's your realpolitik that makes the world hostile to us.

Think on that for a minute, son.

[Requiem]

I don't think someone who was a Communist (nyuk nyuk) has any right preaching about morality, but what is a lonesome, middle-aged turd of a person to do with their free time?

Apparently sending "hard" emails to elected officials, hating on liberals, and tweeting professional football players criqitues of their game when she doesn't know dick about it.

Sounds about right.

[mhgaffney]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

So since no other supporters of the Arabs can explain, perhaps you can do it for us:

Why have the Arabs turned down multiple opportunities for a two-state solution, ones in which the Jews agreed to, even ones in which Jews were given far less land than the Arabs were given?

Every statement you made is factually wrong.

The history of the conflict has been as bitterly contested as the conflict itself. Unfortunately, the truth has not been told in the west. The Zionist version of events has prevailed, and it is based on lies.

Sorry, but this is the case.

To take just one of your statements -- that the Jews were given less land. Nonsense. In 1947 -- even though Jews made up a small percentage of the total population compared with the Palestinians -- they were given over half the land.

This was the UN partition plan. Nor did the land belong to the UN to give away. They had no right to do so. The native people were never even consulted about the expropriation of their own country.

Not that the Zionists had any intention of abiding by the partition. Their plan from the start was to take all of Palestine for themselves. This is exactly what they did -- though they did not finish the project until June 1967.

I suggest you do some serious reading. One excellent summary is THE GUN AND THE OLIVE BRANCH by David Hirst. Fine book.

MHG

[mhgaffney]

PCR's latest hits the nail, as usual.

PCR makes an astute observation about Obama's recent statement that "no state would tolerate rockets raining down on its people.." a reference to the Hamas rockets fired at Israel.

But of course many states do tolerate US rockets raining down on them -- murdering their people -- in places like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, etc etc. They "tolerate" US war crimes because there is nothing they can do about it.

PCR also correctly compares Gaza with the Warsaw Ghetto.

MHG

Puppet State America

By Paul Craig Roberts

November 19, 2012 "Information Clearing House" - The United States government and its subject peoples think of the US as “the world’s only superpower.” But how is a country a superpower when its entire government and a majority of the subjects, especially those members of evangelical churches, grovel at the feet of the Israeli Prime Minister? How is a country a superpower when it lacks the power to determine its own foreign policy in the Middle East? Such a country is not a superpower. It is a puppet state.

In the past few days we have witnessed, yet again, the “American superpower” groveling at Netanyahu’s feet. When Netanyahu decided to again murder the Palestinian women and children of Gaza, to further destroy what remains of the social infrastructure of the Gaza Ghetto, and to declare Israeli war crimes and Israeli crimes against humanity to be merely the exercise of “self-defense,” the US Senate, the US House of Representatives, the White House, and the US media all promptly declared their support for Netanyahu’s crimes.

On November 16 the Congress of the “superpower,” both House and Senate, passed overwhelmingly the resolutions written for them by AIPAC, the Israel Lobby known as the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the only foreign agent that is not required to register as a foreign agent. The Global News Service of the Jewish People reported their power over Washington with pride. Both Democrats and Republicans shared the dishonor of serving Israel and evil instead of America and justice for the Palestinians.

The White House quickly obeyed the summons from the Israel Lobby. President Obama announced that he is “fully supportive” of Israel’s assault on Gaza. Ben Rhodes, White House deputy national security adviser, told the media on November 17 that the White House “wants the same thing as the Israelis want.” This is an overstatement as many Israelis oppose the crimes of the Israeli government, which is not the government of Israel but the government of the “settlers,” that is, the crazed land-hungry immigrants who are illegally, with Netanyahu’s support, stealing the lands of the Palestinians.

Netanyahu’s Israel is the equivalent of the Lincoln Republicans 150 years ago. Then there was no international law to protect Southern states, who left the voluntary union, a right under the Constitution, in order to avoid being exploited by Northern business interests. Subsequently, the Union army, after devastating the South, turned on the American Indians, and there was no international law to protect American Indians from being murdered and dispossessed by Washington’s armies.

Washington claimed that its invasion forces were threatened by the Indian’s bows and arrows. Today there is international law to protect the Palestinian residents of the West Bank and Gaza. However, every time that the world tries to hold the Israeli government accountable for its crimes, Israel’s Washington puppet vetoes the UN decision.

The notion that Israel is threatened by Palestinians is as absurd as the notion that the US is threatened by Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Pakistan, and Iran. No government of any of these countries has ever made a threatening statement against the US. Even had such a statement been made, it would be meaningless. If a Superpower can be threatened by such impotent and distant counties, then it is not a superpower.

Demonizing a victim is a way of hiding state crimes. The American print and TV media is useless as a check on state crimes. The only crimes reported by the media are assigned to “terrorists,” that is, those who resist US hegemony, and to Americans, such as Bradley Manning and Sibel Edmonds, who liberate truth from official secrecy. Julian Assange of WikiLeaks remains in danger despite the asylum granted to him by the President of Ecuador, as Washington has little regard for international law.

In the US the exercise of the First Amendment is coming to be regarded as a crime against the state. The purpose of the media is no longer to find the truth, but to protect official lies. Speaking the truth has essentially disappeared as it is too costly to journalist who dare to do so. To keep one’s job, one serves Washington and the private interest groups that Washington serves.

In his November 19 defense of Israel’s latest war crimes, President Obama said: “no country on earth would tolerate missiles raining down from outside its borders.” But, of course, numerous countries do tolerate missiles raining down from the US. The war criminal Obama is raining down missiles in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Yemen, and has rained missiles on Libya, Somalia, Iraq and Syria as well. Iran might be next.

The German assault on the Warsaw Ghetto is one of the horror stories of Jewish history. Such an event is happening again, only this time Jews are perpetrators instead of victims. No hand has been raised to stay Israel from the goal of the operation declared by Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai to be “to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages.”

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and associate editor of the Wall Street Journal. He was columnist for Business Week, Scripps Howard News Service, and Creators Syndicate. He has had many university appointments. His internet columns have attracted a worldwide following.

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Originally Posted by Requiem

I did Nazi that one coming. Anne Frankley, neither did Jew!

lol bad pun is bad

[Rohirrim]

I wonder what strategy PCR would recommend if he knew there were religious zealots determined to kill him in any way they possibly could (in fact, they believed it was their religious duty) and like-minded individuals in some state were giving them shelter and support while these jihadists hatched plans, and built weapons, to carry out these terrorist acts against him?

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

Yeah, except that the footage of Palestinians celebrating had nothing to do with 9/11. That footage was from a different time -- and was recycled as propaganda to make Americans associate Palestinians with terrorism.

Meanwhile, more than 100 Israeli agents were arrested in NYC giving high fives and generally celebrating the WTC collapse.

The NY cops found their behavior to be suspicious and arrested them -- thinking they were A-rabs. Turned out they were Israelis.

Two months later they were quietly deported back to Israel -- and the case was never mentioned again on FOX.

The Israelis should have been questioned thoroughly -- but this never happened. Their release appears to have been orchestrated by Michael Chertoff then at the DOJ. Chertoff later became head of Homeland Security.

MHG

sorry i didnt see this before but well here you go another facepalm just for you

[SoCalBronco]

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

Every statement you made is factually wrong.

The history of the conflict has been as bitterly contested as the conflict itself. Unfortunately, the truth has not been told in the west. The Zionist version of events has prevailed, and it is based on lies.

Sorry, but this is the case.

To take just one of your statements -- that the Jews were given less land. Nonsense. In 1947 -- even though Jews made up a small percentage of the total population compared with the Palestinians -- they were given over half the land.

This was the UN partition plan. Nor did the land belong to the UN to give away. They had no right to do so. The native people were never even consulted about the expropriation of their own country.

Not that the Zionists had any intention of abiding by the partition. Their plan from the start was to take all of Palestine for themselves. This is exactly what they did -- though they did not finish the project until June 1967.

I suggest you do some serious reading. One excellent summary is THE GUN AND THE OLIVE BRANCH by David Hirst. Fine book.

MHG

Gaff, are you at least willing to admit that E.J. Manuel is a more morally blameworthy actor than Netanyahu?

[Odysseus]

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

Israel fires missile into Syria -- and bombs Gaza

The attack on Gaza reportedly killed five Palestinians and wounded dozens.

According to this report - three of the dead were children who were playing football in a playground, which apparently was targeted.

This is not new. We have seen the deliberate targeting of children before.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle33005.htm

The missile attack on Gaza is the first acknowledged attack on Syria by Israel since the 1973 Yom Kippur War. This is worrisome. Here is the story:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/no...syri-n12.shtml

These attacks may point to a conscious decision by Bibi Netanyahu to escalate the stakes in the Mideast.

MHG

If they stop firing rockets FROM the playgrounds then the playgrounds will stop becoming targets.

[elsid13]

Originally Posted by Odysseus

If they stop firing rockets FROM the playgrounds then the playgrounds will stop becoming targets.

There is reason that they fire from playground, near schools, hospitals etc. It all part of their asymmetrical warfare objectives.

[Odysseus]

Originally Posted by elsid13

There is reason that they fire from playground, near schools, hospitals etc. It all part of their asymmetrical warfare objectives.

What amazes me is the repeated threads where posters continue to take stupid pills instead of using common sense.

Question: How do you track a rocket?
Answer: If you have any type of radar made after 1955 you track where it came from.

Question: If you want the rockets to stop shooting what do you do?
Answer: Shoot at the launching point destroying the launch site.

Question: What if the launching site is a playground?
Answer: Destroy the launch point.

1. If you do not respond you are stupid.
2. If your response is "Hey! No fair! There are kids there!" You are stupid
3. If you ask them to stop shooting or else. You are stupid and evil.
4. If you shoot the rockets you can at least save your citizens lives and force the International community to dialog.

The press are being played for fools.....again....This is how the bad guys use our own resources against us. (Art of War - Sun Tze)

Press makes their money on blood....ANYBODY'S BLOOD. They do not care who shot first or why. Press is not paid to think only on outrage and avoiding the messy details.

[Odysseus]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Since Zionism and jihad are equally silly, it's kind of fitting that these two idiotic cultures get to bash each others' brains out for eternity.

The problem is the press does little to present solutions and only throw acid in the face of reason. Honest discussion is subject to infantile politics.

I wish the press would ignore these bastards and let NATO earn the money we pay them.

I fear we live in an error where war is perpetual.

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by W*GS

We didn't care about Saddam using chemical weapons against anyone (even helped him with 'em) until GWB decided Saddam was a problem. More of your ethics- and morality-free political pragmatism at work.

Hell, I'm surprised you even think helping Saddam with chemical weapons is any sort of problem. I'm surprised you supported the overthrow of Saddam. He's precisely the sort of bastard you excuse time and time again.

So you admit the US didn't take part in a gassing genocide. Thanks.

Syria is Israel's problem.

It's the world's problem and as the major stabilizer of world markets and politics, it's our problem. Isolationist leftism isn't the answer, and it never was. Neither is holding your own government and countrymen to a higher and different standard than you do others.

Your problem (one of many) is a complete lack of consistency and a total disregard for human rights.

You have two definitions of human rights: One for us, and one for them. Thus, you're laughable.