10 games in the books - the good & the concerns - Page 2 - The Orange Mane

ZONA · 11-19-2012, 01:50 AM

Champ is definitely struggling a little bit right now, well against the pass that is. He's still very solid against the run, but yes, he is a step slower and response to cuts and moves not quite as quick as usual. We're just used to such high standards from him. He should be fine for another 2 years with this defense, now that it seems like they are clicking, have more all around talent and finally a DC worth a damn. The defense is good enough to win the Superbowl. We just need to get the running game clicking and stop turning the ball over.

Elway 4 Life · 11-19-2012, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZONA

Champ is definitely struggling a little bit right now, well against the pass that is. He's still very solid against the run, but yes, he is a step slower and response to cuts and moves not quite as quick as usual. We're just used to such high standards from him. He should be fine for another 2 years with this defense, now that it seems like they are clicking, have more all around talent and finally a DC worth a damn. The defense is good enough to win the Superbowl. We just need to get the running game clicking and stop turning the ball over.

I agree. This front seven is going to create more and more opportunities for the secondary. As these young DB's get more and more confident the TO's will come flooding in. Champ having lost a step is still in the top tier for CB's in the league.

Rock Chalk · 11-19-2012, 06:19 AM

So interesting stat I read on PK's MMQB column.

The 0-26 consecutive drives without allowing a 3rd down conversion the Broncos had over a 3 game stretch is the longest in over 10 years.

baja · 11-19-2012, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broncos4Life

This has been going on longer than two weeks.

I've been watching him a lot this year. He is not making many plays on
the ball. Looks like hes having trouble tracking the ball. Hes been getting turned around. At CAR he got lots of safety help on Smith. Doesn't look to me like hes shutting anyone down. The only WR I've seen him shut down in recent weeks was Colston.

All I see when the camera is on 24 is a CB 2 steps behind WR's and too late to make a play when the ball is in the air. Looks like hes lost another step in the last 3 weeks. And thats the thing. Carter or Harris would have probably picked off 2 or 3 balls that Champ should have been able to make a play on in last 4 weeks.

Thoughts?

I thought about making a thread about this yesterday. It's probably worth it's own thread.

Rock Chalk · 11-19-2012, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vine

Fox is too conservative and its only a matter of time when it bites him in the ass.

We get it, you hate fox now shut the **** up.

Bacchus · 11-19-2012, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durango

Much of what's crossed my mind is on that list, good & not-so-good, although I think Champ still can be Champ, and DJ Williams helps that LB corps immensely. I was there today, and the Bronco crowd is completely re-energized. It's like the old days, and much less corporate.

Someone once started a thread, 'is Manning the answer?'. I think we know now what that level of QB play can bring to a team. Any team. I know it's a stretch, but I think Manning could've elevated Kansas City to 9-10 wins.'

If you don't have a top tier QB in this league, you're playing for the crumbs left by the teams that do.

What did Champ get beat two or three times Sunday? He played great and he was matched up with Floyd most of the game.

baja · 11-19-2012, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacchus

What did Champ get beat two or three times Sunday? He played great and he was matched up with Floyd most of the game.

Actually Floyd was open several times but Rivers was to busy pooping his pants to hit him. Champ had an off day but the rush saved him.

Mountain Bronco · 11-19-2012, 10:12 AM

The offense also had an off day today IMO. Several missed opportunities that we need to connect on against the better teams. The overthrown ball to Thomas and to Dressen were both big missed plays. That and the fumbles need to get fixed.

That said, SD's defense is a solid D no doubt about it, so overall it was ok, but against the Pats and Texan's you can't leave those points on the field because the Pats and Texans will put up points of their own.

Bigdawg26 · 11-19-2012, 10:26 AM

My only problem is that if you do move champ to S who are going to move out? Moore has been playing great, Mike Adams has been doing a pretty good job (and you don't really want to move Moore or Champ to SS because they won't really hold up), Leonard has been doing well, and Carter comes back next year. In order to get the best guys out there you have to keep Champ at CB. I say keep him CB but don't always line him up against the #1 wide out all the time.

baja · 11-19-2012, 10:29 AM

I still think Champ is our best corner by a bunch and can still play man on man but with certain receivers on some Sundays be quick to give him some help like you would any mortal corner. He's not the player he was but he is still damn good.

pricejj · 11-19-2012, 10:44 AM

The "Champ to Safety" talk is ridiculous.

He basically shut out Mike Wallace, Julio Jones, Andre Johnson, Brandon Lloyd, Marques Colston, A.J. Green, and Steve Smith.

Danario Alexander gets a few catches against him (no TD's) in the second half of a game, where the Broncos Defense only gave up only two 1st downs in the first half, and you want to move him to Safety?

I can see Champ laughing at you, all the way to his 12th Pro-Bowl.

Mountain Bronco · 11-19-2012, 10:50 AM

While I agree that Champ is still a great QB, he did not shut down AJ Green.

Broncos4Life · 11-19-2012, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain Bronco

While I agree that Champ is still a great QB, he did not shut down AJ Green.

This.

Also, check the CAR game again if you can. He did not lock down S. Smith. They doubled him all over the field that day, and he had S help over the top.

Tombstone RJ · 11-19-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡

Tampa Bay will be a bruising game with Doug Martin running down field and Mark Barron delivering the thump.

TB has two players that should be Broncos, Doug Martin and Lavonta Davis (or David). Both-should-be-Broncos!

But hey, we got Twilight, right?

DBroncos4life · 11-19-2012, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broncos4Life

This.

Also, check the CAR game again if you can. He did not lock down S. Smith. They doubled him all over the field that day, and he had S help over the top.

Really no reason not to double Smith thought. Panthers can't run so no reason to bring safeties downly for help. Why let the only guy that can beat you beat you if you don't need too?

DBroncos4life · 11-19-2012, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

TB has two players that should be Broncos, Doug Martin and Lavonta Davis (or David). Both-should-be-Broncos!

But hey, we got Twilight, right?

Quick question where does WW play when we draft David and who replaces Wolfe when we drafted Martin?

Tombstone RJ · 11-19-2012, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

Quick question where does WW play when we draft David and who replaces Wolfe when we drafted Martin?

Point is no need for Twilight. The Bronco could have gotton one of these players and Wolfe. I know, hindsight is 20/20, right?

If Twilight pans out, fine. Otherwise he's a wasted pick IMHO.

NFLBRONCO · 11-19-2012, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja

I still think Champ is our best corner by a bunch and can still play man on man but with certain receivers on some Sundays be quick to give him some help like you would any mortal corner. He's not the player he was but he is still damn good.

If I was Denver though I'd be looking for our next #1 CB to groom in the next 2 yrs.

DBroncos4life · 11-19-2012, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

Point is no need for Twilight. The Bronco could have gotton one of these players and Wolfe. I know, hindsight is 20/20, right?

If Twilight pans out, fine. Otherwise he's a wasted pick IMHO.

You no have proof that Denver still ends up with Wolfe at all here.

pricejj · 11-19-2012, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain Bronco

While I agree that Champ is still a great QB, he did not shut down AJ Green.

1. A.J. Green had one TD, and Champ was right there, almost stripping the ball as Green made a great falling catch out of bounds.
2. The only other big play that Champ gave up to Green, was a 37-yard bomb down the right sideline, where Green pushed off at the last second to create separation.
3. A.J. Green went 5 receptions for 70 yards against Champ Bailey that day (half of it coming on one play).
4. Champ intercepted a pass intended for Green late in the game.

So no, Champ didn't completely shut down Green, but what do you expect? It was a good matchup, with Green getting a TD, and Champ getting an INT.

Is that the only TD Champ has given up all year?

Tombstone RJ · 11-19-2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

You have proof that Denver still ends up with Wolfe at all here.

Of course not, but if this team had Doug Martin the RB issues would be handled and they could have still got Wolfe in the second.

pricejj · 11-19-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

Of course not, but if this team had Doug Martin the RB issues would be handled and they could have still got Wolfe in the second.

Not true. Not true at all. In fact, if Courtney Upshaw hadn't fallen all the way to #35, Baltimore would have taken Wolfe there.

Wolfe should have 5 sacks right now. One was taken away by a Dumervil offsides penalty...and he definitely should have been given credit for a half sack the play he was injured where he and Von sandwiched Rivers.

You are sadly mistaken if you think Wolfe would have lasted to #57.

TonyR · 11-19-2012, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

Of course not, but if this team had Doug Martin the RB issues would be handled and they could have still got Wolfe in the second.

Yup, if the FO had known PM would be healthy and the team this good overall Martin would be an easy choice over Osweiler.

Tombstone RJ · 11-19-2012, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pricejj

Not true. Not true at all. In fact, if Courtney Upshaw hadn't fallen all the way to #35, Baltimore would have taken Wolfe there.

Wolfe should have 5 sacks right now. One was taken away by a Dumervil offsides penalty...and he definitely should have been given credit for a half sack the play he was injured where he and Von sandwiched Rivers.

You are sadly mistaken if you think Wolfe would have lasted to #57.

I never said they that. The Broncos had plenty of draft picks to move around and still get Wolfe in the second.

pricejj · 11-19-2012, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

Quick question where does WW play when we draft David

Nowhere. WW sits the bench behind David at WLB, doesn't develop, and misses out on his All-Pro season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

and who replaces Wolfe when we drafted Martin?

Unrein/Bannan. With no pass-rush on the inside, Von is tripled on every play, and the Broncos get hammered in the playoffs... again.

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11-19-2012, 01:50 AM	#26
ZONA Ring of Famer Liquid greatness in every packet Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,377 Adopt-a-Bronco: Chris Harris	Champ is definitely struggling a little bit right now, well against the pass that is. He's still very solid against the run, but yes, he is a step slower and response to cuts and moves not quite as quick as usual. We're just used to such high standards from him. He should be fine for another 2 years with this defense, now that it seems like they are clicking, have more all around talent and finally a DC worth a damn. The defense is good enough to win the Superbowl. We just need to get the running game clicking and stop turning the ball over.

11-19-2012, 06:19 AM	#28
Rock Chalk Cheeky Bastards Laus Deo Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Backside of the Internet Posts: 29,940 Adopt-a-Bronco: Chris Harris	So interesting stat I read on PK's MMQB column. The 0-26 consecutive drives without allowing a 3rd down conversion the Broncos had over a 3 game stretch is the longest in over 10 years.

11-19-2012, 10:12 AM	#33
Mountain Bronco Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Mountains Posts: 1,446	The offense also had an off day today IMO. Several missed opportunities that we need to connect on against the better teams. The overthrown ball to Thomas and to Dressen were both big missed plays. That and the fumbles need to get fixed. That said, SD's defense is a solid D no doubt about it, so overall it was ok, but against the Pats and Texan's you can't leave those points on the field because the Pats and Texans will put up points of their own.

11-19-2012, 10:26 AM	#34
Bigdawg26 Ring of Famer New to the Forum Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,476 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	My only problem is that if you do move champ to S who are going to move out? Moore has been playing great, Mike Adams has been doing a pretty good job (and you don't really want to move Moore or Champ to SS because they won't really hold up), Leonard has been doing well, and Carter comes back next year. In order to get the best guys out there you have to keep Champ at CB. I say keep him CB but don't always line him up against the #1 wide out all the time.

11-19-2012, 10:29 AM	#35
baja It is what it Is. Pay attention. Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 53,869 Adopt-a-Bronco: Buy My Book	I still think Champ is our best corner by a bunch and can still play man on man but with certain receivers on some Sundays be quick to give him some help like you would any mortal corner. He's not the player he was but he is still damn good.

11-19-2012, 10:44 AM	#36
pricejj jungle Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Louisville, CO Posts: 5,179	The "Champ to Safety" talk is ridiculous. He basically shut out Mike Wallace, Julio Jones, Andre Johnson, Brandon Lloyd, Marques Colston, A.J. Green, and Steve Smith. Danario Alexander gets a few catches against him (no TD's) in the second half of a game, where the Broncos Defense only gave up only two 1st downs in the first half, and you want to move him to Safety? I can see Champ laughing at you, all the way to his 12th Pro-Bowl.

11-19-2012, 10:50 AM	#37
Mountain Bronco Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Mountains Posts: 1,446	While I agree that Champ is still a great QB, he did not shut down AJ Green.