Israel bombs playground in Gaza & fires missile into Syria

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Do you deny that Rumsfeld, under the direction of the Reagan administration, met with Saddam Hussein and promised him considerable US aid in his war against Iran? That he was sold the precursors to chemical weapons? That he used chemical weapons against Iraqi Kurds and other of his enemies?

WTF universe are you in?

Another ad hominem over source claim. This is tiring.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

Uhm, let's see. Well the US participated in helping local Syrians bump off the government.

The Assad regime is far from gone. Hell - you think we should be supporting them because you think Assad is keeping alleged Islamists down.

Do I need to dig up your claim that America has a moral obligation to protect Israel from a (as yet mere potential) Syrian invasion and shove it back in your face? Did you change your mind?

Where's your answer to my question regarding Israel's obligation to protect America? Did it slip your mind?

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

Another ad hominem over source claim. This is tiring.

So, you don't believe the US under Reagan cozied up to Saddam and sold him the precursors to chemical weapons.

You're not in reality, then.

I'm surprised you supported Saddam's removal. We should have continued to prop him up as a bulwark against Islamist expansionism, eh?

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by W*GS

The Assad regime is far from gone. Hell - you think we should be supporting them because you think Assad is keeping alleged Islamists down.

Do I need to dig up your claim that America has a moral obligation to protect Israel from a (as yet mere potential) Syrian invasion and shove it back in your face? Did you change your mind?

Where's your answer to my question regarding Israel's obligation to protect America? Did it slip your mind?

! Are you that out of it or are you intentionally trying to cover up your nonsense? I was referring to the Syrian government that was in the middle of invading Israel and trying to kill off the Jews. You claimed "Americans died for Israel" in the process of this. I ask for the bodies.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

! Are you that out of it or are you intentionally trying to cover up your nonsense? I was referring to the Syrian government that was in the middle of invading Israel and trying to kill off the Jews. You claimed "Americans died for Israel" in the process of this. I ask for the bodies.

Should Americans die to protect Israel? Simple question.

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by W*GS

So, you don't believe the US under Reagan cozied up to Saddam and sold him the precursors to chemical weapons.

You're not in reality, then.

I'm surprised you supported Saddam's removal. We should have continued to prop him up as a bulwark against Islamist expansionism, eh?

Yet again you exchange namecalling for a source.

This is the nonsense in your argument:

You're saying that if you know someone and you have some friendly type of relations with him, and this person you know was dealing with some violent neighbors who were trying to break into his house and harm him, etc., and these same violent neighbors of his also wanted to see YOU gone, and due to this you sell the guy a gun to protect his home from these violent neighbors and this person decides to use the gun you sell him to shoot his wife instead... That YOU are responsible for the guy capping his wife and should be jailed and any else is "amoral."

Well that's effing brilliance if I ever saw it.

First of all, a "precursor" is simply something that can be used to make a chemical weapon; there are many things that are of ordinary use that can be used to make chemical weapons, including things in the grocery store. Selling someone something that can be used in a way of which it is not intended is not evidence that the seller intended the thing to be used that way. Further, let's say for argument's sake that the US outright sold Saddam actual, fully-made chemical weapons. That means nothing, either. Refer to my above example.

You are making claims you cannot substantiate, yet again.

So what exactly are you flapping off about here

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Should Americans die to protect Israel? Simple question.

Prove they are otherwise stop asking baseless questions which you implicitly admit are baseless by your inability to substantiate them.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

Yet again you exchange namecalling for a source.

Do a search. That the Reagan administration cozied up to Saddam (an instance of your perverted realpolitik in action) is not new news, nor is it particularly stunning news. Are you afraid of the truth?

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

This is the nonsense in your argument:

Your lame attempt at an analogy is pathetic.

We knew Saddam was using chemical weapons, and we stuck with him and enabled him to create and use more.

Your relativism prevents you from seeing reality.

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27

Check out this video of IDF strike on Hamas leader today:

Compare that to a random missile or suicide bomb in a restaurant. Notice how they waited until they passed nearby cars? Think the Palestinians would have given the Israelis this kind of deference?

I didn't think so.

See the moral blind spot?

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

Prove they are otherwise stop asking baseless questions which you implicitly admit are baseless by your inability to substantiate them.

You suck at dodging.

Should Americans die to protect Israel? Simple question.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

Think the Palestinians would have given the Israelis this kind of deference?

How do you explain 70 dead Palestinians, including 20 children?

Collateral damage, eh?

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Do a search. That the Reagan administration cozied up to Saddam (an instance of your perverted realpolitik in action) is not new news, nor is it particularly stunning news. Are you afraid of the truth?

I will not do your research for you. This is a copout.

Your lame attempt at an analogy is pathetic.

Then you should be able to shoot it down with little effort. Why haven't you?

We knew Saddam was using chemical weapons, and we stuck with him and enabled him to create and use more.

First you claim we helped him get it (which you don't source), and now you claim we also KNEW he was doing it, which you also don't source. More unsourced claims and pseudo-moral blowups such as --

Your relativism prevents you from seeing reality.

Trying to cover the basic fact that you believe a great many things which you cannot substantiate, even with a simple explanation. People don't believe you because you haven't a pot to piss in and make claims of things you cannot substantiate, NOT because they have "moral relativism" or "no morals." Your acumen for self-deception is quite atmospheric. Nobody with half a brain believes someone who makes claims of thing he continuously fails to provide a shred of evidence for or a reasonable argument in support of. NOBODY.

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by W*GS

How do you explain 70 dead Palestinians, including 20 children?

Collateral damage, eh?

My point made. Zero consideration for random attacks against Israel by the Palestinians. Thanks for your help.

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Do a search. That the Reagan administration cozied up to Saddam

Oh dear... On this very thread you debunked yourself!

Originally Posted by W*GS

...Defend your claim, too.

PS - You can ignore me all you want, but that just shows you're a coward.

This calls for a



if not a

[nyuk nyuk]

Something gaffney and other lunatics won't tell you -- Palestinians don't WANT a compromise, at least the ones ruling Gaza:

At the 0:32 mark, "We don't want no truce or solution. All we want is to strike Tel Aviv."



Further, in a video interview with a leader of Palestinian Islamic Jihad, at the 1:27 mark, "This is impossible, whatever it takes, Islamic Jihad won't put down its weapons. The Islamic Jihad weapon is legitimate and sacred. A compromise over it won't ever be possible."

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by W*GS

You suck at dodging.

Should Americans die to protect Israel? Simple question.

To protect maybe not, but to keep in existence or from being taken over, yes. Cmon Wiggs we couldn't let the jews go under.

We have too many jewish people in America that care about that and they are the best ally in the region.

Right now though israel does well on its own with just money and weapons from the USA>

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

Something gaffney and other lunatics won't tell you -- Palestinians don't WANT a compromise, at least the ones ruling Gaza:

At the 0:32 mark, "We don't want no truce or solution. All we want is to strike Tel Aviv."



Further, in a video interview with a leader of Palestinian Islamic Jihad, at the 1:27 mark, "This is impossible, whatever it takes, Islamic Jihad won't put down its weapons. The Islamic Jihad weapon is legitimate and sacred. A compromise over it won't ever be possible."

oh no no no it was misinterpreted they was saying . lets work with those jews maybe if we ask nice they will let us live in peace .we are a peaceful race. we know 9-11 was done by the jews ,with their remote control jew planes loaded up with peaceful followers of islam

[cutthemdown]

Also any civilian deaths are all on Hamas. They are the ones that force Israel to close up the strip. When they don't missiles and weapons come in like crazy. They still do but its worst with no blockade.

big deal so israel has to clean house again. Every 10 yrs they need a little war over there to gt rid of all the missiles and weapons they stockpile. Literally the lulls are only because the Palestinians run low on weapons. Then it takes them a few yrs to restock. Then they start firing missiles again.

israel will go in and sacrifice some troops to weed out the stockpiles of missiles, and too seize some unfired missiles to see how technology has advanced on the strip etc etc.

[cutthemdown]

Pretty scary though watching Egypts leader get all spiritual when his Imman is talking about destroying the west.

I hope they cut off all foreign aid in the fiscal cliff negotiations. We use that money to avoid war but IMO Egypt and Pakistan should be cut off. We are getting a good enough return on the investment.

Meanwhile Iran inching closer to the bomb so they can draw a line in the sand. They are the only country we should be worrying about IMO.

I'm starting to love Obamas strategy on Syria. Since neither side palatable just let them use up their weapons and lives. Looks like the worry of violence spilling over is unstoppable now anyways. Its spilled already!

I think our govt mishandled Egypt. Should have propped up Mubarak. But they played it right in Libya and Syria just sort of letting them kill each other off. Messy situation where probably no president could make decisions that avoid the end game. Everyone knows Jews and Muslims will fight for as long as the world survives. It's almost like we are the boxing referee but we the fight fixed for Israel.

Still America just has way more in common with the jews then we do the Muslims. Socially and cultural its closer, and we will never not stand with them.

Even if we are getting less religious, I really think our govt has enough Christians to see them as gods chosen people.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

I will not do your research for you. This is a copout.

Rumsfeld 'offered help to Saddam'

How Reagan Armed Saddam with Chemical Weapons

Arming Iraq: A Chronology of U.S. Involvement

The Saddam in Rumsfeld’s Closet

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

Nobody with half a brain believes someone who makes claims of thing he continuously fails to provide a shred of evidence for or a reasonable argument in support of. NOBODY.

Do you want proof that the earth orbits the sun as well, Mr. Relativist?

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

My point made. Zero consideration for random attacks against Israel by the Palestinians. Thanks for your help.

You desperately want to believe that Israel is very very careful in attacking Palestinians.

20 dead children says otherwise.

But, being a hardcore right-winger, you'll never let the facts get in the way of your faith.

[elsid13]

Originally Posted by W*GS

How do you explain 70 dead Palestinians, including 20 children?

Collateral damage, eh?

Let's be honest, innocent casualties are going to occur when you are fighting an asymmetric conflict in urban environment. The result are horrifying and I wish that they had been spared but there is no way to prevent them.

And the public in general should be aware scenes like we are seeing are only going to get worse as more of the world population moves in cities and urban clusters. The only way to reduce death is to move more to SWAT/SPECOPS like tactics and have extremely good INTEL when you conduct raids.

[Meck77]

Let's really be honest Elsid. Imagine if over the last couple decades your friend, neighbor, cousin, and daughter were blown to bits. That's the reality for most palestinians. Yeah Israel has had their losses, and I don't know the exact numbers but last time Israel invaded gaza something like 4,000 palestinians were wasted.

I certainly don't have the answers. Hell both groups think they are choosen people by GOD and they can't do wrong. Sooner or later the situation will boil over there and will probably be the end of the world as we know it.

*edit* Hate is not beaten by hate. Especially when the jews vs muslim holy war is essentially world wide. Smashing 1.6 million people in gaza, destroying Egypt, syria, even Iran wouldn't fix the problem.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by Meck77

Sooner or later the situation will boil over there and will probably be the end of the world as we know it.

We already have one gaffe. We don't need another.

[mhgaffney]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Also any civilian deaths are all on Hamas. They are the ones that force Israel to close up the strip. When they don't missiles and weapons come in like crazy. They still do but its worst with no blockade.

big deal so israel has to clean house again. Every 10 yrs they need a little war over there to gt rid of all the missiles and weapons they stockpile. Literally the lulls are only because the Palestinians run low on weapons. Then it takes them a few yrs to restock. Then they start firing missiles again.

israel will go in and sacrifice some troops to weed out the stockpiles of missiles, and too seize some unfired missiles to see how technology has advanced on the strip etc etc.

As usual -- Cut is clueless.