Where does the GOP go from here?

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Of course.

He/she made that clear right from his/her first post back from exile.

Yep, reading drama llamas subsequent posts it's rather clear he's learned nothing. Righty fever is tough to cure.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

Obama lost 7 million votes from 08 to now. He got his ass kicked in between. What's next? Not bad news for the GOP, methinks. Obama bled votes and barely got out alive, and the media are hiding by making up garbage about the mighty Latino amnesty vote (even though Latino polls continually show that amnesty isn't a big issue with them).

Dream on, dude.

Obama kicked Romney's ass despite near 8% unemployment and you're going to talk about him losing votes from 08 to 12? Sad, desperate, and pathetic.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by TonyR

Sad, desperate, and pathetic.

Those terms are "nyuk, nyuk" in a nutshell.

[Bronco Yoda]

Originally Posted by Taco John

The truth of the future is that libertarianism is the new centrism - fiscally conservative, socially liberal.

Who are these mythical creatures? Where do they reside?

I made a list of friends, acquaintances & relatives from all over the country that consider themselves Libertarians. Not just people who relate to the TeaParty but Libertarian. NOT ONE could be remotely considered neutral on most social issues let alone liberal.

What gives here? What am I missing?

What is your definition of socially liberal?

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by Bronco Yoda

Who are these mythical creatures? Where do they reside?

TJ is believing the LP mantra - that most Americans are really Libertarians, they just don't know it.

It's bull****.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by W*GS

TJ is believing the LP mantra - that most Americans are really Libertarians, they just don't know it.

It's bull****.

I've never said that. I think most people are trying to get something for nothing, and expect to have someone else pay for it - and calling such entitlement a human right.

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by Taco John

I've never said that. I think most people are trying to get something for nothing, and expect to have someone else pay for it - and calling such entitlement a human right.

considring we all pay taxes in one form or another,there is no way of getting something for nothing.

[Bronco Yoda]

Originally Posted by Taco John

I've never said that. I think most people are trying to get something for nothing, and expect to have someone else pay for it - and calling such entitlement a human right.

Thanks for answering my question. It says a lot.

[baja]

Originally Posted by Bronco Yoda

Thanks for answering my question. It says a lot.

What does it say to you?

There are many shades of gray.

TJ is more a humanist that his political views seem to indicate.

He's no Garcia or W*GS

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

Such nonsensical standards could also be used to justify killing already born humans.

I'm not an anti-abortion stalwart by any means, but to argue for it by citing the limits of science is simply stupid.

Are born humans a collection of cells? No? Then you're wrong.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Taco John

I've never said that. I think most people are trying to get something for nothing, and expect to have someone else pay for it - and calling such entitlement a human right.

That was Romney's exact sentiment.

We just saw how that turned out for him.

[baja]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

That was Romney's exact sentiment.

We just saw how that turned out for him.

Romney is the embodiment of David Icke's archetype, the Reptilian Blood Line.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

Well I guess if you can't add votes, I don't know what to tell you.

In 2010:

Latinos rank education, jobs and health care as the top three voting issues this election cycle, according to the survey. Immigration ranks as the fifth most important issue to registered Latino voters.

So, your "argument" is: If Latinos rank education and jobs ahead of immigration, then immigration "isn't a big issue" for them (your words.)

If I thought it would help, I'd recommend that you take a course in elementary logic at your local community college, but I realize your need to maintain your denial re: the ass whooping your party just experienced trumps all other priorities at the moment.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by baja

Romney is the embodiment of David Icke's archetype, the Reptilian Blood Line.

And libertarian economic philosophy is an even more extreme form of "I got mine - screw everybody else."

[Odysseus]

Originally Posted by Taco John

I've never said that. I think most people are trying to get something for nothing, and expect to have someone else pay for it - and calling such entitlement a human right.

Henry Ford and many of the industrial giants created a world where this kind of welfare promise was initiated. "What is good for GM is good for the nation".

What do you call it when you promise to take care of people the remainder of their lives and then change your mind about it?

I agree with your position that there are a lot of people who think the world owes them something but where most people fail is remembering where this core value, or lack of, comes from.

The best way to change something isn't to destroy the basic trusts that were established but to re-negotiate which requires something our current political environment is too childish to do. Find a solution that meets the wider concern instead taking the winner versus victim approach.

I believe most Americans WOULD be Libertarian if they knew what it really meant.

[baja]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

And libertarian economic philosophy is an even more extreme form of "I got mine - screw everybody else."

Libertarian is a enigma of sorts. One the one hand it's a fierce protector of individual rights, on the other it is cruel and void of compassion of others circumstance.

The first part is what appeals to the TJs of the world while the second part defines the Romneys of the world.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by baja

Libertarian is a enigma of sorts. One the one hand it's a fierce protector of individual rights, on the other is cruel and void of compassion of others circumstance.

The first part is what appeals to the TJs of the world while the second part defines to the Romneys of the world.

TJ's posts make it quite clear that he subscribes to both positions.

It's obvious that, just like Romney, he regards those less fortunate than himself as a bunch of parasites.

His labeling of benefits like SS that people have worked all their lives to pay for as "entitlements" tells you all you need to know.

[baja]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

TJ's posts make it quite clear that he subscribes to both positions.

It's obvious that, just like Romney, he regards those less fortunate than himself as a bunch of parasites.

His labeling of benefits like SS that people have worked all their lives to pay for as "entitlements" tells you all you need to know.

We have both been reading his posts for over ten years. Taking that into account causes me to believe he is not the psychopath that a Romney is. He has thousands of posts indicating to the contrary. I suspect he does believe there is enough abundance for all and a safety net is good and necessary for a well functioning society.

[Play2win]

The Uber-rich has benefitted immensely from America. The uber-rich has made an absolute ton of money because of the great economical environment that American has provided them with. It is right for the uber-rich to pay a fair price for the incredible service America has provided them.

I look at it somewhat like student loans. Student loans provide a vehicle to increase you income, worth and success through education. When you start making a lot of money, it is right to pay a fair price for the service that educational loans provided you.

Now, how fair the current price for student loans and education is– is very debatable, but the point still remains.

[Taco John]

Don't talk to me about compassion if you voted for a guy who drone bombs children. I'm not vulgar enough to post the images of Obama's atrocities here, but they're available for anyone who wants to see them. It turns out dead kids are just as dead under Obama as they were under Bush.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by baja

TJ is more a humanist that his political views seem to indicate.

A humanist is exactly what I am - and that especially includes where economics are concerned.

[Meck77]

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[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

Originally Posted by Taco John

I've never said that. I think most people are trying to get something for nothing, and expect to have someone else pay for it - and calling such entitlement a human right.

You really think "most people" believe that? Really?

I'm sure some people do, just like some people inherit money, sit on their asses and demand tax cuts, and some people put their money in tax shelters overseas instead of spending that money in the economy. But MOST? You have a very low opinion of your fellow Americans.

[Rohirrim]

Theory is nice. It's like a game where you take the values you learned and believe in and adapt human society to an imaginary matrix which you find comfortable. Once you've worked out all the kinks in your little imaginary creation, you can then began to debate how wonderful it will all work when your little theory gets applied to the real world. Unfortunately, the real world does not adapt itself to your dream world.

For one thing, there are a lot of dumb people. That's just a fact. If you have a matrix where you think everybody is going to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and apply personal entrepreneurship and intelligence to pursue their own ends and create their own destiny, you're wrong. Many people are just not smart enough to do that, even if you try to educate them. They need to make a living too. And obviously, depending on the price of housing, goods and services, it's questionable whether they can make enough in the real economy to sustain themselves. Especially if your first world economy decides to send all the manufacturing offshore and not give these people employment opportunities. Certainly, there is a whole swath of Americans who can't hope to earn enough to save and plan for a time in their life when they can no longer work. Their only plan is to work til they drop.

So, you're going to get rid of all the "entitlement" programs, cut them out of your health care solution, cut education, allow a laissez faire economy where corporations are free to seek their highest profit margins (which might include sending all of their manufacturing facilities offshore), and then you are going to expect the entire population to thrive in this new, libertarian environment of self reliance? Sure, the smart ones will. They'll adapt. Go into retraining. Pick new, more profitable paths presented by the changing world. Just like in nature, those who have the capacity to adapt will find new niches and survive, and those who won't, or more importantly, can't, will not.

So then we must ask ourselves, is there any humanity in our imaginary matrix? Or is it just a reflection of our technological minds? Machine like? Devoid of imperfection? Ignoring human reality? Or no more involved than the jungle law of survival that we (supposedly) left behind us a million years ago?

The truth is, we are all just like Romney. When we create our perfect little imaginary utopian matrix we have already, in our minds, eliminated 47% of the world's people out of our plan. What happens to them? The dumb? The ignorant? The handicapped? The sick? The illiterate? The elderly? The ones your brave new technological world leave behind?

Nature is imperfect. In the old Victorian era, the Rousseauians saw nature as perfect, and if man would just return to his natural state, all would be well. But nature is chaos. Nature is a nice sunset and a babbling brook, but it is also a hurricane, a lion ripping the guts out of an impala, and a baby chick falling from the nest to be devoured alive by ants. Modeling our world after nature might be a neat, and attractive solution, but it is not humane.

Perhaps, when we consider creating our little imaginary utopian matrices, we should not allow ourselves to be so influenced by nature, or even the machined techological grid we have created to support us? Perhaps we should reach higher than that? Apply our consciousness? Apply our heart? And like Hippocrates said, "First, do no harm."

[Odysseus]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Don't talk to me about compassion if you voted for a guy who drone bombs children. I'm not vulgar enough to post the images of Obama's atrocities here, but they're available for anyone who wants to see them. It turns out dead kids are just as dead under Obama as they were under Bush.

Oddly enough war isn't as neat and tidy as we would like it to be. Our soldiers are hamstrung by all types of "rules of engagement". Why have a war when the only thing we are allowed to kill are our own resources?

How we got here and how we are leaving have changed but oddly enough we forget that.