Where does the GOP go from here?

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by houghtam

“The 41 percent of Americans who now identify themselves as ‘pro-choice’ is down from 47 percent last July… Fifty percent now call themselves ‘pro-life…”

And this is where labels will get you in trouble.

Exit polling from this past Tuesday shows that nearly 60% of Americans believe abortion should be legal.

I still hope one day it won't be, and that the people agree with that. Who knows maybe in 100 yrs when we solve more social problems, if we do. We could reach a point someday, of enlightenment and prospierty, where society looks back at killing unborn babies as barbaric.

[cutthemdown]

Repubs have already shown their hand. They will embrace immigration reform, and open up to raising revenue through the closing of loopholes.

Obama will have to counter with accepting the loopholes, and trying to get something from the rich. Not sure repubs will just let him raise them the way he wants. I dont see the poltiical motivation from them for that. IMO Obama has more to gain by dealing, and more to lose by not. Also not like he ever has to worry about raising money again, except for his library someday. Obama may deal more then liberals would like. And i think repubs will do some things the far right hates, like accepting immigration reform that grants citzenship to illegal immigrants, and changes the way we handle immigration.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Repubs have already shown their hand. They will embrace immigration reform, and open up to raising revenue through the closing of loopholes.

Obama will have to counter with accepting the loopholes, and trying to get something from the rich. Not sure repubs will just let him raise them the way he wants. I dont see the poltiical motivation from them for that. IMO Obama has more to gain by dealing, and more to lose by not. Also not like he ever has to worry about raising money again, except for his library someday. Obama may deal more then liberals would like. And i think repubs will do some things the far right hates, like accepting immigration reform that grants citzenship to illegal immigrants, and changes the way we handle immigration.

Your mistake here is thinking that Obama is the one with the weak hand. He's not. Boehner is. McConnell is. And they know it. Which is why Boehner is already making conciliatory statements about Obamacare and immigration. The trend is going against them and they didn't get where they are by being unable to read the message of the electorate. They also know that they are stuck between the rock of Obama's victory and the hard place of the screaming Right fringe.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Your mistake here is thinking that Obama is the one with the weak hand. He's not. Boehner is. McConnell is. And they know it. Which is why Boehner is already making conciliatory statements about Obamacare and immigration. The trend is going against them and they didn't get where they are by being unable to read the message of the electorate. They also know that they are stuck between the rock of Obama's victory and the hard place of the screaming Right fringe.

Exactly. If the tax cuts expire, everyone's taxes go up. Easymode campaigning for the Dems in 2014 - "so-and-so signed the pledge, taxes got raised anyway, so-and-so is at fault." Revenue will increase by a ton, the budget will be easier to balance, and the Dems will get credit.

OR the Republicans can compromise, allow the upper level cuts expire while extending them for the middle class, they will look like great compromisers going into 2014, could probably pick up some more seats in Congress in the midterm, and begin work on immigration reform to put them in a good position for 2016.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by houghtam

Does the same apply for anti-gay, or do you draw the line there?

Not picking a fight, I'm just curious what your thoughts on the whole Chik-fil-A thing was, and I'm too lazy to go look up to see if you ever weighed in.

I'm definitely against government being anti-gay, or anti-any people. Government's job is to protect life, liberty, and property and do so regardless of race, sex or creed.

What does Chik-fil-A have to do with government?

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by Taco John

I'm definitely against government being anti-gay, or anti-any people. Government's job is to protect life, liberty, and property and do so regardless of race, sex or creed.

What does Chik-fil-A have to do with government?

It wasn't about government, it was about you personally. You said I'd just as soon know who's racist so I know where not to spend my money. I was just curious if that applied to anti-gay businesses for you, as well.

[gunns]

Originally Posted by Taco John

The long road to recovery. They tried to get one last fix with an establishment candidate. They told themselves that it would be enough to carry them over. The hated Obama enough, and had more than enough money. What they forgot is that they need a message. Hating Obama isn't a message. You have to actually believe in something. What does Mitt Romney believe in? Everything.

The next Republican will be formidable. He'll have a clear and inspirational message. He'll speak to the entirety of the Reagan coalition, from libertarian, to blue-dog democrats. And he'll win big.

I remember hearing this after Clinton's second election. And the Republican did win, but not big, not even the popular vote. But as has been stated, a fiscal conservative and one moderate on social issues I believe too will win. For me, that's Huntsman. An amazing politician. I will never forgive Obama for calling him as Ambassador to China and leaving our state with garbage.

[baja]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Your mistake here is thinking that Obama is the one with the weak hand. He's not. Boehner is. McConnell is. And they know it. Which is why Boehner is already making conciliatory statements about Obamacare and immigration. The trend is going against them and they didn't get where they are by being unable to read the message of the electorate. They also know that they are stuck between the rock of Obama's victory and the hard place of the screaming Right fringe.

With Congress' popularity at a whooping 5% the republicans best chance at re-election would be to compromise and I bet they do.

[gunns]

Originally Posted by bronc_fan23

Exactly, we shouldn't pay attention to what liberals say about what way the GOP should go. They would have us move to the left and so that we can become a nation of one party rule. (which is why they like Huntsmann)

You obviously know nothing about Huntsman.

There will always be Americans who will listen to a message of individual liberty, limited government, and economic freedom. The GOP lost its way because they like big government when it suits their needs, but rail against it when the other guys in power. Consistency earns you the respect of independents and excites the Republican base. Consistency means Republicans need to realize that big government includes the military industrial complex, and foreign wars abroad.

Agreed. Finally someone who sees Republicans doing what they stereotype Dems for.

This also means the Republicans need to stop fitting everyone in their little box, there is common ground to be found with everyone. These litmus and purity tests that Republicans tend to have are a losing formula. Obama will run this country into the ground the next four years, there will be opportunity for the GOP, but only if they do it correctly.

A little extreme and dramatic. The problem is the Republicans attempted to portray the last 4 years the same, and at least half of Americans saw what Obama had inherited from the GOP and that he did not run the country into the ground. While many saw this as an extremely close election it really was not and the GOP should see that more than anyone. They still operated on stereotypes and did not think they needed to worry about the "traditional non-voters", normally leaning democratic, part of the "47%, young, minorities, and poor. This is why they were so confident in the election. They need to wake up and not just put on the appearance of changing their views, but actually act on them. Yes the next 4 years will be different as it's all Obamas now and we do need to be in a better place than now or the American public will definitely be in it for a change but not to the GOP if there isn't dramatic change.

Response in red, have to write something to submit.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by houghtam

It wasn't about government, it was about you personally. You said I'd just as soon know who's racist so I know where not to spend my money. I was just curious if that applied to anti-gay businesses for you, as well.

I don't have a Chick-fil-A in my area.

I didn't really pay attention to that whole fracas, to be honest. Did they say they weren't serving gay people or something?

As far as me personally, I voted in favor of allowing gay people to marry in Washington state. As I said before, the government shouldn't discriminate based on race, sex, or religion. It should see all citizens merely as individuals, devoid of race or sex or creed.

[Blart]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Quite simply put, you're not looking - and don't care to see it. Libertarians have been fighting for civil rights since the beginning of time. It's central to what makes them libertarians.

They give civil-rights lip service, but so do Scientologists. Both groups care much more about money (and eating souls).

The ACLU, for comparison, takes on 6,000 civil liberties cases a year free of charge.

And voter suppression? Apparently that's another issue that's not as important as privatized roads. Democracy, after all, is a rather touchy subject for right-libertarians.

Milton Friedman, Friedrich von Hayek, and Ludwig Von Mises each coddled up to fascist dictators. I think houghtam is right - right-Libertarians think civil liberties are nice, but unrestrained capitalism is far more important.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Blart

>> I think houghtam is right - right-Libertarians think civil liberties are nice, but unrestrained capitalism is far more important.<<

Exactly.

Libertarian economic philosophy is an even more extreme version of the "free market" insanity that caused the crisis of '08.

The voters have rejected that philosophy in the last two presidential elections - not sure why the Ayn Rand acolytes believe they'll embrace it in 2016.

[elsid13]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Exactly.

Libertarian economic philosophy is an even more extreme version of the "free market" insanity that caused the crisis of '08.

The voters have rejected that philosophy in the last two presidential elections - not sure why the Ayn Rand acolytes believe they'll embrace it in 2016.

Because Ayn Rand crowd is just a fanatical about that fiction religion like beliefs as the those believe in Scientology and L Ron Hubbard's bull****

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by Blart

The ACLU, for comparison, takes on 6,000 civil liberties political interest cases a year free of charge.

FIFY

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

I still hope one day it won't be, and that the people agree with that. Who knows maybe in 100 yrs when we solve more social problems, if we do. We could reach a point someday, of enlightenment and prospierty, where society looks back at killing unborn babies as barbaric.

They're not unborn babies.

They're collections of cells.

But otherwise, good luck with all that "someday women won't want to have control of their own healthcare decisions" stuff.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

^

As long as ignoramuses like cutthemdown "stay the course," the Dems will continue to win elections.

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

When the GOP decided to get in bed with the evangelicals and the racist goobers, little did they know it would be "'til death do we part."

Right, because everyone knows that Bull Connor was a Republican.

Oith to libs, can you hear us now?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So It Begins – GOP Civil War



Within 24 hours of the Romney defeat, Herman Cain was calling for the Tea Party to leave the Republican Party, as you can hear on “Focal Point” here:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

Right, because everyone knows that Bull Connor was a Republican.

Oith to libs, can you hear us now?

Like most post-truth-era rightards, your "history" comes to an abrupt end with the Civil Rights Act.

[Obushma]

Originally Posted by elsid13

Because Ayn Rand crowd is just a fanatical about that fiction religion like beliefs as the those believe in Scientology and L Ron Hubbard's bull****

What the **** are you talking about polock, maybe in english next time? You just don't want to loose that lush State Dept job, you haven't had enough fun killing enough Arabs yet. I wouldn't want a libertarian in if I was in your position either, but look at the bright side, you can go home and eat lotsa porogis

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

Right, because everyone knows that Bull Connor was a Republican.

Oith to libs, can you hear us now?

Well, well, well! Look who's emerged from their post election respite in the cocoon!

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

...We could reach a point someday, of enlightenment and prospierty, where society looks back at killing unborn babies as barbaric.

A good read on this subject.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/29/opinio...ity/index.html

...If you're serious about reducing abortion, the most important issue is not which abortions to ban. The most important issue is how will you support women to have the babies they want.

As a general rule, societies that do the most to support mothers and child-bearing have the fewest abortions. Societies that do the least to support mothers and child-bearing have more abortions...

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Where does the GOP go from here? (assuming Mitt loses)

Hopefully the way of the Dodo and the Pterodactyl.

I think a one-party Socialist system is pretty much what the hard core Democratic constituency really wants. Always nice to see some candor from you all.

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by TonyR

Well, well, well! Look who's emerged from their post election respite in the cocoon!

I had a 2 week ban. Refer to the Harry Reid thread.

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

So It Begins – GOP Civil War



Within 24 hours of the Romney defeat, Herman Cain was calling for the Tea Party to leave the Republican Party, as you can hear on “Focal Point” here:

That's Cain trying to pretend to be relevant. Sour grapes is about all you can expect from him, even if he dug his own grave. Of course, liberals latch onto it hungrily for obvious reasons.

I'd like to see the Democrats expel their Socialists. Socialist handiwork is all over Democratic domestic policy. Contrast it to anything from any Red party: Workers World Party, Socialist International, etc... The ideological overlap is astounding. The only real difference is that they're anti-capitalist and Democrats aren't.