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Old 11-08-2012, 02:09 PM   #776
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Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco View Post
So on immigration reform, what exactly needs to be reformed?
Basically, we just need to actually use what already got passed in the 80s as the Simpson/Mazzoli bill (which was never really implemented) and maybe put some Dream Act provisions in there as well.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:12 PM   #777
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Your own example actually plays into my big long-term concern regarding parties nominating the best minority candidate to win what's now clearly defined as a "racial loyalty vote" as opposed to the best candidate.
I agree that they'll try, but I think a potential exploding cigar for the Republicans. For example, if the Republicans think that Mexican-American voters in the Southwest and California will vote en mass for a Cuban-American Conservative like Rubio, based on the fact that he speaks Spanish and has brown skin, they are sadly mistaken. Puerto-Ricans , Mexicans, Cubans, Chicanos represent vastly different demographics.

I think Blacks broke for the Democrats because over the past several generations Blacks almost always break for the Dems in national elections. Of course, Obama helped with the enthusiasm factor among Black voters, but the same was true with JFK among Catholics and I'm sure for many Mormons with Mitty.

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Old 11-08-2012, 02:21 PM   #778
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Basically, we just need to actually use what already got passed in the 80s as the Simpson/Mazzoli bill (which was never really implemented) and maybe put some Dream Act provisions in there as well.
I disagreed with the Dream Act almost completely and the 86 bill () was about amnesty and employer related controls. Citizenship should be earned here. I actually think the current wait period is too short to become a citizen here. I do agree with seasonal visa's for work though. I see no problem with that.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:23 PM   #779
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I disagreed with the Dream Act almost completely and the 86 bill () was about amnesty and employer related controls. Citizenship should be earned here. I actually think the current wait period is too short to become a citizen here. I do agree with seasonal visa's for work though. I see no problem with that.
So realistically speaking what do you do with the people that are already here? What do you do with anchor children (American citizens) if you deport their parents? Who is going to take care of them? Who is going to pay to take care of them?
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:29 PM   #780
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So realistically speaking what do you do with the people that are already here? What do you do with anchor children (American citizens) if you deport their parents? Who is going to take care of them? Who is going to pay to take care of them?
I would argue that since the parents aren't citizens then their children aren't citizens. However that's not the perception nor the rule. I would be okay with the children staying here and floating that bill as a taxpayer and the parents sent back, but that would be behaviorally damaging to the child so I would deport the child with them if I had my way. It's fair to everyone that way.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:29 PM   #781
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I disagreed with the Dream Act almost completely and the 86 bill () was about amnesty and employer related controls. Citizenship should be earned here. I actually think the current wait period is too short to become a citizen here. I do agree with seasonal visa's for work though. I see no problem with that.
I still think one of the best ideas was having a government site where an employer can take a prospective employees SSN and check it online. It simply would let them know if that number is valid, and/or if it is duplicated without divulging any other personal info. That alone would take care of many issues. That was one of the ideas in Simpson/Mazzoli that never got implemented.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:31 PM   #782
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I still think one of the best ideas was having a government site where an employer can take a prospective employees SSN and check it online. It simply would let them know if that number is valid, and/or if it is duplicated without divulging any other personal info. That alone would take care of many issues. That was one of the ideas in Simpson/Mazzoli that never got implemented.
Right. The hotline that was supposed to be setup that never was. I was under the impression that this has since been fixed.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:42 PM   #783
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ITT: Agenda-influenced liberals justify racism because it put their candidate in the white house.
A Harvard study found that Obama's race cost him 3 - 5% of the total vote in 2008, effectively giving McCain (and likely Romney) a home-state advantage throughout the entire country.


You can view the study and its methodology here,
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~s...Davidowitz.pdf


This is still America, and it's still a benefit to be white.

I think you should do some self-reflection, and perhaps read this article:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...sident/309064/

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Old 11-08-2012, 02:54 PM   #784
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There would still be NO provable correlation. It's still an ignorant assumption based on two numbers that may or may not have anythig to do with one another. Interesting how you conveniently left out my post further down about the effect to ground campaign had on Boston's blocs traditionally unmotivated to vote.

I'd like to see the numbers for Clinton too, because there's no telling how much effect Hurricane Lili had on the black vote.

People, stop searching for reasons the Republicans lost handily on Tuesday other than the obvious, which is that their party is completely out of touch with its modern electorate.
Dude,
you have someone else on your radar because I jumped into this with the simple question as I noticed people getting on Rev for a statement he made. I did not go back the many pages to figure out what triggered it and why. I had no posts directed towards me nor did I ask a question or refute anyone else's post.
BUT, if 11 to 13% more Blacks voted because of Obama, please don't tell me it wasn't an issue of the color of his skin! They saw one of their own and either registered to vote or finally voted in a long time. With 11 to 13% more (13% of the population) and those that vote are over 90% for him, that is a pretty nice added number in close states where every vote matters.
For the most part, whites don't give a **** with the color of the skin. They look at the message first. Yes, there are some that won't vote on a candidate based on color or religion.

3 million Republicans stayed home and didn't vote. They didn't like Romney's message (or religion).
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:58 PM   #785
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Dude,
you have someone else on your radar because I jumped into this with the simple question as I noticed people getting on Rev for a statement he made. I did not go back the many pages to figure out what triggered it and why. I had no posts directed towards me nor did I ask a question or refute anyone else's post.
BUT, if 11 to 13% more Blacks voted because of Obama, please don't tell me it wasn't an issue of the color of his skin! They saw one of their own and either registered to vote or finally voted in a long time. With 11 to 13% more (13% of the population) and those that vote are over 90% for him, that is a pretty nice added number in close states where every vote matters.
For the most part, whites don't give a **** with the color of the skin. They look at the message first. Yes, there are some that won't vote on a candidate based on color or religion.

3 million Republicans stayed home and didn't vote. They didn't like Romney's message (or religion).
Racism against blacks more than cancels out any pro-black vote. Do da math.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:00 PM   #786
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So realistically speaking what do you do with the people that are already here? What do you do with anchor children (American citizens) if you deport their parents? Who is going to take care of them? Who is going to pay to take care of them?
A compromise could be to continue to work but legally but cannot have a violent record and no way of getting citizenship. This might satisfy the Republicans who know that this wouldn't become some huge voting block for the Democrats. Many of the Mexicans or Latinos don't care about being an American. They just want to work and then take the money and run back home.
Amazing to me that legal Hispanics don't see the illegals as a blockage to them getting jobs or higher wages. Yet, they support the illegal aliens getting work, driving, etc.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:02 PM   #787
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Racism against blacks more than cancels out any pro-black vote. Do da math.
So a white guy that normally votes for a Democrat actually didn't vote for Obama because of his skin? Sure! Someone here (that would be you!) said it was a negative of 3 to 5% against Obama. The 11 to 13% increase of voting just for blacks would say you are full of it. I bet more % of Democrat Hispanics didn't vote for Obama then white democrats.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:07 PM   #788
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So a white guy that normally votes for a Democrat actually didn't vote for Obama because of his skin? Sure! Someone here (that would be you!) said it was a negative of 3 to 5% against Obama. The 11 to 13% increase of voting just for blacks would say you are full of it. I bet more % of Democrat Hispanics didn't vote for Obama then white democrats.
Read the study, he adjusts for the increase in minority votes.

A good summary from "Fear of a Black Presdient"

Quote:
Stephens-­Davidowitz ranked areas of the country according to how often people there typed racist search terms into Google. (The areas with the highest rates of racially charged search terms were West Virginia, western Pennsylvania, eastern Ohio, upstate New York, and southern Mississippi.) Then he compared Obama’s voting results in those areas with John Kerry’s four years earlier. So, for instance, in 2004 Kerry received 50 percent of the vote in the media markets of both Denver and Wheeling (which straddles the Ohio–West Virginia border). Based on the Democratic groundswell in 2008, Obama should have received about 57 percent of the popular vote in both regions. But that’s not what happened. In the Denver area, which had one of the nation’s lowest rates of racially charged Google searching, Obama received the predicted 57 percent. But in Wheeling, which had a high rate of racially charged Google searching, Obama’s share of the popular vote was only 48 percent. Of course, Obama also picked up some votes because he is black. But, aggregating his findings nationally, Stephens-Davidowitz has concluded that Obama lost between 3 and 5 percentage points of the popular vote to racism.

Also - congrats to Denver for being one of the least racist cities!

Last edited by Blart; 11-08-2012 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:23 PM   #789
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Rev: 93% of 100% is better than 72%, because only 13% of 100% is not equal to 68% of 72% of 100% total.
TonyR: You fail to recognize the total demographics in this country.
Rev: Congrats. You agree with me, because I will not lose this argument, and I'
m outta here.
Rev: I'm back.
Beavis: You'll see, DISASTER. The dollar devaluation and inflation is a perfect storm.
Drunken.Bronc: Greece! The USA is like Greece! Going down a fiscal drain!
sirhcyenny: We're done now. It's over.
Meck77: All my friends are losing money! I'm doing great, but what about them!
Kaylore: I really wanted Romney to win, 'cause then we'd have bi-partisanship, but now Obama won I really worry about it.
TonyR: WTF? If the economy was so bad, why did Obama get a second term.
LABF: Duh.
Cito: I don't know WTF is going on, but I'm doing just fine.
houghtam: Just look at the results.
SoCal: These far right wingers are f'ing things up.
Jetmeck: In your face!
Hamrob: I'm with Rush.
ghwk: I'm with houghtam.
pricejj: I'm with Reagan.
Cito: If anybody has a problem with this, go to Citodontcare.com and vote. Sorry if I left off any of you multitudes with attitudes, but I couldn't go on forever.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:40 PM   #790
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A compromise could be to continue to work but legally but cannot have a violent record and no way of getting citizenship. This might satisfy the Republicans who know that this wouldn't become some huge voting block for the Democrats. Many of the Mexicans or Latinos don't care about being an American. They just want to work and then take the money and run back home.
Amazing to me that legal Hispanics don't see the illegals as a blockage to them getting jobs or higher wages. Yet, they support the illegal aliens getting work, driving, etc.
I think a realistic compromise could be found along those lines. The kids who are American citizens and do not know any other way of life are able to stay. It would help bring the parents out of the shadows and into the tax base. You allow them to have a non-citizen Driver's license. You have them file Federal income taxes. Any felony conviction results in deportation.

At some point though you have to streamline the immigration process and create a realistic path to citizenship. I teach students at an alternative high school. Many of these students (75 percent) are 1st generation Mexican immigrants. I disagree with quite a few coworkers because I am 100 percent an advocate of a basic English Fluency test as a requirement for citizenship. It has nothing to do with the "them there Mexicans need to speak English" mindset, but rather to help these kids have a realistic chance at higher education. Also, special ELL and ESL classes are a huge financial burden to an already taxed school system. If these kids' parents were bilingual, it would alleviate the need for school districts to have two, three, four, five ELL teachers and allow these kids to attend elementary school without being significantly behind.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:38 PM   #791
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RobMe concedes Florida.

Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:31 PM PST

That's 29 electoral votes for a 332-206 victory.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/1...ncedes-Florida
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:48 PM   #792
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Beavis: You'll see, DISASTER. The dollar devaluation and inflation is a perfect storm.
I didn't say disaster was definitely going to happen. I'm just pointing out that our currency being a world currency makes inflating out of this much debt much less workable than some people like to think. Greece is handcuffed somewhat by the EU. We're handcuffed in a different way by being the world's reserve currency.

In either case, separation is possible. But neither would be a pleasant experience.

But if leadership can get together and stop the hemorrhaging fairly soon, we won't necessarily have to go there.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:09 PM   #793
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A Harvard study found that Obama's race cost him 3 - 5% of the total vote in 2008, effectively giving McCain (and likely Romney) a home-state advantage throughout the entire country.
Pretty much the same conclusion as the study I posted earlier in this thread. Maybe Rev will like this one?
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:13 PM   #794
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For the most part, whites don't give a **** with the color of the skin. They look at the message first. Yes, there are some that won't vote on a candidate based on color or religion.
So, whites don't care about color, but blacks do? Realize that there are at least four times as many white voters as black voters. So if only 25% of them care about color that would cancel out the black vote even in 100% of them voted based on color.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:18 PM   #795
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Pretty much the same conclusion as the study I posted earlier in this thread. Maybe Rev will like this one?
Not likely. It has numbers that don't fit his preconceived world view.

Aaaaand neg rep about how he's an "independent" (threatening to turn conservative just to spite me, like a little child) and touting his BS in Math (Bob Jones U.?) in 5...4...3...
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:21 PM   #796
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Not sure about race but the stock market dropping like a rock right now. People sure are excited about Obama.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:23 PM   #797
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Not sure about race but the stock market dropping like a rock right now. People sure are excited about Obama.
I wonder how many times you've mentioned the fact that it's almost doubled since he took office? But this drop you're all over.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:57 PM   #798
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I wonder how many times you've mentioned the fact that it's almost doubled since he took office? But this drop you're all over.
The voters didn't buy the bullsh*t cutthemdown is selling - wonder why he thinks he'll have better luck here on this forum?
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:02 PM   #799
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Dude,
you have someone else on your radar because I jumped into this with the simple question as I noticed people getting on Rev for a statement he made. I did not go back the many pages to figure out what triggered it and why. I had no posts directed towards me nor did I ask a question or refute anyone else's post.
BUT, if 11 to 13% more Blacks voted because of Obama, please don't tell me it wasn't an issue of the color of his skin! They saw one of their own and either registered to vote or finally voted in a long time. With 11 to 13% more (13% of the population) and those that vote are over 90% for him, that is a pretty nice added number in close states where every vote matters.
For the most part, whites don't give a **** with the color of the skin. They look at the message first. Yes, there are some that won't vote on a candidate based on color or religion.

3 million Republicans stayed home and didn't vote. They didn't like Romney's message (or religion).


88% of Romney Voters Were White
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:39 PM   #800
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This is a pretty bad logical flaw. If the theory is no colored guys will vote for the white guy pointing out that only white guys vote for the white guy just further supports that theory. There's no alternative.
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