Election Day!

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

I love how Obama doesn't get any blame for the bad relationship with congress. When they went to him after the 2008 election and laid out some ideas his exact words were "I won." And they didn't pass a single piece of bipartisan support legislation. They lost the house because of it and he's been unapologetic. He's from a blue state. He has no experience working across the aisle. He is annoyed at the idea he has to earn support for any of his ideas. He thinks he just needs to lay it out there and if you don't like what he says, you're stupid. The culture of give and take in Washington seems to have compeltely baffled him - that or he's so arrogant he's annoyed at the idea that he should need to get consensus from anyone on anything at all.

They didnt pass a piece of bipart legislation because, as Roh mentioned, they had NO interest in doing so unless they got their way 100 percent.

A perfect example of this was the debt ceiling issue. Talk about playing with some severe fire. This probably speaks more to the country being SO divided, but lets not pretend the republicans werent majorly pissed off that Obama was elected, and they were hardly agreeable at any point.

Hey, im blaming everyone here. The political climate is ****.

[ludo21]

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

obamacare will ruin the country!!!!!

um, sorry. go GJohnson! 2012

[elsid13]

Longest wait I have ever had to vote this morning - 2 hours plus. I live in Northern Virginia and everyone I talked to had very similar experiences.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

Yes, thats the only thing Obama did...repeal dont ask, dont tell. Come on.

And as much as Republicans love talking about the democrats having majorities, they always forget about the blue dogs who were lockstep in obstruction too...demos in name only.

If they got the repeal through, they could get anything through. If they couldn't get tax reform through then, the whole premise of their solution to our problems is flawed because it won't be happening in the next term either.

[Pseudofool]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Everyone relax.

Obama promised a change that not only never came, but no steps were even taken towards it.

National gamble. You win some, you lose some. Time to move on.

You didn't get your pony? I got mine.

Seriously. Obama did more in his first two years than many do over a full two terms. Healthcare, DADT, student loan reform, stimulus, etc. etc. These weren't small fry bills.

[pricejj]

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

Not to start a political argument but

1) this isnt true. There is plenty that was accomplished

Sure, Obama added $5T to the national debt. Healthcare costs have risen $2500 annually. Take home pay has decreased over $4000 in the last four years.

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

2) Republican obstructionism played a huge role in this.

Not true. Obama had a Democrat super-majority for 2 years. Republicans gained control of the House of Representatives in 2010 and have passed numerous bills to cut spending and create jobs...Harry Reid and the Democrat controlled Senate have not passed a budget in 3 years.

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

3) this country is not "worse" off than it was in 2008, no matter how many times Romney claims it to be.

Sure it is. The price of gas has doubled. There are 23 million Americans unemployed. The cost of food has gone up, and housing prices are on the decline again. Not to mention Obama added more to the debt than any President in history.

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

4) On the whole, American life hasnt really changed. We just love to b**** that it has.

43 million people are on foodstamps. Obamacare is the biggest tax-hike on the middle-class in history, and national debt increases $80B every month.

[Pseudofool]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

I love how Obama doesn't get any blame for the bad relationship with congress. When they went to him after the 2008 election and laid out some ideas his exact words were "I won." And they didn't pass a single piece of bipartisan support legislation. They lost the house because of it and he's been unapologetic. He's from a blue state. He has no experience working across the aisle. He is annoyed at the idea he has to earn support for any of his ideas. He thinks he just needs to lay it out there and if you don't like what he says, you're stupid. The culture of give and take in Washington seems to have compeltely baffled him - that or he's so arrogant he's annoyed at the idea that he should need to get consensus from anyone on anything at all.

How has Republican showed any willingness to compromise. Righties forget that Obamacare was a conservative idea.

Conservatives get their way and then complain that no one compromises with them. It's laughable.

Obama was willing to cut 10 spending dollars for every ONE dollar added in revenue, and the Republicans didn't go for it.

Many conservatives are reasonable, the ones in Congress are not.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by Pseudofool

You didn't get your pony? I got mine.

Seriously. Obama did more in his first two years than many do over a full two terms. Healthcare, DADT, student loan reform, stimulus, etc. etc. These weren't small fry bills.

23 million unemployed wonder where jobs rank the last four years...

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

If they got the repeal through, they could get anything through. If they couldn't get tax reform through then, the whole premise of their solution to our problems is flawed because it won't be happening in the next term either.

Its hard to get tax reform done when republicans signed some asinine pledge to NEVER RAISE THEM. Even Saint Reagan raised them

Even though Im obviously not a fan of Reagan, he was still a pragmatist. I dont think he'd be approving of today's modern republican party.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by Pseudofool

You didn't get your pony? I got mine.

Seriously. Obama did more in his first two years than many do over a full two terms. Healthcare, DADT, student loan reform, stimulus, etc. etc. These weren't small fry bills.

But none actually solved any of the problems facing the country. In the regard of true change, they were all quite trivial. The economy still isn't sound and can't compete with China, there's still not enough doctors, college costs are still skyrocketing, and it'd still be in their best interest for the gay man to not waive rainbow flags in the military. Congrats on all those accomplishments?

[Hulamau]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

I love how Obama doesn't get any blame for the bad relationship with congress. When they went to him after the 2008 election and laid out some ideas his exact words were "I won." And they didn't pass a single piece of bipartisan support legislation. They lost the house because of it and he's been unapologetic. He's from a blue state. He has no experience working across the aisle. He is annoyed at the idea he has to earn support for any of his ideas. He thinks he just needs to lay it out there and if you don't like what he says, you're stupid. The culture of give and take in Washington seems to have compeltely baffled him - that or he's so arrogant he's annoyed at the idea that he should need to get consensus from anyone on anything at all.

I'd like to see that direct quote of him saying only "I won" and made no effort to reach bipartisan support?!

What Obama did get right after his election and even before he took office from nearly every Republican ranging from Mitch Mac to Rush baby was the cold shoulder and a public declaration that their one and ONLY priority the next four years was making Obama's a failed presidency.. screw the country!

That is what lost my respect for this slash and burn total obstructionist policy by the Republicans, and those brighter Republicans who didn't really agree with this approach, lacked the balls to stand up to the nut jobs and only skewed the polarization even further.

Obama, its true, didn't always react properly to that stone walling. But far from the arrogant 'I dont need you' attitude that you assume here, the real issue was taht Obama had been too used to working to bring people together from his days at hte Havard Review on up where he has a long track record of bringing two sides together and mediating a solution.

When Obama's early attempts to reach out were met with a total blockade, instead of finding a way to break the deadlock I do think one of his failings in the first term was to act too shell-shocked by the obstructionism and I think he was literally surprised and unfamiliar with such intransigence. Especially in 2010 when the congress was willing to let the country default rather than extend the debt ceiling.

Anyway, he could have handled that one better.

He should have spoken more directly to the American people about what he was trying to do and remain a good communicator during his term rather than retreating more within the white house and hunkering down in bunker mentality while trying to get some things down in spite of the near total opposition.

Hopefully hes learned his lesson and if teh Republicans try to stone wall him again I suspect he's got some end arounds in sotre and more full on appeals to the public at large using his bully pulpit to break up the log jamb? Anyway, we will find out.

At lesat now he wont have to worry about re-election and will have the vast experience of four difficult years under his belt.

Cant imagine Romney with his wishy washy blow with the wind mentality when and if he had to really face hte real troubles of the world.

Even on things he agreed with Obama with ( like his entire foreign policy debate in which he basically said 'I agree with him'.. he admitted he would have absolutely blown the Bin Laden assassination by first asking for permission and help from the freakin Pakistani's!!!

As Colin Powell said on another Romney head scratcher "Geez Mitt .. 'think'" even after all we know now after the fact , he says he would have done just like Obama did ( even that is doubtful) but I would have asked the Pakistani's first!!

That's not the kind of 'savvy' of leadership I want anywhere near the White House.

I have no problem with Mitt the person. I'm sure he's a perfectly decent guy and good family man and such. He just needs a backbone and some solid convictions that he can stand on and defend and not waffle all over the map to appeal to whatever audience he is going for at the moment.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by Pseudofool

How has Republican showed any willingness to compromise. Righties forget that Obamacare was a conservative idea.

Conservatives get their way and then complain that no one compromises with them. It's laughable.

Obama was willing to cut 10 spending dollars for every ONE dollar added in revenue, and the Republicans didn't go for it.

Many conservatives are reasonable, the ones in Congress are not.

Obama invited republicans up to the WH. Spoke with them. Listened to their ideas. Then said "I won". Then proceeded to jam through nearly everything he wanted on a purely partisan vote. If Obamacare was a conservative idea...you would think at least ONE republican would have voted for it.

As a result of the "stimulus" and Obamacare, dems lost control of the house. The senate has refused to bring house bills to a vote. Now refresh my memory. Who controls the senate?

[Pseudofool]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

23 million unemployed wonder where jobs rank the last four years...

Oh the government should do more to create jobs? The most significant job loss has occured in the public sector. If you want to build some roads, bridges, etc; I'm all for it. If you want to build some windmills and some cars with tax dollars, let's do it. But if you think simply cutting taxes will spur growth, you haven't been paying attention to the last 30 years.

Some how the previous eight years that led to the recession didn't happen under a conservative president with a conservative ideology reigning. How many jobs did the Bush Tax cut create? Oh right...

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

Its hard to get tax reform done when republicans signed some asinine pledge to NEVER RAISE THEM. Even Saint Reagan raised them

Even though Im obviously not a fan of Reagan, he was still a pragmatist. I dont think he'd be approving of today's modern republican party.

So that can't be a solution if it'll get blocked. Like it or not, it is what it is. To keep pursuing an end we all know won't happen is asinine. To be able to convince followers that such is still the answer though.. that's amazing.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Originally Posted by pricejj

Sure, Obama added $5T to the national debt. Healthcare costs have risen $2500 annually. Take home pay has decreased over $4000 in the last four years.



Not true. Obama had a Democrat super-majority for 2 years. Republicans gained control of the House of Representatives in 2010 and have passed numerous bills to cut spending and create jobs...Harry Reid and the Democrat controlled Senate have not passed a budget in 3 years.



Sure it is. The price of gas has doubled. There are 23 million Americans unemployed. The cost of food has gone up, and housing prices are on the decline again. Not to mention Obama added more to the debt than any President in history.



43 million people are on foodstamps. Obamacare is the biggest tax-hike on the middle-class in history, and national debt increases $80B every month.

1) The 2500 is a skewed number, because govt subsidies should cover most that. In fact, all these healthcare numbers are. Plus, i think we should all pay a little more to make it work (thats just me, considering the old system would have america bankrupt)

2) Youre forgetting about Blue Dog democrats who they had to negotiate with...this was hardly a liberal demo majority. Ben Nelson anyone?

3) the 23 percent is a dubious number, because it includes people with part time jobs. Gas prices are a result of the global market. We're drilling more than ever here, blame India and China for indutrializing.

4) He came into office during the worst economic downfall since the depression..and as time went on, they realized it was worse than they ever thought. The economy isnt exactly strong, but its definitely growing (albiet at a slow pace). But guess what wont get it going again? Tax cuts for all!

And show me where Romney Ryan ever care about the deficit?

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

So that can't be a solution if it'll get blocked. Like it or not, it is what it is. To keep pursuing an end we all know won't happen is asinine. To be able to convince followers that such is still the answer though.. that's amazing.

So whats your answer? Let the baby have their bottle and go back to trickle down economics that got us in this **** in the first place?

or do both sides need to grow the **** up and give a little?

[Pseudofool]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

Obama invited republicans up to the WH. Spoke with them. Listened to their ideas. Then said "I won". Then proceeded to jam through nearly everything he wanted on a purely partisan vote. If Obamacare was a conservative idea...you would think at least ONE republican would have voted for it.

As a result of the "stimulus" and Obamacare, dems lost control of the house. The senate has refused to bring house bills to a vote. Now refresh my memory. Who controls the senate?

Conservatives (Romney was the first to adopt it) came up with the idea of Obamacare. It became politically unfavorable to support their own idea, because it would like a Democratic victory.

Liberals wanted single payer, not a marketplace and a mandate (those are conservative ideas!).

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

Obama invited republicans up to the WH. Spoke with them. Listened to their ideas. Then said "I won". Then proceeded to jam through nearly everything he wanted on a purely partisan vote. If Obamacare was a conservative idea...you would think at least ONE republican would have voted for it.

As a result of the "stimulus" and Obamacare, dems lost control of the house. The senate has refused to bring house bills to a vote. Now refresh my memory. Who controls the senate?

I wouldnt necessarily say the public opinion is proof **** doesnt work. The public doesnt know **** about ****. For example, "Obamacare" doesnt poll great, but when you break it down piece by piece, it polls well.

People are morons

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Originally Posted by Pseudofool

Conservatives (Romney was the first to adopt it) came up with the idea of Obamacare. It became politically unfavorable to support their own idea, because it would like a Democratic victory.

Liberals wanted single payer, not a marketplace and a mandate (those are conservative ideas!).

This too.

Obamacare is romneycare is, more or less, what Dole proposed in 94...by the way, ALL to the right of NIXON healthcare!

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

So that can't be a solution if it'll get blocked. Like it or not, it is what it is. To keep pursuing an end we all know won't happen is asinine. To be able to convince followers that such is still the answer though.. that's amazing.

This argument is as asinine as the guy who said we should let Romney win because he's the only one who can work with the Republicans.

No.

Let me repeat that.

NO.

Giving in because one side refuses to negotiate is not democracy, it's holding the country hostage.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

1) The 2500 is a skewed number, because govt subsidies should cover most that. In fact, all these healthcare numbers are. Plus, i think we should all pay a little more to make it work (thats just me, considering the old system would have america bankrupt)

2) Youre forgetting about Blue Dog democrats who they had to negotiate with...this was hardly a liberal demo majority. Ben Nelson anyone?

3) the 23 percent is a dubious number, because it includes people with part time jobs. Gas prices are a result of the global market. We're drilling more than ever here, blame India and China for indutrializing.

4) He came into office during the worst economic downfall since the depression..and as time went on, they realized it was worse than they ever thought. The economy isnt exactly strong, but its definitely growing (albiet at a slow pace). But guess what wont get it going again? Tax cuts for all!

And show me where Romney Ryan ever care about the deficit?

It's been pointed out time and time again that the Democratic "supermajority" lasted about...7 weeks.

[Miss I.]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

23 million unemployed wonder where jobs rank the last four years...

Um 23 million? where might I ask did you get that number?

I looked up 5 different sources and they all indicated around 12 million unemployed. Not that I think that's great, but you doubled the unemployed number.

however, I will say that unemployment spiked very high under Obama. He inherited a 7.8% unemployment rate and it spiked that year at about 10% in October. It has declined ever since and this last month it's back at around 7.9%.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/unit...mployment-rate
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by Miss I.

Um 23 million? where might I ask did you get that number?

I looked up 5 different sources and they all indicated around 12 million unemployed. Not that I think that's great, but you doubled the unemployed number.

however, I will say that unemployment spiked very high under Obama. He inherited a 7.8% unemployment rate and it spiked that year at about 10% in October. It has declined ever since and this last month it's back at around 7.9%.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/unit...mployment-rate
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

It's a made-up number that includes people who have supposedly stopped looking for work. The BLS doesn't use those numbers in calculating its unemployment numbers, and never has.

Now that there's a D in the WH though, it's a new argument.

Big surprise there.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by Miss I.

Um 23 million? where might I ask did you get that number?

I looked up 5 different sources and they all indicated around 12 million unemployed. Not that I think that's great, but you doubled the unemployed number.

however, I will say that unemployment spiked very high under Obama. He inherited a 7.8% unemployment rate and it spiked that year at about 10% in October. It has declined ever since and this last month it's back at around 7.9%.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/unit...mployment-rate
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

Real unemployment is around 15%. Our illustrious government does not count the people who have run out of unemployment benefits and no longer looking for work.

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

Its hard to get tax reform done when republicans signed some asinine pledge to NEVER RAISE THEM. Even Saint Reagan raised them

Even though Im obviously not a fan of Reagan, he was still a pragmatist. I dont think he'd be approving of today's modern republican party.

Painted themselves into a corner. Said "goodbye, vaya con dios" to bi-partisanship.