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Old 06-05-2005, 12:36 AM   #51
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then of course we have the Mathew Sheppard case , well that wasnt Racism , that was homophobes ........
Good ol' Topeka, KS is the home of the Phelps idiots if you ever feel like punching someone's lights out...
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Old 06-05-2005, 12:40 AM   #52
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on a side note.....one of my grandfathers had such a thick spanish accent my mom had to translate his english to me w/i was little..........and the man was a freakin racist. im just saying a person doesnt have to be white and fly a confederate battle flag to be a racist.
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Old 06-05-2005, 05:32 AM   #53
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Sorta on topic here...

Has anyone heard if they are using an identical remake of the General Lee in the new Dukes of Hazzard movie? You know, with the rebel flag on top? Whether they do it or not, there will be a new huge race debate b/c of the flag. I don't care for the movie, but am interested in what they do.
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Old 06-05-2005, 08:39 AM   #54
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There is no doubt that racism in America has greatly diminished in the past 40 years, and despite the blip in the 80s, it has continued fade. The biggest problem with racism (obviously there are others, but this is the most pernicious) is that it currently operates at an institutional level. By the latter I mean that there are practices within are social structures that continue to benefit certain groups of people over others (whom ever is the dominant group within that community, they derive the benefit).

Lets consider the process of hiring. If we take two well-qualified candidates (forget equal since there always is some type of difference), quite often people will choose the individual with whom they feel most comfortable (and why not, our "instincts" are also used to make decisions). If one's experience embeds them more in one type of culture than another, is it surprising that they will feel more comfortable with the one that is closest to theirs; thus, birds of a feather fly together. It is factors such as these that require institutions some times to implement process that encourage diversity, otherwise it is unlikely to occur by itself (or it will occur at too slow a pace).

Bringing this to the NFL , if all owners are white older men, is it surprising they will feel more comfortable picking someone with whom they can connect? Again, is it surprising that GMs are going to pick someone that with communication is a simple process (not that it would be complicated with another subculture, it is just a question of which is perceived subconsciously as being easier).

Now take the NFL and blow it up to America at large (only it is worse in corporate America because merit is not as easily measured as it is in the sports field). On the plus side, as a culture, as we become more integrated, these issues become more moot, and their is no question that integration keeps growing. However, there will always be some form of prejudice. It is in our nature to differentiate, the problem is how the process of differentiation manifests itself in the community. Sadly, too often it is wrapped by ignorance and delivered with unreasoned hate.

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Old 06-05-2005, 08:42 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Merlin
There is no doubt that racism in America has greatly diminished in the past 40 years, and despite the blip in the 80s, it has continued fade. The biggest problem with racism (obviously there are others, but this is the most pernicious) is that it currently operates at an institutional level. By the latter I mean that there are practices within are social structures that continue to benefit certain groups of people over others (whom ever is the dominant group within that community, they derive the benefit).

Lets consider the process of hiring. If we take two well-qualified candidates (forget equal since there always is some type of difference), quite often people will choose the individual with whom they feel most comfortable (and why not, our "instincts" are also used to make decisions). If one's experience embeds them more in one type of culture than another, is it surprising that they will feel more comfortable with the one that is closest to theirs; thus, birds of a feather fly together. It is factors such as these that require institutions some times to implement process that encourage diversity, otherwise it is unlikely to occur by itself (or it will occur at too slow a pace).

Bringing this to the NFL , if all owners are white older men, is it surprising they will feel more comfortable picking someone with whom they can connect? Again, is it surprising that GMs are going to pick someone that with communication is a simple process (not that it would be complicated with another subculture, it is just a question of which is perceived subconsciously as being easier).

Now take the NFL and blow it up to America at large (only it is worse in corporate America because merit is not as easily measured as it is in the sports field). On the plus side, as a culture, as we become more integrated, these issues become more moot, and their is no question that integration keeps growing. However, there will always be some form of prejudice. It is in our nature to differentiate, the problem is how the process of differentiation manifests itself in the community. Sadly, too often it is wrapped by ignorance and delivered with unreasoned hate.

Merlin
Or you could just say birds of a feather tend to flock together.

Real change happens when "birds" cease to recognize their differences. One day we will be all light brown wonder what we will find to feel different and superior about then?

Last edited by baja; 06-05-2005 at 08:47 AM..
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Old 06-05-2005, 09:00 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by TomServo
on a side note.....one of my grandfathers had such a thick spanish accent my mom had to translate his english to me w/i was little..........and the man was a freakin racist. im just saying a person doesnt have to be white and fly a confederate battle flag to be a racist.
Latin-Americans have many examples of racism, despite their claim for moral high ground. Why do you think Argentinians think they are the cream of the crop in South America? Generally it is related to their Caucasian heritage (they consider themselves the whitest country in the south). Chileans often disparage Argentinian behaviour, but many can often be seen feeling pride about being the second "whitest" country.

On a different note, many tribes in Africa treat members of tribes they conquered in the past as subservient. Also, there are examples of slavery in some areas of Africa.

However, Europeans love to benefit from all the help they receive from immigrants, yet they deny them rights of citizenship even after living there for over a decade (and racism is clearly expressed in some political platforms). In Switzerland place of birth is irrelevant, one does not receive Swiss citizenship by being born there.

America has many flaws, and its racist history has manifested in a violent and visible manner. However, America's attempts to address these issues is/should be the envy of many.

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Old 06-05-2005, 09:05 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by baja fan
Or you could just say birds of a feather tend to flock together.

Real change happens when "birds" cease to recognize their differences. One day we will be all light brown wonder what we will find to feel different and superior about then?
Social class structure, but that is a completely different debate.
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Old 06-05-2005, 09:38 AM   #58
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I think a lot of it depends on how and where you come up in this world. My mom's family was from Detroit. They lived in a house on 23rd Street for several years. My grandmother was trying to raise five children by herself after my grandfather's untimely death, so they were essentially living at the poverty level. The neighborhood changed around them until they were basically living in a ghetto. They saw their property value plummet. Eventually things deteriorated to the point where they just walked away from the house.

This experience left my uncle Edwin very imbittered towards black people. When you lose the house you grew up in, you don't care about the societal inequities that created an underclass of people and ripple effects on the community. You simply become a racist.

Another uncle, Edwin's younger brother was in Mexico seveal years later and he was the passenger in an automobile accident. The corrupt Mexican officials dropped him off at some primitive hospital that slapped him back together in haphazard fashion. He wound up with a speech impediment, that ironically left him sounding like Mexican person struggling with English.

Unfortunately the cops decided to throw him in jail, too. My uncle Edwin hired a pilot, snuck into Mexico, bribed a couple people, eased into the hospital and basically busted his brother right out of the country. He was damned lucky not to get arrested and rot in a Mexican prison beside him. My uncle's opinions of our friends south of the border was extremely low after this incident.

There's no question my uncle was a confirmed racist. His viewpoints about groups of people were openly discussed to anyone who would listen to him. His opinions weren't passed on to him by racist ancestors, but formed by his life experences. Was he wrong? Definitely. He was also one of the best men I ever knew. Just like he risked himself to rescue his baby brother, he would have done the same thing for any member of my family. He also treated every individual the same way and I saw him show respect towards people of all colors in his dealings with them. My black and Mexican friends never knew about any negative feelings he might have harbored about groups of people because he always treated them well.

My mother opened our home to various disadvantaged young people over the years. One of them was a young black man who's basically been absorbed into our family over the last 20+ years. He was a pallbearer at my uncle's funeral several years ago. He knew about my uncle's past, because I eventually confided in him one day, and he understood what formed my uncle's racist opinions. He also saw both sides of the man and saw that inside Edwin's heart he was decent caring man who would help any person in trouble, regardless of race.

My friend also grew up dirt poor in Buffalo and was told by plenty of relatives, "never trust whitey". I'm sure many of those people had good reasons for giving him that advice, but I'm glad he didn't listen to them. He knew that, just like my uncle, a person's opinions can be formed by their experiences, but a person should not be defined solely by those opinions.

I don't condone my uncle using racist language around me as a young boy, but I forgive him. I'm glad I was reading at an early age and I was able to experience different viewpoints. Also, my mother, who grew up in the same house really didn't share my uncle's prejudices. My father, who played sports his whole life with blacks, and had a Mexican stand as best man at his wedding also gave me a better perspective on different types of people.

I guess my point with this long rambling note is that being a racist or holding racist opinions doesn't necessarily make you an evil person, or even a bad person. There's good and bad in all of us, its what we do with it that matters.
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Old 06-05-2005, 09:53 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Merlin
Latin-Americans have many examples of racism, despite their claim for moral high ground. Why do you think Argentinians think they are the cream of the crop in South America? Generally it is related to their Caucasian heritage (they consider themselves the whitest country in the south). Chileans often disparage Argentinian behaviour, but many can often be seen feeling pride about being the second "whitest" country.

On a different note, many tribes in Africa treat members of tribes they conquered in the past as subservient. Also, there are examples of slavery in some areas of Africa.

However, Europeans love to benefit from all the help they receive from immigrants, yet they deny them rights of citizenship even after living there for over a decade (and racism is clearly expressed in some political platforms). In Switzerland place of birth is irrelevant, one does not receive Swiss citizenship by being born there.

America has many flaws, and its racist history has manifested in a violent and visible manner. However, America's attempts to address these issues is/should be the envy of many.

Merlin
The old Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles was home to many great boxing matches over the years. Back in the late 60s/early 70s the owner died and his wife inherited the property. She knew nothing about boxing and everyone assumed she would sell her interest in the building, but instead she chose to continue staging fights.

I don't know if she understood boxing, but she definitely understood human nature and boxing cards at the Olympic reflected her beliefs. Rarely were two fighters of the same ethnicity ever matched against one another. Instead it was Mexicans against Puerto Ricans and blacks against whites and all the other possible combinations. The place was rocking every night. Occasionally someone got hit in the head with a bottle or stabbed in the parking lot, but she was tremendously successful for a long time using this matchmaking philosophy.
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Old 06-05-2005, 10:02 AM   #60
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so its racist to want legal immigrants. i see. so the 10 million mexican immigrants who have crossed into the US since 1990 are what? all picking fruit? is our produce industry that demanding?
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Old 06-05-2005, 10:17 AM   #61
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so its racist to want legal immigrants. i see. so the 10 million mexican immigrants who have crossed into the US since 1990 are what? all picking fruit? is our produce industry that demanding?
There is a demand for people who will do that kind of work. You're not going to find many white or black people willing to perform that kind of repetitive, backbreaking labor.
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Old 06-05-2005, 11:09 AM   #62
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so its racist to want legal immigrants. i see. so the 10 million mexican immigrants who have crossed into the US since 1990 are what? all picking fruit? is our produce industry that demanding?
Who stated that? Are you that poor at creating straw men or is your reading comprehension that poor?

There is a difference between inviting legal immigrants to work in your contry for a few seasons, and the implementation of policies that invite immigrants to work in your country for 5-20 yrs while denying them any possibility of citizenship. The first is frequently based on labour needs while also trying to manage the population growth of the area. Conversely the latter is often grounded on racist underpinnings. These countries are obviously not concerned with population management since the immigrants are an integral part of the system (and frequently having children in said country). But the fact that they have supported the infrastructure, contributed to the tax base, and been important members of the social system for a decade has not bearing in them getting citizenship.

As a comparison consider the policies of the States and Canada. In both cases you can apply for citizenship after 3 years of landed immigrant status (and frequently said immigrants receive their citizenship without much difficulty).

BTW, your statement clearly refers to immigration in America, whereas the immigration policies I was referring to were clearly European. A little more attention in your reading would be of value.

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Old 06-05-2005, 11:38 AM   #63
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I guess my point with this long rambling note is that being a racist or holding racist opinions doesn't necessarily make you an evil person, or even a bad person. There's good and bad in all of us, its what we do with it that matters.
Some of my closet friends are racist. They are white, black, red and brown. I understand their point of view and they understand mine. I'm all about fair play and giving everyone a chance to prove who they are as people. I keep the conversation on the business of being human. I'm not afraid of love. I think most people want to believe they are fair. What makes America great is we have the basis for opportunity here whether we understand that is what it is or not. Where else in the world do you have discussions on peace? Being born here in itself is an opportunity. Everyone should travel just so they can see that.

There is a lot of hidden discrimination that is complicated and difficult to address. How do you encourage migrant workers to handle the jobs that help keep our economy competitive without burdening middle class with health and welfare issues? How do you create urban opportunities for self employment rather than reducing an opportunity to always meaning a job? How do we build industry in America and include the free trade agenda? How do you reverse 100 years of unfair advantages and business practices without penalizing the people today unfairly? There is a way to do all of this but our strength is our pride and our pride, greed, and selfishness is our weakness. We are not the only materialistic country in the world...just the richest.

Star Wars is about racism. Star Trek is about racism. Battlestar Gallactica is about racism. It is a bunch of familiar faces in costumes talking about the boogie man in the back of everything that is uniquely American. It is very old wound that is in every step we make. I don't know what the answers are. I think it remains like the question a choice each of us must make each day. I used to say we use the rule of logic, the rule of science but even that can be corrupted or deception.

The only fix is time. The only answer is patience. The only course is taking another whack at it....just one more time. It's an internal and external struggle where the only conversation is from me to me. Nobody else is listening. They have their own conversations.

I spent some time growing up around 7 mile / 8 mile. I've seen a little. What they did in Detroit was bad for everyone and it just kept getting worst. I don't blame anyone for being bitter or angry.
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Old 06-05-2005, 11:54 AM   #64
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I had the fortunate or unfortunate pleasure (depending on your point of view), to have been on every Continent in the world besides Antarctica and Europe.
I don't know....this just struck me as funny.
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Old 06-05-2005, 12:06 PM   #65
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I worked for a good amount of time serving tables at a Country Club and I would like to report that racism is alive and well. Alot of people say things like "we have come a long ways over the past 40 years" and "there are other places that are a lot worse" and I agree with them but I am also not interested in catering to the lowest common denominator.

Some of the things that would come out of these people was disgusting. It is one of the reasons I stopped working there. These are people that own large companies...supervise large amounts of people and hire people.

Makes you think...
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Old 06-06-2005, 12:01 AM   #66
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no one is denying them citizenship. if you avoid the process to begin with, how badly do you want to be a citizen of the country you are working for? illegal immigration pulls down the minimum wage, actually hurting workers who were 1. born here or 2. came here legally.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:25 PM   #67
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:32 PM   #68
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the good ol days when Slap posted.... and rascal for that matter
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:35 PM   #69
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white people love wayne brady because he makes bryant gumbel look like malcolm X
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:45 PM   #70
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the good ol days when Slap posted.... and rascal for that matter
No doubt.

I'm shocked Terry Bradshaw would be so dumb. Just shocked.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:50 PM   #71
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Early sirhcyennek81 posts. Without the . Interesting.


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Old 11-05-2012, 01:52 PM   #72
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My cat is a racist, he hates the Rottie down the street.

God he loves to tease that dog. If that dog ever gets ahold of him again, he's going to rip him apart. He's allready had one go around, I don't know if you remember, but I said Beezlebub was ambulatory.

He's fine, but what am I going to do.

I will just go out to the cat farm and get another. I'm rather attached to this one, but he's expendable. He's stone cold crazy.

I wouldn't mind having a dog, but I don't have a kid to yell at right now, to yell at the dog. The whole thing is absurd. A monkey would be amusing, for about two weeks.

Cat's are very low maintainance. Just have to keep the litter box to regulation, and your all set. hell, I don't even do more than pop off the lid of their tuna cans. They have tounges.

Poopy the hisser is about 115 in human years, and ornery as Grampa Simpson.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:06 PM   #73
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No doubt.

I'm shocked Terry Bradshaw would be so dumb. Just shocked.
wait, it's racist to say jimmy johnson was chasing a bucket of chicken?
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:08 PM   #74
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I always wondered why there weren't more Chinamen in the NFL. Anyone know why?
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:19 PM   #75
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I always wondered why there weren't more Chinamen in the NFL. Anyone know why?
Too much of a commute
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