Wesley Woodyard in seven games already has more interceptions than DJ Williams has had ever.

[fontaine]

Originally Posted by Heyneck

Actually, this ain't facts. Just your opinion.

1. Why does he have to earn it? Are you for real? First there where the reports that he was learning a new position. Second, he didn't get any reps during camp because of the long layoff. Third, dude must be rusty as hell and not being in the meeting room during the evolution of our defense in-season has to be bad for the chemistry part.

, you must have missed the part where Brooking was brought in as a backup option and not the starter.

2. Who cares how many tackles he has! The opposing offense is for once not running straight at our MLB. He may and old fart... but he is an old fart that knows which holes or gaps to hit to flush the play another way.

Wait, wait. Let me just get this straight again. It doesn't matter how many tackles the MLB has?

If not then why say this ->

3. How many many tackles for a loss, forced fumbles etc has DJ had that actually made a difference? Not many. Has DJ had some great games? Sure! The only problem.... he has had way more below average outings.

I get the part where DJ is public enemy #1. Fine, I get it, and got over it.

Now show me the part where Brooking who's fading badly on the field, hardly contributes in making plays/tackles etc, is a better Mike than DJ?

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by fontaine

I'm not talking about off the field stuff. On the field he's the best MLB we have and I've see nothing from to you change that.



Again, your opinion and not fact. Brooking isn't making tackles near the line of scrimmage, he barely makes tackles at all, so I'm not sure what specifically he's doing to help here apart from helping line up the defense but DJ can do that.




That's cute. Brooking has been a starter all of two games, and you're talking about him being here shedding blood and sweat?


I guess we must have had an impersonator at MLB/WLB with DJ all these years and over a 100 games where he played mostly behind a bunch of castoff DTs.

Your opinions don't really matter on this anyway. The Broncos brought in Brooking not to replace DJ but to be an option to fill in while he served his suspension.

I like Brooking, he's a leader on the field and has a ton of experience and is a good backup policy. But that's about it.

That's kind of a question mark, but if Woodyard has the green dot maybe DJ will pay some dividends spelling Brooking. He's not awful, I'm sure Del Rio can get some plays from DJ, and Del Rio will probably be glad to have DJ back to add into the mix.

[fontaine]

Originally Posted by Cito Pelon

That's kind of a question mark, but if Woodyard has the green dot maybe DJ will pay some dividends spelling Brooking. He's not awful, I'm sure Del Rio can get some plays from DJ, and Del Rio will probably be glad to have DJ back to add into the mix.

The bottom line is, this is the best DL we've had in a long long time. The MLB/WLB should be excelling in this type of D and cleaning up plays near the line of scrimmage (like Woodyard has been doing).

I've watched and rewatched the last two games, and I'm sorry, but Brooking doesn't show up after the ball is snapped and really fades in the 2nd half.

There's NO question DJ is going to take the field. We already know that because Brooking is being subbed already. The question, as you say, is whether DJ can get his head on straight but physically, he gives us a stronger/faster MLB than Brooking and it's not even close.

[24champ]

Originally Posted by Elvis Dumervil

''He's a great teammate. Sometimes people make mistakes, but he's definitely a great guy to have in the locker room,'' Dumervil said. ''Having his presence here is tremendous, so we're excited to get him back in the room with us.''

Sounds like Elvis respects DJ.

I'll take the words of the players in the locker room over some fans crying about DJ having to "shed blood and sweat" before he can start.

[fontaine]

Originally Posted by lonestar

I realize you think DJ is a great LB but he no better than WW has been the past two years.. as a Mike he was average at best.. for the money he is making he should be near super star..

This is why your opinions are generally worthless.

Comparing the LB play this year to the past is like comparing apples to oranges. Our DLs have been worthless at being stout at the point of attack in the past where our LBers constantly have had to fight through a lot of traffic.

It's why a flawed player like Woodyard is excelling in this system because his real weakeness in shedding blockers isn't such a big deal because of the job our DL+Von is doing.

And I haven't said DJ is a great LB. He's just a better option than Brooking right now unless he's completely brain dead and can't relearn JDR's defense.

[Br0nc0Buster]

Originally Posted by fontaine

This is why your opinions are generally worthless.

Comparing the LB play this year to the past is like comparing apples to oranges. Our DLs have been worthless at being stout at the point of attack in the past where our LBers constantly have had to fight through a lot of traffic.

It's why a flawed player like Woodyard is excelling in this system because his real weakeness in shedding blockers isn't such a big deal because of the job our DL+Von is doing.

And I haven't said DJ is a great LB. He's just a better option than Brooking right now unless he's completely brain dead and can't relearn JDR's defense.

This is the problem though
He should easily step on the field and be an upgrade over Brooking
But he is THAT stupid that it is not just a given he will

[fontaine]

Originally Posted by Br0nc0Buster

This is the problem though
He should easily step on the field and be an upgrade over Brooking
But he is THAT stupid that it is not just a given he will

Ok that's a legit concern.

But here's what's happening ON the field at the Mike position.

1. Brooking is strictly used at most as a two down run stopping Mike.
2. On third downs or obvious passing downs he's subbed out, Woodyard takes the Mike job, and Trevathan comes in lining up outside.
3. Brooking is SLOW to the ball carrier, can't shed blocks from FBs/TEs and has zero foot speed and change of direction.
4. Athletically, DJ can play his Mike two down role better because he's a better blitzer, quicker to the ball carrier and more physical.
5. Mentally, Brooking isn't being asked to play in coverage so the Broncos are strictly using him as a between the hash marks kind of run stopper. THAT'S IT.
6. Brooking isn't even used as a two down Mike sometimes. He's subbed out on 1st/2nd downs sometimes with Woodyard at Mike and Trevathan at Will -> see Sproles TD pass in the first half when neither LBer picked him up early.

At this point, I'm not sure what people think Brooking is doing, or what's the love affair with a physically limited LBer who doesn't even play a true two down run stopping role, but if you actually watch the game, substitutions and formations you'll see that he plays a very limited amount of snaps, so it's not really asking a whole lot of DJ to come in and replace Brooking's limited 2 down plays. . . . .

. . . . . which would allow Woodyard to play more at Will instead of Trevathan when/if DJ shows he can play more snaps at the Mike position.

At WORST DJ can come in and immediately replace Trevathan at Will.

It really is as simple as that.

[fontaine]

Or let me put it this way .. . . .

Since Joe Mays was benched three weeks ago, Wesley Woodyard has had to learn the Mike position on the fly since he fills in around HALF of his snaps there because Brooking is so limited.

You don't think DJ can do that? Seriously?

[fontaine]

And can someone tell me what Brooking is actually doing in terms of helping line up the defense?

Brooking really only plays in our base 5-2 formation with Von lined up over the strongside TE, and Wolfe/Doom on the edges. You don't need a genius at Mike to get that done right.

[2KBack]

Originally Posted by fontaine

, you must have missed the part where Brooking was brought in as a backup option and not the starter.



Wait, wait. Let me just get this straight again. It doesn't matter how many tackles the MLB has?

If not then why say this ->



I get the part where DJ is public enemy #1. Fine, I get it, and got over it.

Now show me the part where Brooking who's fading badly on the field, hardly contributes in making plays/tackles etc, is a better Mike than DJ?

You do of course realize that the last time DJ played MLB, Denver had the 30th ranked run defense right? We are currently giving up a full yard less per carry, and those stats are slightly skewed between games that Brooking started v. Mays. In the 3 Games Brooking started, Denver has given up less than 200 yards combined on the ground. That is the importance of being in the right place. DJ does not have the ability to play smart on his own, much less line everyone else up correctly.

[fontaine]

Originally Posted by 2KBack

You do of course realize that the last time DJ played MLB, Denver had the 30th ranked run defense right? We are currently giving up a full yard less per carry, and those stats are slightly skewed between games that Brooking started v. Mays. In the 3 Games Brooking started, Denver has given up less than 200 yards combined on the ground. That is the importance of being in the right place. DJ does not have the ability to play smart on his own, much less line everyone else up correctly.

I already addressed this. Brooking plays mostly in our base 5-2 formation on 1st and/or 2nd down. Not much direction is needed to line up there.

I guess if you want to pin our defensive problems in the past to DJ, then sure, go ahead.

But this is what I SEE on film from Brooking as purely being used as a two down run stopper.

1st and 10 on the 20:
Saints opening drive in the 2nd half. Fullback motions over to the left and Woodyard/Brooking read that key to shift over in that direction. Open lane up the middle where Brooking is up one on one against the RB at the 20 yard line.

[24champ]

Originally Posted by 2KBack

You do of course realize that the last time DJ played MLB, Denver had the 30th ranked run defense right? We are currently giving up a full yard less per carry, and those stats are slightly skewed between games that Brooking started v. Mays. In the 3 Games Brooking started, Denver has given up less than 200 yards combined on the ground. That is the importance of being in the right place. DJ does not have the ability to play smart on his own, much less line everyone else up correctly.

You do, of course realize we had a bad DL, right?

[fontaine]

A split second later, Brooking is too slow, too weak and the RB has already gone five yards further and it takes Woodyward to come in and cleanup the Mike's job.

What should have been a 1 yard gain or tackle for a loss (this isn't Adrian Peterson we're talking about here), results in a solid 5 yard gain on 1st down.

If you would rather have that, than DJ playing a two down thumper role in the middle then fine.

I want no part of it.

[fontaine]

That's pretty much the reason why Brooking isn't even used as a two down run stopper but constantly subbed in and out.

The guy is physically done.

[fontaine]

Brooking was out the next play.

Back in on the next 1st and 10 and the Saints run to the left side.

Brooking gets blocked out from the play because he's not quick or strong enough to get past his blocker

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by fontaine

The bottom line is, this is the best DL we've had in a long long time. The MLB/WLB should be excelling in this type of D and cleaning up plays near the line of scrimmage (like Woodyard has been doing).

I've watched and rewatched the last two games, and I'm sorry, but Brooking doesn't show up after the ball is snapped and really fades in the 2nd half.

There's NO question DJ is going to take the field. We already know that because Brooking is being subbed already. The question, as you say, is whether DJ can get his head on straight but physically, he gives us a stronger/faster MLB than Brooking and it's not even close.

DJ will be an immediate upgrade at MLB. Brooking was jsut brought in for depth because it was becoming apparent to the staff that Mays was a liability and DJ was going to be out for at least 6 weeks. All we had at the time depth wise was Irving and Trevathan.

[fontaine]

Brooking played two/three more snaps . . . . .

.
.
.
.
.
.
in the entire 2nd half.


So the sum total of Brooking's play in the entire 2nd half was 4 or 5 snaps where he screwed up one tackle and assited in another.

Any other questions?

[errand]

Originally Posted by fontaine

- unless you think Brooking is going to hold up all year long.

He's held up so far, no?

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Heyneck

Actually, this ain't facts. Just your opinion.

1. Why does he have to earn it? Are you for real? First there where the reports that he was learning a new position. Second, he didn't get any reps during camp because of the long layoff. Third, dude must be rusty as hell and not being in the meeting room during the evolution of our defense in-season has to be bad for the chemistry part.

2. Who cares how many tackles he has! The opposing offense is for once not running straight at our MLB. He may and old fart... but he is an old fart that knows which holes or gaps to hit to flush the play another way.

3. How many many tackles for a loss, forced fumbles etc has DJ had that actually made a difference? Not many. Has DJ had some great games? Sure! The only problem.... he has had way more below average outings.

Athletically DJ is a beast, mentally... my dog runs circle numerous times around his head.

glad to see more folks thinking with their BIG heads instead of their little ones..

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Cito Pelon

Dude is due for a payday next year, same with Chris Harris and Clady.

Pretty sure they resigned him already thought for sure i saw that some where..

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by fontaine

I'm not talking about off the field stuff. On the field he's the best MLB we have and I've see nothing from to you change that.



Again, your opinion and not fact. Brooking isn't making tackles near the line of scrimmage, he barely makes tackles at all, so I'm not sure what specifically he's doing to help here apart from helping line up the defense but DJ can do that.

That's cute. Brooking has been a starter all of two games, and you're talking about him being here shedding blood and sweat?


I guess we must have had an impersonator at MLB/WLB with DJ all these years and over a 100 games where he played mostly behind a bunch of castoff DTs.

Your opinions don't really matter on this anyway. The Broncos brought in Brooking not to replace DJ but to be an option to fill in while he served his suspension.

I like Brooking, he's a leader on the field and has a ton of experience and is a good backup policy. But that's about it.

one again DJ lovers talking out of their ass..

according to Broncos.com he has indeed started 5 games and played in all seven..

Season	Team	Games	Tackles	Interceptions	Fumbles
G	GS	Total	Solo	Ast	Sck	SFTY	PDef	Int	Yds	Avg	Lng	TDs	FF	FR
TOTAL 	1,410 	1,081 	329 	21.0 	-- 	62 	13 	185 	-- 	41 	0 	9 	10
2012 	DEN 	7 	5 	25 	15 	10 	0.0 	-- 	0 	-- 	-- 	-- 	-- 	-- 	1 	--

IIRC brookings was brought in to be a spare part not as DJs replacement.. John knows you can not have to many DB's. LB's or RB's on the roster..

Once again DJ is not a MLB he has played 16 games at it and frankly was not a stuff them at the LOS , TFL or big sackmeister that year..

his expertise has always been WLB and that right now is being manned very well by WW..

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by fontaine

This is why your opinions are generally worthless.

Comparing the LB play this year to the past is like comparing apples to oranges. Our DLs have been worthless at being stout at the point of attack in the past where our LBers constantly have had to fight through a lot of traffic.

It's why a flawed player like Woodyard is excelling in this system because his real weakeness in shedding blockers isn't such a big deal because of the job our DL+Von is doing.

And I haven't said DJ is a great LB. He's just a better option than Brooking right now unless he's completely brain dead and can't relearn JDR's defense.

I guess that is the reason that WW had better stats last year 2011 in 6 less starts than DJ had.. It was all because of the DL.. yeah sure.. once again your woody for DJ is showing..

IF JDR and Fox think he is the guy then so be it I just do not think they are that dumb.. to Immediately start DJ over guys that have been getting it done..

all that does is cause dissension in the locker room.. much like what happened when mikey made greise the starter that one year over an experienced well liked veteran QB..

Now if someone goes down I might buy it or IF one of them plays himself out of the job.. but otherwise I see DJ earning his way back on the field and then the only place he can play is MLB as he is not even close to be at WW level this year and SAM well he will never out play Miller..

But we will see what they do in about three weeks, by then DT and WW should have those spots wrapped up..

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by fontaine

Or let me put it this way .. . . .

Since Joe Mays was benched three weeks ago, Wesley Woodyard has had to learn the Mike position on the fly since he fills in around HALF of his snaps there because Brooking is so limited.

You don't think DJ can do that? Seriously?

not only no but hell NO..

the guys you mentioned have been on the field, in class/film rooms and practice field all year.. DJ has not been on the field at all and frankly is a 12 weeks or so behind JDRs play book.. with him not being the sharpest tool in the shed I believe it will take several weeks at the least till he is up to speed with all the changes that JDR has brought..

[fontaine]

Originally Posted by lonestar

his expertise has always been WLB and that right now is being manned very well by WW..

Before I respond to any more of your posts, do you actually know how many snaps, or ratio of snaps WW plays at the weakside position compared to how many times, say Danny Trevathan does?

If you don't know the basics of how our LBers are used, then like I said, your posts are worthless.

[24champ]

Originally Posted by lonestar

according to Broncos.com he has indeed started 5 games and played in all seven..

Season	Team	Games	Tackles	Interceptions	Fumbles
G	GS	Total	Solo	Ast	Sck	SFTY	PDef	Int	Yds	Avg	Lng	TDs	FF	FR
TOTAL 	1,410 	1,081 	329 	21.0 	-- 	62 	13 	185 	-- 	41 	0 	9 	10
2012 	DEN 	7 	5 	25 	15 	10 	0.0 	-- 	0 	-- 	-- 	-- 	-- 	-- 	1 	--

Also on Broncos.com...

Von Miller started 7 of 7 games.
Woodyard started 6 of 7 games.
Joe Mays started 4 of 6 games.