The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-30-2012, 02:22 PM   #101
fontaine
Ring of Famer
 
fontaine's Avatar
 
Go John Manning!

Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyneck View Post
Actually, this ain't facts. Just your opinion.

1. Why does he have to earn it? Are you for real? First there where the reports that he was learning a new position. Second, he didn't get any reps during camp because of the long layoff. Third, dude must be rusty as hell and not being in the meeting room during the evolution of our defense in-season has to be bad for the chemistry part.
, you must have missed the part where Brooking was brought in as a backup option and not the starter.

Quote:
2. Who cares how many tackles he has! The opposing offense is for once not running straight at our MLB. He may and old fart... but he is an old fart that knows which holes or gaps to hit to flush the play another way.
Wait, wait. Let me just get this straight again. It doesn't matter how many tackles the MLB has?

If not then why say this ->

Quote:
3. How many many tackles for a loss, forced fumbles etc has DJ had that actually made a difference? Not many. Has DJ had some great games? Sure! The only problem.... he has had way more below average outings.
I get the part where DJ is public enemy #1. Fine, I get it, and got over it.

Now show me the part where Brooking who's fading badly on the field, hardly contributes in making plays/tackles etc, is a better Mike than DJ?
fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 02:27 PM   #102
Cito Pelon
Been there, didn't get it
 
Cito Pelon's Avatar
 
Not2Shabby County Seat

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AFC Championshipville, NotTooShabby County
Posts: 16,551

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Slim Shabby
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
I'm not talking about off the field stuff. On the field he's the best MLB we have and I've see nothing from to you change that.



Again, your opinion and not fact. Brooking isn't making tackles near the line of scrimmage, he barely makes tackles at all, so I'm not sure what specifically he's doing to help here apart from helping line up the defense but DJ can do that.




That's cute. Brooking has been a starter all of two games, and you're talking about him being here shedding blood and sweat?


I guess we must have had an impersonator at MLB/WLB with DJ all these years and over a 100 games where he played mostly behind a bunch of castoff DTs.

Your opinions don't really matter on this anyway. The Broncos brought in Brooking not to replace DJ but to be an option to fill in while he served his suspension.

I like Brooking, he's a leader on the field and has a ton of experience and is a good backup policy. But that's about it.
That's kind of a question mark, but if Woodyard has the green dot maybe DJ will pay some dividends spelling Brooking. He's not awful, I'm sure Del Rio can get some plays from DJ, and Del Rio will probably be glad to have DJ back to add into the mix.
Cito Pelon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 02:31 PM   #103
fontaine
Ring of Famer
 
fontaine's Avatar
 
Go John Manning!

Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cito Pelon View Post
That's kind of a question mark, but if Woodyard has the green dot maybe DJ will pay some dividends spelling Brooking. He's not awful, I'm sure Del Rio can get some plays from DJ, and Del Rio will probably be glad to have DJ back to add into the mix.
The bottom line is, this is the best DL we've had in a long long time. The MLB/WLB should be excelling in this type of D and cleaning up plays near the line of scrimmage (like Woodyard has been doing).

I've watched and rewatched the last two games, and I'm sorry, but Brooking doesn't show up after the ball is snapped and really fades in the 2nd half.

There's NO question DJ is going to take the field. We already know that because Brooking is being subbed already. The question, as you say, is whether DJ can get his head on straight but physically, he gives us a stronger/faster MLB than Brooking and it's not even close.
fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 02:34 PM   #104
24champ
Livin' the dream!
 
24champ's Avatar
 
Keep Calm and Chive on

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 19,847

Adopt-a-Bronco:
DomCasual
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis Dumervil
''He's a great teammate. Sometimes people make mistakes, but he's definitely a great guy to have in the locker room,'' Dumervil said. ''Having his presence here is tremendous, so we're excited to get him back in the room with us.''
Sounds like Elvis respects DJ.

I'll take the words of the players in the locker room over some fans crying about DJ having to "shed blood and sweat" before he can start.
24champ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 02:47 PM   #105
fontaine
Ring of Famer
 
fontaine's Avatar
 
Go John Manning!

Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonestar View Post
I realize you think DJ is a great LB but he no better than WW has been the past two years.. as a Mike he was average at best.. for the money he is making he should be near super star..
This is why your opinions are generally worthless.

Comparing the LB play this year to the past is like comparing apples to oranges. Our DLs have been worthless at being stout at the point of attack in the past where our LBers constantly have had to fight through a lot of traffic.

It's why a flawed player like Woodyard is excelling in this system because his real weakeness in shedding blockers isn't such a big deal because of the job our DL+Von is doing.

And I haven't said DJ is a great LB. He's just a better option than Brooking right now unless he's completely brain dead and can't relearn JDR's defense.
fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 02:58 PM   #106
Br0nc0Buster
2013 AFC Champs
 
Br0nc0Buster's Avatar
 
Oh........yea

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
This is why your opinions are generally worthless.

Comparing the LB play this year to the past is like comparing apples to oranges. Our DLs have been worthless at being stout at the point of attack in the past where our LBers constantly have had to fight through a lot of traffic.

It's why a flawed player like Woodyard is excelling in this system because his real weakeness in shedding blockers isn't such a big deal because of the job our DL+Von is doing.

And I haven't said DJ is a great LB. He's just a better option than Brooking right now unless he's completely brain dead and can't relearn JDR's defense.
This is the problem though
He should easily step on the field and be an upgrade over Brooking
But he is THAT stupid that it is not just a given he will
Br0nc0Buster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 03:25 PM   #107
fontaine
Ring of Famer
 
fontaine's Avatar
 
Go John Manning!

Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Br0nc0Buster View Post
This is the problem though
He should easily step on the field and be an upgrade over Brooking
But he is THAT stupid that it is not just a given he will
Ok that's a legit concern.

But here's what's happening ON the field at the Mike position.

1. Brooking is strictly used at most as a two down run stopping Mike.
2. On third downs or obvious passing downs he's subbed out, Woodyard takes the Mike job, and Trevathan comes in lining up outside.
3. Brooking is SLOW to the ball carrier, can't shed blocks from FBs/TEs and has zero foot speed and change of direction.
4. Athletically, DJ can play his Mike two down role better because he's a better blitzer, quicker to the ball carrier and more physical.
5. Mentally, Brooking isn't being asked to play in coverage so the Broncos are strictly using him as a between the hash marks kind of run stopper. THAT'S IT.
6. Brooking isn't even used as a two down Mike sometimes. He's subbed out on 1st/2nd downs sometimes with Woodyard at Mike and Trevathan at Will -> see Sproles TD pass in the first half when neither LBer picked him up early.

At this point, I'm not sure what people think Brooking is doing, or what's the love affair with a physically limited LBer who doesn't even play a true two down run stopping role, but if you actually watch the game, substitutions and formations you'll see that he plays a very limited amount of snaps, so it's not really asking a whole lot of DJ to come in and replace Brooking's limited 2 down plays. . . . .

. . . . . which would allow Woodyard to play more at Will instead of Trevathan when/if DJ shows he can play more snaps at the Mike position.

At WORST DJ can come in and immediately replace Trevathan at Will.

It really is as simple as that.

Last edited by fontaine; 10-30-2012 at 03:29 PM..
fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 03:32 PM   #108
fontaine
Ring of Famer
 
fontaine's Avatar
 
Go John Manning!

Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,089
Default

Or let me put it this way .. . . .

Since Joe Mays was benched three weeks ago, Wesley Woodyard has had to learn the Mike position on the fly since he fills in around HALF of his snaps there because Brooking is so limited.

You don't think DJ can do that? Seriously?
fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 03:43 PM   #109
fontaine
Ring of Famer
 
fontaine's Avatar
 
Go John Manning!

Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,089
Default

And can someone tell me what Brooking is actually doing in terms of helping line up the defense?

Brooking really only plays in our base 5-2 formation with Von lined up over the strongside TE, and Wolfe/Doom on the edges. You don't need a genius at Mike to get that done right.
fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 03:43 PM   #110
2KBack
Rumblin' Bumblin'
 
2KBack's Avatar
 
Cake is delicious

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wash DC
Posts: 7,900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
, you must have missed the part where Brooking was brought in as a backup option and not the starter.



Wait, wait. Let me just get this straight again. It doesn't matter how many tackles the MLB has?

If not then why say this ->



I get the part where DJ is public enemy #1. Fine, I get it, and got over it.

Now show me the part where Brooking who's fading badly on the field, hardly contributes in making plays/tackles etc, is a better Mike than DJ?
You do of course realize that the last time DJ played MLB, Denver had the 30th ranked run defense right? We are currently giving up a full yard less per carry, and those stats are slightly skewed between games that Brooking started v. Mays. In the 3 Games Brooking started, Denver has given up less than 200 yards combined on the ground. That is the importance of being in the right place. DJ does not have the ability to play smart on his own, much less line everyone else up correctly.
2KBack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 03:58 PM   #111
fontaine
Ring of Famer
 
fontaine's Avatar
 
Go John Manning!

Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2KBack View Post
You do of course realize that the last time DJ played MLB, Denver had the 30th ranked run defense right? We are currently giving up a full yard less per carry, and those stats are slightly skewed between games that Brooking started v. Mays. In the 3 Games Brooking started, Denver has given up less than 200 yards combined on the ground. That is the importance of being in the right place. DJ does not have the ability to play smart on his own, much less line everyone else up correctly.
I already addressed this. Brooking plays mostly in our base 5-2 formation on 1st and/or 2nd down. Not much direction is needed to line up there.

I guess if you want to pin our defensive problems in the past to DJ, then sure, go ahead.

But this is what I SEE on film from Brooking as purely being used as a two down run stopper.

1st and 10 on the 20:
Saints opening drive in the 2nd half. Fullback motions over to the left and Woodyard/Brooking read that key to shift over in that direction. Open lane up the middle where Brooking is up one on one against the RB at the 20 yard line.
Attached Images
 
fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 03:59 PM   #112
24champ
Livin' the dream!
 
24champ's Avatar
 
Keep Calm and Chive on

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 19,847

Adopt-a-Bronco:
DomCasual
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2KBack View Post
You do of course realize that the last time DJ played MLB, Denver had the 30th ranked run defense right? We are currently giving up a full yard less per carry, and those stats are slightly skewed between games that Brooking started v. Mays. In the 3 Games Brooking started, Denver has given up less than 200 yards combined on the ground. That is the importance of being in the right place. DJ does not have the ability to play smart on his own, much less line everyone else up correctly.
You do, of course realize we had a bad DL, right?
24champ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 04:01 PM   #113
fontaine
Ring of Famer
 
fontaine's Avatar
 
Go John Manning!

Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,089
Default

A split second later, Brooking is too slow, too weak and the RB has already gone five yards further and it takes Woodyward to come in and cleanup the Mike's job.

What should have been a 1 yard gain or tackle for a loss (this isn't Adrian Peterson we're talking about here), results in a solid 5 yard gain on 1st down.

If you would rather have that, than DJ playing a two down thumper role in the middle then fine.

I want no part of it.
Attached Images
 
fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 04:04 PM   #114
fontaine
Ring of Famer
 
fontaine's Avatar
 
Go John Manning!

Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,089
Default

That's pretty much the reason why Brooking isn't even used as a two down run stopper but constantly subbed in and out.

The guy is physically done.
fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 04:12 PM   #115
fontaine
Ring of Famer
 
fontaine's Avatar
 
Go John Manning!

Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,089
Default

Brooking was out the next play.

Back in on the next 1st and 10 and the Saints run to the left side.

Brooking gets blocked out from the play because he's not quick or strong enough to get past his blocker
Attached Images
 
fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 04:26 PM   #116
broncosteven
Kranz Dictum
 
broncosteven's Avatar
 
Juwan The Headless Thompson Gunner!

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tranquility Base
Posts: 36,290

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Juwan Thompson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
The bottom line is, this is the best DL we've had in a long long time. The MLB/WLB should be excelling in this type of D and cleaning up plays near the line of scrimmage (like Woodyard has been doing).

I've watched and rewatched the last two games, and I'm sorry, but Brooking doesn't show up after the ball is snapped and really fades in the 2nd half.

There's NO question DJ is going to take the field. We already know that because Brooking is being subbed already. The question, as you say, is whether DJ can get his head on straight but physically, he gives us a stronger/faster MLB than Brooking and it's not even close.
DJ will be an immediate upgrade at MLB. Brooking was jsut brought in for depth because it was becoming apparent to the staff that Mays was a liability and DJ was going to be out for at least 6 weeks. All we had at the time depth wise was Irving and Trevathan.
broncosteven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 04:28 PM   #117
fontaine
Ring of Famer
 
fontaine's Avatar
 
Go John Manning!

Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,089
Default

Brooking played two/three more snaps . . . . .

.
.
.
.
.
.
in the entire 2nd half.


So the sum total of Brooking's play in the entire 2nd half was 4 or 5 snaps where he screwed up one tackle and assited in another.

Any other questions?
fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 04:44 PM   #118
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,524
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
- unless you think Brooking is going to hold up all year long.
He's held up so far, no?
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 06:40 PM   #119
lonestar
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West Texas
Posts: 6,203

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Decker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyneck View Post
Actually, this ain't facts. Just your opinion.

1. Why does he have to earn it? Are you for real? First there where the reports that he was learning a new position. Second, he didn't get any reps during camp because of the long layoff. Third, dude must be rusty as hell and not being in the meeting room during the evolution of our defense in-season has to be bad for the chemistry part.

2. Who cares how many tackles he has! The opposing offense is for once not running straight at our MLB. He may and old fart... but he is an old fart that knows which holes or gaps to hit to flush the play another way.

3. How many many tackles for a loss, forced fumbles etc has DJ had that actually made a difference? Not many. Has DJ had some great games? Sure! The only problem.... he has had way more below average outings.

Athletically DJ is a beast, mentally... my dog runs circle numerous times around his head.


glad to see more folks thinking with their BIG heads instead of their little ones..
lonestar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 06:43 PM   #120
lonestar
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West Texas
Posts: 6,203

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Decker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cito Pelon View Post
Dude is due for a payday next year, same with Chris Harris and Clady.
Pretty sure they resigned him already thought for sure i saw that some where..
lonestar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 06:51 PM   #121
lonestar
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West Texas
Posts: 6,203

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Decker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
I'm not talking about off the field stuff. On the field he's the best MLB we have and I've see nothing from to you change that.



Again, your opinion and not fact. Brooking isn't making tackles near the line of scrimmage, he barely makes tackles at all, so I'm not sure what specifically he's doing to help here apart from helping line up the defense but DJ can do that.

That's cute. Brooking has been a starter all of two games, and you're talking about him being here shedding blood and sweat?


I guess we must have had an impersonator at MLB/WLB with DJ all these years and over a 100 games where he played mostly behind a bunch of castoff DTs.

Your opinions don't really matter on this anyway. The Broncos brought in Brooking not to replace DJ but to be an option to fill in while he served his suspension.

I like Brooking, he's a leader on the field and has a ton of experience and is a good backup policy. But that's about it.
one again DJ lovers talking out of their ass..

according to Broncos.com he has indeed started 5 games and played in all seven..
Code:
Season	Team	Games	Tackles	Interceptions	Fumbles
G	GS	Total	Solo	Ast	Sck	SFTY	PDef	Int	Yds	Avg	Lng	TDs	FF	FR
TOTAL 	1,410 	1,081 	329 	21.0 	-- 	62 	13 	185 	-- 	41 	0 	9 	10
2012 	DEN 	7 	5 	25 	15 	10 	0.0 	-- 	0 	-- 	-- 	-- 	-- 	-- 	1 	--
IIRC brookings was brought in to be a spare part not as DJs replacement.. John knows you can not have to many DB's. LB's or RB's on the roster..

Once again DJ is not a MLB he has played 16 games at it and frankly was not a stuff them at the LOS , TFL or big sackmeister that year..

his expertise has always been WLB and that right now is being manned very well by WW..
lonestar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 07:09 PM   #122
lonestar
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West Texas
Posts: 6,203

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Decker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
This is why your opinions are generally worthless.

Comparing the LB play this year to the past is like comparing apples to oranges. Our DLs have been worthless at being stout at the point of attack in the past where our LBers constantly have had to fight through a lot of traffic.

It's why a flawed player like Woodyard is excelling in this system because his real weakeness in shedding blockers isn't such a big deal because of the job our DL+Von is doing.

And I haven't said DJ is a great LB. He's just a better option than Brooking right now unless he's completely brain dead and can't relearn JDR's defense.
I guess that is the reason that WW had better stats last year 2011 in 6 less starts than DJ had.. It was all because of the DL.. yeah sure.. once again your woody for DJ is showing..

IF JDR and Fox think he is the guy then so be it I just do not think they are that dumb.. to Immediately start DJ over guys that have been getting it done..

all that does is cause dissension in the locker room.. much like what happened when mikey made greise the starter that one year over an experienced well liked veteran QB..

Now if someone goes down I might buy it or IF one of them plays himself out of the job.. but otherwise I see DJ earning his way back on the field and then the only place he can play is MLB as he is not even close to be at WW level this year and SAM well he will never out play Miller..

But we will see what they do in about three weeks, by then DT and WW should have those spots wrapped up..
lonestar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 07:23 PM   #123
lonestar
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West Texas
Posts: 6,203

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Decker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
Or let me put it this way .. . . .

Since Joe Mays was benched three weeks ago, Wesley Woodyard has had to learn the Mike position on the fly since he fills in around HALF of his snaps there because Brooking is so limited.

You don't think DJ can do that? Seriously?
not only no but hell NO..

the guys you mentioned have been on the field, in class/film rooms and practice field all year.. DJ has not been on the field at all and frankly is a 12 weeks or so behind JDRs play book.. with him not being the sharpest tool in the shed I believe it will take several weeks at the least till he is up to speed with all the changes that JDR has brought..
lonestar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 06:03 AM   #124
fontaine
Ring of Famer
 
fontaine's Avatar
 
Go John Manning!

Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonestar View Post
his expertise has always been WLB and that right now is being manned very well by WW..
Before I respond to any more of your posts, do you actually know how many snaps, or ratio of snaps WW plays at the weakside position compared to how many times, say Danny Trevathan does?

If you don't know the basics of how our LBers are used, then like I said, your posts are worthless.
fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 09:18 AM   #125
24champ
Livin' the dream!
 
24champ's Avatar
 
Keep Calm and Chive on

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 19,847

Adopt-a-Bronco:
DomCasual
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonestar View Post

according to Broncos.com he has indeed started 5 games and played in all seven..
Code:
Season	Team	Games	Tackles	Interceptions	Fumbles
G	GS	Total	Solo	Ast	Sck	SFTY	PDef	Int	Yds	Avg	Lng	TDs	FF	FR
TOTAL 	1,410 	1,081 	329 	21.0 	-- 	62 	13 	185 	-- 	41 	0 	9 	10
2012 	DEN 	7 	5 	25 	15 	10 	0.0 	-- 	0 	-- 	-- 	-- 	-- 	-- 	1 	--

Also on Broncos.com...

Von Miller started 7 of 7 games.
Woodyard started 6 of 7 games.
Joe Mays started 4 of 6 games.
24champ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:43 AM.


Denver Broncos