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Old 10-27-2012, 11:04 AM   #51
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Outside the box Harvin. Inside the box Suh. On pace for 9 plus sacks again.
I like the way your thinking! I'd prefer Atkins and Harvin though!
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:05 AM   #52
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You know as well as I do JJ would play strong side DE in our scheme with his freakish athleticism. So you think a corner who is up and coming, not shutdown would make our current D better? We still have a huge void in the middle of the field. In fact any corner playing press, with an interior push from a guy like Atkins and Doom, Wolfe, Miller all pushing from the edge are going to look all world. Peterson and champ may cover the two WRs but what about the slot, TE, and RB? Tell me how many great 4-3 pass rushers are out there? And think of how many good corners are out there? Atkins would make our D drastically better!

There are 3 good pass rushing DTs..
Atkins, Melton, and Suh in that order. **** Melton makes a physical corner like Tillman look all world. How does a corner make our D better? Brady still worked short and intermediate against NY with Revis and Cromartie. Yet the Giants with a freak pass rush and average CB play were able to slow down the Pats high powered attack.
Oh please... the shelf life on DTs is absurd. Atkins will probably be a rotational average player within 3 years.

And yes, having 2 corners that excel in press gives you SO much free to jam up the middle.
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:12 AM   #53
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Oh please... the shelf life on DTs is absurd. Atkins will probably be a rotational average player within 3 years.

And yes, having 2 corners that excel in press gives you SO much free to jam up the middle.
There are only 3 good 4-3 DT pass rushers, they are very scarce which puts a talented one as a high commodity! Pass rushers last a long time in the NFL we aren't talking about a RB.

You don't need to be all world to play press if your pass rush gets home! Two good corners sure hasn't helped NY Jets with New England majority of the time. The blue print for beating elite QBs is pressing at the line but getting your pass rush home! If your pass rush gets home, you can scheme your LBs and play press on the outside. But two all world corners doesn't help a pass rush get home when you can't cover the short and intermediate routes of a TE, RB, or slot WR.
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:25 AM   #54
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There are only 3 good 4-3 DT pass rushers, they are very scarce which puts a talented one as a high commodity! Pass rushers last a long time in the NFL we aren't talking about a RB.

You don't need to be all world to play press if your pass rush gets home! Two good corners sure hasn't helped NY Jets with New England majority of the time. The blue print for beating elite QBs is pressing at the line but getting your pass rush home! If your pass rush gets home, you can scheme your LBs and play press on the outside. But two all world corners doesn't help a pass rush get home when you can't cover the short and intermediate routes of a TE, RB, or slot WR.
that's not really true. you often take quite a bit to develop as a pass rusher(2-3 years to become a complete guy), then you peak for 4-5 years and then a decline. so the shelf life of a pass rusher is about the same as a RB. 8 seasons or so.
by then you normally have either injuries that catch up with you, your skills are declining or you've just gotten to the point where you can't maintain the physique you used to rely on so heavily.
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:25 AM   #55
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gotta go with Patrick Willis. This team needs a leader in the middle of the defense, not just a dominant player, but a dominant personality to move everyone in the same direction.
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:27 AM   #56
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Give me Calvin Julio or Aj green on offense, we have NEVER had a complete monster at WR. On defense I would take Willis or bowman. It's like when ER drafted Von. You simply take the best player. Not only are they the best... They are young and They both fill a huge need. Might be cliche but too me it's very obvious
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:32 AM   #57
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There are only 3 good 4-3 DT pass rushers, they are very scarce which puts a talented one as a high commodity! Pass rushers last a long time in the NFL we aren't talking about a RB.
You go ahead and name some consistent pass-rushing DTs over their careers then.

I'll wait right here.
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:37 AM   #58
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You go ahead and name some consistent pass-rushing DTs over their careers then.

I'll wait right here.
Warren sapp?
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:42 AM   #59
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Warren sapp?
Oh well absolutely. For sure, but come on now... there hasn't been a Warren Sapp since Warren Sapp.
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:46 AM   #60
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that's not really true. you often take quite a bit to develop as a pass rusher(2-3 years to become a complete guy), then you peak for 4-5 years and then a decline. so the shelf life of a pass rusher is about the same as a RB. 8 seasons or so.
by then you normally have either injuries that catch up with you, your skills are declining or you've just gotten to the point where you can't maintain the physique you used to rely on so heavily.
Like White, Strahan, Abraham, Doleman, Taylor, Peppers, Smith, Freeney, Randle, Douglas, Greene, Dent, Taylor, O'Neal, Thomas, Allen, etc....don't agree with you. There are tons more I can bring up as well.
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:46 AM   #61
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Like White, Strahan, Abraham, Doleman, Taylor, Peppers, Smith, Freeney, Randle, Douglas, Greene, Dent, Taylor, O'Neal, Thomas, Allen, etc....don't agree with you. There are tons more I can bring up as well.
Almost entirely defensive ends. Not helping the cause here.
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:57 AM   #62
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Almost entirely defensive ends. Not helping the cause here.
Did I quote what you said
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:17 PM   #63
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Did I quote what you said
No, just applying it forward.

I realize you're carrying a different conversation.
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:18 PM   #64
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Almost entirely defensive ends. Not helping the cause here.
I know the amount of DTs that are really quality for years are few and far between, and I was referring to pass rushers in general as I said pass rushers. That includes DEs..
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:23 PM   #65
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:28 PM   #66
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No, just applying it forward.

I realize you're carrying a different conversation.
To answer your question there are a few. Most are DT/DE type players.
Henry Thomas, Sapp, Pryce, Clyde Simmons, Bryant Young. The point I see BM making is if you can land one of those rare types then you do it.
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:37 PM   #67
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Patrick Willis. MLB is a key hole in our D and he's the best going atm. Having said that, Adrian Peterson would make me think about it.
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:38 PM   #68
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To answer your question there are a few. Most are DT/DE type players.
Henry Thomas, Sapp, Pryce, Clyde Simmons, Bryant Young. The point I see BM making is if you can land one of those rare types then you do it.
Exactly! Since you said Suh you are obviously in the same mind set.
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:43 PM   #69
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ED REEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-27-2012, 01:19 PM   #70
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If I could add one guy this year, it would be Gronk.
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Old 10-27-2012, 01:28 PM   #71
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Old 10-27-2012, 01:42 PM   #72
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Like White, Strahan, Abraham, Doleman, Taylor, Peppers, Smith, Freeney, Randle, Douglas, Greene, Dent, Taylor, O'Neal, Thomas, Allen, etc....don't agree with you. There are tons more I can bring up as well.

almost every guy you mentioned who isn't in the HOF had 8 or so seasons of stand out play.
which is about the same shelf life of a RB. they'll have stand out seasons, have a couple of solid or ok seasons, a down year or two and then either retire or peter out.
i'm not talking about overall career longevity, i'm talking about prime years where they were an impact player and not simply a name one.

Reggie White was one of the best defensive lineman in the history of the game.
both his success and consistency is rare in the game

Michael Strahan, took him til his 5th year to become a consistent force and put together 8 really good seasons and some other ones that were up and down.

John Abraham, he's never really been a complete player. he came on in his 2nd season and has had inconsistent success, he's had 8 stand out seasons, working on a 9th but the past 4-6 seasons he's been a 2 down player or so.

Chris Doleman, he was invisible until his third season. he had 8-9 really good stand out seasons and some inconsistent ones during the other 6-7 years of his career.

Lawrence Taylor, another rare breed type like White. his success is not usually achieved.

Julius Peppers, started off pretty strong, had a down year in his 2nd season, started progressing and put together 8 stand out seasons. if he continues his current pace there could be a 9th.

Neil Smith, took him until his 3rd year to establish himself as a dominant pass rusher, he put together 7 really stand out season.

Dwight Freeney has been good since he came onto the scene, still took him a bit to be a complete player. he's had a injury shortened season and a bad down year season. how many good seasons? 8.

John Randle, started slow, really came on in his third year and put together 8 consecutive really good seasons and then petered off before a resurgent year and then petered off again and retired.

Joe Greene, again, another guy who's consistency is damn near impossible for many to achieve, that's why he's a HOF player and potentially the best complete DE in NFL history.

Richard Dent, he is another guy who was a beast and a consistent terror who is in the HOF for a reason. rarely is that consistency achieved oftern. had he not played the last 4 years of his career you could argue he never had a bad year.

Jason Taylor, took him into his 4th year to become a complete player. his prime was about 8 years and then he fell off into a solid player for the last 4 years of his career.

Leslie O'Neal, he came on strong, struggled, rebounded in his 3rd year and put together 9 really good stand out seasons.

Derrick Thomas, i hope Von can have the elite type of career he had. 11 seasons and never a bad year, but once again, his consistency is damn near unheard of and not likely to occur often.

Jared Allen, he hasn't had a bad season yet in his career.
he's got a high motor, he's been able to stay both healthy and motivated despite cashing in and playing on bad teams.
but once again, his consistency is rare.
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Old 10-27-2012, 02:25 PM   #73
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1) JJ Watt 2) SuH 3) P. Willis
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Old 10-27-2012, 02:49 PM   #74
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Old 10-27-2012, 02:53 PM   #75
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almost every guy you mentioned who isn't in the HOF had 8 or so seasons of stand out play.
which is about the same shelf life of a RB. they'll have stand out seasons, have a couple of solid or ok seasons, a down year or two and then either retire or peter out.
i'm not talking about overall career longevity, i'm talking about prime years where they were an impact player and not simply a name one.

Reggie White was one of the best defensive lineman in the history of the game.
both his success and consistency is rare in the game

Michael Strahan, took him til his 5th year to become a consistent force and put together 8 really good seasons and some other ones that were up and down.

John Abraham, he's never really been a complete player. he came on in his 2nd season and has had inconsistent success, he's had 8 stand out seasons, working on a 9th but the past 4-6 seasons he's been a 2 down player or so.

Chris Doleman, he was invisible until his third season. he had 8-9 really good stand out seasons and some inconsistent ones during the other 6-7 years of his career.

Lawrence Taylor, another rare breed type like White. his success is not usually achieved.

Julius Peppers, started off pretty strong, had a down year in his 2nd season, started progressing and put together 8 stand out seasons. if he continues his current pace there could be a 9th.

Neil Smith, took him until his 3rd year to establish himself as a dominant pass rusher, he put together 7 really stand out season.

Dwight Freeney has been good since he came onto the scene, still took him a bit to be a complete player. he's had a injury shortened season and a bad down year season. how many good seasons? 8.

John Randle, started slow, really came on in his third year and put together 8 consecutive really good seasons and then petered off before a resurgent year and then petered off again and retired.

Joe Greene, again, another guy who's consistency is damn near impossible for many to achieve, that's why he's a HOF player and potentially the best complete DE in NFL history.

Richard Dent, he is another guy who was a beast and a consistent terror who is in the HOF for a reason. rarely is that consistency achieved oftern. had he not played the last 4 years of his career you could argue he never had a bad year.

Jason Taylor, took him into his 4th year to become a complete player. his prime was about 8 years and then he fell off into a solid player for the last 4 years of his career.

Leslie O'Neal, he came on strong, struggled, rebounded in his 3rd year and put together 9 really good stand out seasons.

Derrick Thomas, i hope Von can have the elite type of career he had. 11 seasons and never a bad year, but once again, his consistency is damn near unheard of and not likely to occur often.

Jared Allen, he hasn't had a bad season yet in his career.
he's got a high motor, he's been able to stay both healthy and motivated despite cashing in and playing on bad teams.
but once again, his consistency is rare.
Are you just counting anything over 10 sacks as a good season? Quick glance and you said Doleman had 8 good years. 13 straight years with at least 7 Sacks. He caused countless turnovers and had one season where he failed to reach 30 tackles. He had 15 sacks at the age of 38. Name a RB playing at that level passed the age of 32.
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