The "real" refs have dissappointed me greatly. - The Orange Mane

ozomulsion · 10-21-2012, 04:46 PM

The "real" refs are swinging games at a rate comparable to the Replacements. I watch Red Zone when the Broncos aren't on and noticed how the Replacements were swinging games with bad calls/or no calls at the end of one-score games.

This led me to pay much closer attention to the same things after the Real refs came back. It's wonderful how the games run so much smoother and not having college rules applied to games. In the end, it's hard to truly enjoy it when I see flag happy refs swinging games with fictional penalties being the worst problem. If you don't watch Red Zone, you probably haven't noticed the fact that the Real guys are only faster at making bad calls.

Geez, while I was typing this, an official called a phantom PA penalty against the Jets to give NE a first down that allowed them to get into FG range in OT.

Agamemnon · 10-21-2012, 04:49 PM

Nothing new. The regular refs make bad calls constantly. The whole replacement thing just made it more obvious to everyone.

2KBack · 10-21-2012, 04:52 PM

There was also simply the issue of being able to keep the game going at least somewhat smoothly. Bad judgement calls aren't going to be fixed....but they at least usually know how to keep the game moving properly. They know the downs and distances for example.

Epimetheus · 10-21-2012, 04:56 PM

If you can't tell the difference between the replacements and the real refs, then you sir have not been paying attention!

Crushaholic · 10-21-2012, 05:22 PM

The end of the Tampa Bay game is a good example. The rule is that a receiver, if pushed out of bounds, has to establish himself, in bounds, before he can touch the ball. He did that. That game SHOULD HAVE gone to OT...

Agamemnon · 10-21-2012, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crushaholic

The end of the Tampa Bay game is a good example. The rule is that a receiver, if pushed out of bounds, has to establish himself, in bounds, before he can touch the ball. He did that. That game SHOULD HAVE gone to OT...

Yeah that one blew me away. I guess receivers just need to push receivers out of bounds now rather than actually covering them.

Doggcow · 10-21-2012, 05:28 PM

Honestly, with PI how it is. Idk why teams don't just wing it deep on more plays. 50-50 chance on a 3rd and 10+ you get a PI or something on the D. Worst case too it's a good punt...

Wes Mantooth · 10-21-2012, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozomulsion

The "real" refs are swinging games at a rate comparable to the Replacements. I watch Red Zone when the Broncos aren't on and noticed how the Replacements were swinging games with bad calls/or no calls at the end of one-score games.

This led me to pay much closer attention to the same things after the Real refs came back. It's wonderful how the games run so much smoother and not having college rules applied to games. In the end, it's hard to truly enjoy it when I see flag happy refs swinging games with fictional penalties being the worst problem. If you don't watch Red Zone, you probably haven't noticed the fact that the Real guys are only faster at making bad calls.

Geez, while I was typing this, an official called a phantom PA penalty against the Jets to give NE a first down that allowed them to get into FG range in OT.

It's really hard to read words with that avatar.

Seriously however, have you ever heard the disgraced NBA ref (Donnegy I believe) speak about how he influenced games. It would give a new perspective to this imo.

enjolras · 10-21-2012, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crushaholic

The end of the Tampa Bay game is a good example. The rule is that a receiver, if pushed out of bounds, has to establish himself, in bounds, before he can touch the ball. He did that. That game SHOULD HAVE gone to OT...

Not what the rule says.

Quote:

ILLEGAL TOUCHING OF A FORWARD PASS
Article 8 Illegal Touching of a Forward Pass. It is a foul for illegal touching if a forward pass (legal or
illegal), thrown from behind the line of scrimmage:
(a) is first touched intentionally or is caught by an ineligible offensive player; or
(b) first touches or is caught by an eligible receiver who has gone out of bounds, either of his own volition
or by being legally forced out of bounds, and has re-established himself inbounds.

The key bit being that last clause. The rule says that if you go out of bounds you can't be the first to touch the ball, period. The reason the "re-established himself inbounds" is in the rule is that it distinguishes when the penalty occurs. If you go out of bounds and touch the ball without re-establishing in-bounds then the pass is simply incomplete.

maven · 10-21-2012, 06:35 PM

The real refs same as the ****ty replacement refs.

Lestat · 10-21-2012, 06:41 PM

the real refs are fine. they've made some iffy calls but it's not nearly the same magnitude nor level of pure game play issues as the replacements.

the replacements couldn't keep the game going at a suitable pace, players were trying to get away with anything and everything(and rightfully so) and way too many issues were going on where coaches had to go off on them.

there is no comparison to the real vs replacement. the real ones are much much better.

ZONA · 10-21-2012, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enjolras

Not what the rule says.

The key bit being that last clause. The rule says that if you go out of bounds you can't be the first to touch the ball, period. The reason the "re-established himself inbounds" is in the rule is that it distinguishes when the penalty occurs. If you go out of bounds and touch the ball without re-establishing in-bounds then the pass is simply incomplete.

You got the rule interpretation correct. It's just that the ref blew it and did not call PI. You're not simply allowed to just push a defender out of the endzone. I know they can bump within 5 yards of LOS and if they are close to the sideline that's fine, but I'm pretty sure you as a defender can't just push a player out of the endzone while he is running a route. That was a very badly blown no call IMO.

Doggcow · 10-21-2012, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZONA

You got the rule interpretation correct. It's just that the ref blew it and did not call PI. You're not simply allowed to just push a defender out of the endzone. I know they can bump within 5 yards of LOS and if they are close to the sideline that's fine, but I'm pretty sure you as a defender can't just push a player out of the endzone while he is running a route. That was a very badly blown no call IMO.

Except that incidental contact doesn't exist once the QB breaks the pocket. Hence why the call was right.

enjolras · 10-21-2012, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZONA

You got the rule interpretation correct. It's just that the ref blew it and did not call PI. You're not simply allowed to just push a defender out of the endzone. I know they can bump within 5 yards of LOS and if they are close to the sideline that's fine, but I'm pretty sure you as a defender can't just push a player out of the endzone while he is running a route. That was a very badly blown no call IMO.

That I agree with. It was clearly illegal contact.

Lestat · 10-21-2012, 06:57 PM

looked more like he ran out of bounds while trying to get position.
you can't get pushed, nudged or forced out of bounds in that scenario. you're trying to win a game and you get forced out of bounds? no way.

Crushaholic · 10-21-2012, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enjolras

Not what the rule says.

The key bit being that last clause. The rule says that if you go out of bounds you can't be the first to touch the ball, period. The reason the "re-established himself inbounds" is in the rule is that it distinguishes when the penalty occurs. If you go out of bounds and touch the ball without re-establishing in-bounds then the pass is simply incomplete.

OK. I sit corrected. It was a legal push, because Freeman was out of the pocket. I'm man enough to admit when I am wrong...

enjolras · 10-21-2012, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crushaholic

OK. I sit corrected. It was a legal push, because Freeman was out of the pocket. I'm man enough to admit when I am wrong...

Didn't realize he was out of the pocket (I've only seen the highlight version which only focuses on the receiver).

Broncos4tw · 10-21-2012, 07:11 PM

The regular refs are light years ahead of the replacement refs, I'm surprised so many feel otherwise. It's not the botched calls happening at the speed of the game - no human can always catch those plays that happen as quickly as they do. They are catching many penalties the replacements were missing or ignoring, because they were uncertain of the rules. The players were becoming out of control wit the replacement refs - they could get away with almost anything.

I personally feel they are a massive.. huge! improvement. I'm glad to have them back. They won't always call things the way you want - they will still miss some stuff, but they are so much better than the travesty the NFL hoisted on the teams earlier in the year.

maven · 10-21-2012, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broncos4tw

The regular refs are light years ahead of the replacement refs, I'm surprised so many feel otherwise. It's not the botched calls happening at the speed of the game - no human can always catch those plays that happen as quickly as they do. They are catching many penalties the replacements were missing or ignoring, because they were uncertain of the rules. The players were becoming out of control wit the replacement refs - they could get away with almost anything.

I personally feel they are a massive.. huge! improvement. I'm glad to have them back. They won't always call things the way you want - they will still miss some stuff, but they are so much better than the travesty the NFL hoisted on the teams earlier in the year.

They still ****up just like the replacements.

Broncos4tw · 10-21-2012, 07:33 PM

Of course they screw up - they are human, not robots. No one can go in there at the speed they play, and call it all correctly, and catch everything. It's impossible.

They are still light years ahead of the clowns they put in at the start of the year.

OrangeSe7en · 10-21-2012, 07:41 PM

It seems like the referees, real or replacement, don't call holding penalties on OTs anymore. It seems like they feel like they have to call so many PIs that, to maintain the flow of the game, they have to offset this by calling fewer offensive holding calls.

ol#7 · 10-22-2012, 04:34 AM

You know what you didnt get with the replacements? Protected teams like the Patriots.

It has been mentioned already, but that PI against the Jets was a joke. Guy 3 yards from the play? No Call. Ref 50 yards away after play is over...Flag!

Brady and the Pats are so well protected by the regular ref's.

RedskinBronco · 10-22-2012, 06:39 AM

lots of phantom calls on the redskins in that Giants game. Wonder if Mara threatened the officials. He seems to be trying to do whatever it takes to give the Giants a competitive edge. He's scared of RGIII

edit: and Kerrigan got held about 4 times and no flags...

Crushaholic · 10-22-2012, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedskinBronco

lots of phantom calls on the redskins in that Giants game. Wonder if Mara threatened the officials. He seems to be trying to do whatever it takes to give the Giants a competitive edge. He's scared of RGIII

edit: and Kerrigan got held about 4 times and no flags...

I think I saw one of the holds, on the highlights. I'm going "Wait, that's a hold!"

gyldenlove · 10-22-2012, 09:02 AM

I have noticed that the little holds never get called this season, when the OT gets his hands outside the body it is never called unless the defensive player can get around the blocker and the blocker is holding from the side.

10-21-2012, 04:46 PM	#1
ozomulsion Ring of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 3,597 Adopt-a-Bronco: The ladies man.	The "real" refs have dissappointed me greatly. The "real" refs are swinging games at a rate comparable to the Replacements. I watch Red Zone when the Broncos aren't on and noticed how the Replacements were swinging games with bad calls/or no calls at the end of one-score games. This led me to pay much closer attention to the same things after the Real refs came back. It's wonderful how the games run so much smoother and not having college rules applied to games. In the end, it's hard to truly enjoy it when I see flag happy refs swinging games with fictional penalties being the worst problem. If you don't watch Red Zone, you probably haven't noticed the fact that the Real guys are only faster at making bad calls. Geez, while I was typing this, an official called a phantom PA penalty against the Jets to give NE a first down that allowed them to get into FG range in OT.

10-22-2012, 06:39 AM	#23
RedskinBronco Ring of Famer Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,596	lots of phantom calls on the redskins in that Giants game. Wonder if Mara threatened the officials. He seems to be trying to do whatever it takes to give the Giants a competitive edge. He's scared of RGIII edit: and Kerrigan got held about 4 times and no flags... Last edited by RedskinBronco; 10-22-2012 at 06:42 AM..

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

10-21-2012, 04:49 PM	#2
Agamemnon Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 10,441 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	Nothing new. The regular refs make bad calls constantly. The whole replacement thing just made it more obvious to everyone.

10-21-2012, 04:52 PM	#3
2KBack Rumblin' Bumblin' Cake is delicious Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Wash DC Posts: 7,275	There was also simply the issue of being able to keep the game going at least somewhat smoothly. Bad judgement calls aren't going to be fixed....but they at least usually know how to keep the game moving properly. They know the downs and distances for example.

10-21-2012, 04:56 PM	#4
Epimetheus Just Drafted Yeah Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Catlerville Posts: 18 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	If you can't tell the difference between the replacements and the real refs, then you sir have not been paying attention!

10-21-2012, 05:22 PM	#5
Crushaholic Armchair Poster Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Topeka, KS Posts: 22,043	The end of the Tampa Bay game is a good example. The rule is that a receiver, if pushed out of bounds, has to establish himself, in bounds, before he can touch the ball. He did that. That game SHOULD HAVE gone to OT...

10-21-2012, 05:28 PM	#7
Doggcow Rebel Laughs At Unbelievers Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,302 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	Honestly, with PI how it is. Idk why teams don't just wing it deep on more plays. 50-50 chance on a 3rd and 10+ you get a PI or something on the D. Worst case too it's a good punt...

10-21-2012, 06:35 PM	#10
maven ★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆★☆ Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,757	The real refs same as the ****ty replacement refs.

10-21-2012, 06:41 PM	#11
Lestat Oreo Lucian Rockefeller The New Age Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 5,168	the real refs are fine. they've made some iffy calls but it's not nearly the same magnitude nor level of pure game play issues as the replacements. the replacements couldn't keep the game going at a suitable pace, players were trying to get away with anything and everything(and rightfully so) and way too many issues were going on where coaches had to go off on them. there is no comparison to the real vs replacement. the real ones are much much better.

10-21-2012, 06:57 PM	#15
Lestat Oreo Lucian Rockefeller The New Age Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 5,168	looked more like he ran out of bounds while trying to get position. you can't get pushed, nudged or forced out of bounds in that scenario. you're trying to win a game and you get forced out of bounds? no way.

10-21-2012, 07:11 PM	#18
Broncos4tw Ring of Famer Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,458	The regular refs are light years ahead of the replacement refs, I'm surprised so many feel otherwise. It's not the botched calls happening at the speed of the game - no human can always catch those plays that happen as quickly as they do. They are catching many penalties the replacements were missing or ignoring, because they were uncertain of the rules. The players were becoming out of control wit the replacement refs - they could get away with almost anything. I personally feel they are a massive.. huge! improvement. I'm glad to have them back. They won't always call things the way you want - they will still miss some stuff, but they are so much better than the travesty the NFL hoisted on the teams earlier in the year.

10-21-2012, 07:33 PM	#20
Broncos4tw Ring of Famer Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,458	Of course they screw up - they are human, not robots. No one can go in there at the speed they play, and call it all correctly, and catch everything. It's impossible. They are still light years ahead of the clowns they put in at the start of the year.

10-21-2012, 07:41 PM	#21
OrangeSe7en Ring of Famer New to the Forum Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,666 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	It seems like the referees, real or replacement, don't call holding penalties on OTs anymore. It seems like they feel like they have to call so many PIs that, to maintain the flow of the game, they have to offset this by calling fewer offensive holding calls.

10-22-2012, 04:34 AM	#22
ol#7 Perennial Pro-bowler M&M Connection Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 914	You know what you didnt get with the replacements? Protected teams like the Patriots. It has been mentioned already, but that PI against the Jets was a joke. Guy 3 yards from the play? No Call. Ref 50 yards away after play is over...Flag! Brady and the Pats are so well protected by the regular ref's.

10-22-2012, 09:02 AM	#25
gyldenlove Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: London, ON Posts: 10,027 Adopt-a-Bronco: Spencer Larsen	I have noticed that the little holds never get called this season, when the OT gets his hands outside the body it is never called unless the defensive player can get around the blocker and the blocker is holding from the side.