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Old 10-19-2012, 12:25 AM   #26
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that's what happens when tebow runs around behind the line of scrimmage for eight seconds on every passing play
He had his share the year before.
Myself I think he still has knee issues and Manning is overshadowing that.

Face till manning came to town he had one great year his rookie year after that between his knee problem and DC getting a book one him. He has been slightly above average.

Certainly not a top tier OLT and like I said before there is a lot less pressure because of the pace of the game to pay huge bucks for a OLT like there was before.
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:55 AM   #27
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Still hoping Blake will become the answer at Center. Kid just needs more work in pass protection, but won't get bull rushed like Walton does. IIRC, the team was all set to take DeCastro until the Steelers selected him one pick before us.

I'm taking that to mean they aren't satisfied with the G position either. In my fantasy world , I see them moving Franklin to LG and selecting D.J. Fluker, kid from Alabama, to play RT. That would give us 4 of 5 starting linemen that are experienced at both the run & pass and weighing 320 lbs or more.

LT- Clady 325 lbs
LG- Franklin 335 lbs
C- Blake 320 lbs
RG- Kuper 305 lbs
RT- Fluker 335 lbs
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:27 AM   #28
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Wow I didn't know Franklin was that good in pass pro! Is it me or does everybody feel a little weird to have second and third round picks actually starting and/or coming in a making a difference (Wolfe, Franklin, Hillman, Moore and Decker).
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:41 AM   #29
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Tag him and draft a newbie..

hell he lead the league in holding call last year..

Sounds like someone just playing for a contract where has he been the past few years..

OLT is not the biggie spot that it used to be with quick reads and getting the ball out fast , not as big a deal as it was when QB's were dropping into 7 step drops..

Not that I have counted but I'd think that 50%+ of the snaps are shotgun..

I'm hoping that John we give him a fair contract of less than what he was offered last summer.. If he does not like it TAG him..
Jesus, you're stupid. Smh.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:50 AM   #30
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Still hoping Blake will become the answer at Center. Kid just needs more work in pass protection, but won't get bull rushed like Walton does. IIRC, the team was all set to take DeCastro until the Steelers selected him one pick before us.

I'm taking that to mean they aren't satisfied with the G position either. In my fantasy world , I see them moving Franklin to LG and selecting D.J. Fluker, kid from Alabama, to play RT. That would give us 4 of 5 starting linemen that are experienced at both the run & pass and weighing 320 lbs or more.

LT- Clady 325 lbs
LG- Franklin 335 lbs
C- Blake 320 lbs
RG- Kuper 305 lbs
RT- Fluker 335 lbs
I think they will leave Franklin in the RT position. RT is traditionally the run blocker on the OL and that is his strength since he is a mauler in run blocking. The fact he has grown and is in the top 15 of OTs in pass protection in the NFL speaks to his growth. I agree with someone that said we should probably draft another Center (hopefully someone like a Pouncey). All that said, our OL is really young (Koppen excluded) and is more than likely, one of the best in the league--if not the best. If we draft OL, it will be for depth. I still think we go after a MLB and more DL depth in the draft.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:10 AM   #31
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We could have four pro bowlers on the O line with pro bowl alternates backing them up and people here would still not be pleased.

News flash / we have a good O line with decent back up and a potentially good center learning the position.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:39 AM   #32
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People are going to hate me for saying this, but Manning makes his line better than they are. That's why I'd be for tagging Clady, looking for a LT in the draft, and then if we can find one, trading him. The Rookie would play better under Manning and we'd potentially get a kings ransom for him.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:50 AM   #33
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People are going to hate me for saying this, but Manning makes his line better than they are. That's why I'd be for tagging Clady, looking for a LT in the draft, and then if we can find one, trading him. The Rookie would play better under Manning and we'd potentially get a kings ransom for him.
Interesting proposition to say the least. Who do you see as a team that would really want him?
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:59 AM   #34
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I sure would like to see us run the ball better in short yardage. It kills me when we cant run it on 3-2. Hell 3-1 is even a passing down for the Broncos it seems.

Maybe I am wrong and our interior oline is better then i think. But when the LOS gets loaded up, it seems like they always give up penetration.

Am I the only one seeing it like this?
I hate how predictable our short yardage running game is. It seems like we run nothing but draws which plays directly into our weakness on OL. I can't remember a stretch run, toss-sweep, or misdirection. It seems like we just pack it in and try to follow our weak interior linemen and the RB ends up getting hit 3 yards in the backfield.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:07 AM   #35
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Like I said in other thread. We should of paid the man when his stock was down. Manning was and now is making him a lot more money than his value was at the time.
Team friendly contracts are a joke. Many who have tried such techniques with a big name player have had it backfire on them. Until the NFL gets some real teeth to force players to honor their contracts, there's no real advantage to doing an early deal where, for example in Clady's case, we never knew for sure if he'd return to top tier status.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:53 AM   #36
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Interesting proposition to say the least. Who do you see as a team that would really want him?
Any number of teams, but preferably a team in the NFC: Cardinals, Packers, Niners, Rams, and Eagles are all toward the top of the league in sacks and QB pressures allowed. I promise you at least half of those would be interested in at least talking about it.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:13 AM   #37
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People are going to hate me for saying this, but Manning makes his line better than they are. That's why I'd be for tagging Clady, looking for a LT in the draft, and then if we can find one, trading him. The Rookie would play better under Manning and we'd potentially get a kings ransom for him.
I'd look at the trade market for Kuper before Clady. Too hard trying to find LT's. Odds are Clady is going to get tagged regardless, unless he decides to resign before FA begins.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:15 AM   #38
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People are going to hate me for saying this, but Manning makes his line better than they are. That's why I'd be for tagging Clady, looking for a LT in the draft, and then if we can find one, trading him. The Rookie would play better under Manning and we'd potentially get a kings ransom for him.
Manning does make the line look better than most other QBs would, there is no question or doubt about that. We saw what happened when we went from Cutler, who is mobile and can move in the pocket, to Orton - the same offensive line suddenly gave up about twice as many sacks, the QB is hugely important to how your offensive line plays.

The reason I don't like your trading idea is that getting a LT in draft who can actually start from day 1 and not be thouroughly abused is not a sure thing.

LTs in 1st round of the draft:

2005: Alex Barron (bust), Jammal Brown (few good seasons)
2006: D'brickashaw Ferguson (starter quality)
2007: Joe Thomas (all-pro), Levi Brown (bust), Joe Staley (barely starter quality)
2008: Jake Long (starter quality), Ryan Clady, Chris Williams (bust), Branden Albert (starter quality), Gosder Cherilus (bust), Jeff Otah (barely starter quality), Sam Baker (starter quality), Duane Brown (2 good seasons, 2 horrible seasons)
2009: Jason Smith (bust), Andre Smith (starter quality), Eugene Monroe (barely starter quality), Michael Oher (starter quality)

I count 4 players on that list who did well as rookies, Long, Clady, Thomas and Ferguson. Of the rest who did not turn out be outright busts, the first 2 or 3 years were typically less than spectacular, this includes players like Albert, Andre Smith, Duane Brown, Sam Baker.

Wether we want to or not, Peyton is not going to stick around for long and if we put a rookie LT on the line, that time may be even shorter. We have to play to win right now, this year, next year and potentially 2014 are going to be our window - and I would feel a lot better about that window if it was being guarded on the blindside by Ryan Clady than someone like Jake Matthews.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:16 AM   #39
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Any number of teams, but preferably a team in the NFC: Cardinals, Packers, Niners, Rams, and Eagles are all toward the top of the league in sacks and QB pressures allowed. I promise you at least half of those would be interested in at least talking about it.
What is the market value for a guy who is in line to make a top 3 contract at his position? We have seen recently that guys like that are not in super high demand unless they are QBs.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:33 AM   #40
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I think that money for Clady could be used on other players to better help us "win now" as they say.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:51 AM   #41
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Naw... I think 3rd and 1 is a passing down for any Manning offense.

Jeff Saturday disagrees:

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Old 10-19-2012, 10:57 AM   #42
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Still hoping Blake will become the answer at Center. Kid just needs more work in pass protection, but won't get bull rushed like Walton does. IIRC, the team was all set to take DeCastro until the Steelers selected him one pick before us.

I'm taking that to mean they aren't satisfied with the G position either. In my fantasy world , I see them moving Franklin to LG and selecting D.J. Fluker, kid from Alabama, to play RT. That would give us 4 of 5 starting linemen that are experienced at both the run & pass and weighing 320 lbs or more.

LT- Clady 325 lbs
LG- Franklin 335 lbs
C- Blake 320 lbs
RG- Kuper 305 lbs
RT- Fluker 335 lbs
The team has been very happy with both Beadles and Walton both of which are being coached up.
They missed the off season under Fox in his first year and since TC last year have a real OL coach with the new conditioning and a year under fox they are/were in Walton's case making huge leaps over where they were.

What this fixation is to move Franklin to guard is beyond me. Beatles has proved himself to be a young stud there.
Both him and Walton can put weight on in muscle. Reinventing the OL is not something we have to do. Some quality backups for competition and replacing Clady for a less expensive model will keep this OL improving for the next decade.

What most kiddies still do not get is. You don't need 4-5 pro bowl players on the OL you need continuity more than anything else. They have to trust the guy next to them more than any other part of the team. They have no time to think about what the guy next to him is going do it has to be action not reaction. An automatic reaction because they have done it thousands of times not a few weeks worth.

The best OLs have very few if any changes in them year after year.

If you do what you want we are starting from scratch AGAIN. With all the learning curve our guys have been through the past few years.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:57 AM   #43
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Naw... I think 3rd and 1 is a passing down for any Manning offense.

Jeff Saturday disagrees:

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Old 10-19-2012, 11:05 AM   #44
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I think that money for Clady could be used on other players to better help us "win now" as they say.
I believe your correct. While there is an argument about potential busts in the draft. I have to believe that there will be some OLT available as UFAS that give us experience and not paying them the moon and stars.

I have read in many places the elite OLT is just not as needed as they were 5-10 years ago with the changes in the playbook.

Getting a good one but not elite could solve the problem.

So many folks believe we have to have 4-5 all pros up front and if they are not we are doomed for failure.
The simple fact is eventually they move on for more money because we can't afford to keep all the talent we currently have.
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:08 AM   #45
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I gotta disagree. Clady is one guy we need on that line. With Manning playing 1-3 more years, it's crucial to keep him upright and Clady has the most important job in doing that.
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:15 AM   #46
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people want to trade Clady then use Denver's first round pick to draft another OT? I agree Peyton makes the OL better but the dude is 37 years-old and in the final stretch of his career to get another SB or two and you guys want to have a rookie protecting his backside??
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Old 10-19-2012, 12:43 PM   #47
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The team has been very happy with both Beadles and Walton both of which are being coached up.
They missed the off season under Fox in his first year and since TC last year have a real OL coach with the new conditioning and a year under fox they are/were in Walton's case making huge leaps over where they were.

What this fixation is to move Franklin to guard is beyond me. Beatles has proved himself to be a young stud there.
Both him and Walton can put weight on in muscle. Reinventing the OL is not something we have to do. Some quality backups for competition and replacing Clady for a less expensive model will keep this OL improving for the next decade.

What most kiddies still do not get is. You don't need 4-5 pro bowl players on the OL you need continuity more than anything else. They have to trust the guy next to them more than any other part of the team. They have no time to think about what the guy next to him is going do it has to be action not reaction. An automatic reaction because they have done it thousands of times not a few weeks worth.

The best OLs have very few if any changes in them year after year.

If you do what you want we are starting from scratch AGAIN. With all the learning curve our guys have been through the past few years.
Starting from scratch? 4 of the 5 are already with the team. What little improvement we've seen from Beadles and Walton still doesn't mask the fact they are the weak links in the OL. Only replacing those two.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:08 PM   #48
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I think that money for Clady could be used on other players to better help us "win now" as they say.
If we can find any, as we have seen free agency is a bit of a lottery with relatively few big prices. If we consider MLB, WLB, S, DT, CB and TE the most pressing needs, then S and CB are really the only positions we can expect to be able to get a genuinely good player at. There simply are no top 4-3 LBs in FA next season, DT is position that is more than thin with Terrance (Potroast lol) Knighton being the "cream" of the crop.

At TE I don't see Altanta letting Gonzo go and I doubt he would want to go, Davis is tagged this year in Washington but not getting a ton of receptions and I just don't see them not keeping him.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:15 PM   #49
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The team has been very happy with both Beadles and Walton both of which are being coached up.
They missed the off season under Fox in his first year and since TC last year have a real OL coach with the new conditioning and a year under fox they are/were in Walton's case making huge leaps over where they were.

What this fixation is to move Franklin to guard is beyond me. Beatles has proved himself to be a young stud there.
Both him and Walton can put weight on in muscle. Reinventing the OL is not something we have to do. Some quality backups for competition and replacing Clady for a less expensive model will keep this OL improving for the next decade.

What most kiddies still do not get is. You don't need 4-5 pro bowl players on the OL you need continuity more than anything else. They have to trust the guy next to them more than any other part of the team. They have no time to think about what the guy next to him is going do it has to be action not reaction. An automatic reaction because they have done it thousands of times not a few weeks worth.

The best OLs have very few if any changes in them year after year.

If you do what you want we are starting from scratch AGAIN. With all the learning curve our guys have been through the past few years.
So your plan is to save money, get rid of the one true stud player on the oline, and keep beadles and walton. You should go be the Chiefs new GM.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:16 PM   #50
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At the very least Broncos make Clady play 1 yr under the tag. No way they let him walk.
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