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Old 10-18-2012, 12:29 PM   #51
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J.J. Watt's rookie year: 16 games started, 58 tackles, 5.5 sacks

I think we've set our expectations a little high for MethWolfe right now. He's already outperformed realistic expectations for a 2nd round pick, let's just enjoy the fact that we hit on this particular draft pick, people.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:12 PM   #52
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J.J. Watt's rookie year: 16 games started, 58 tackles, 5.5 sacks

I think we've set our expectations a little high for MethWolfe right now. He's already outperformed realistic expectations for a 2nd round pick, let's just enjoy the fact that we hit on this particular draft pick, people.
Too bad it doesn't work like that around here. No such thing as progression.

He should be performing as good as Watt RIGHT NOW. The fact that he's not even as good as Justin Smith right now either?

Bust.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:12 PM   #53
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PFF is good in some ways, but I personally feel that grading interior defensive linemen is somewhat unfair. Wolfe draws in o lineman. That is his job. He has a high motor and follows the ball. He will grow--HE IS A ROOKIE, and granted he is not Von Miller; however, he is starting for us and is producing. He will continue to grow and expand on that production.
It's not his job to draw OL and Wolfe hasn't produced.

He wasn't drafted as a run stuffer, we already had TWO of those in Warren/Bannan and Vickerson at times.

Wolfe was drafted specifically to provide an interior pass rush and even though he's been moved around to try and get him more one on one matchups he hasn't delivered any kind of half decent pressure.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:27 PM   #54
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It's not his job to draw OL and Wolfe hasn't produced.

He wasn't drafted as a run stuffer, we already had TWO of those in Warren/Bannan and Vickerson at times.

Wolfe was drafted specifically to provide an interior pass rush and even though he's been moved around to try and get him more one on one matchups he hasn't delivered any kind of half decent pressure.
He has 3 sacks and 3 more QB hits. What more do you want from a rookie second round pick in his first 6 games?
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:31 PM   #55
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The problem around here is people have ridiculous bench marks.

What is decent? Somewhere close to JJ Watt?

The fact that he's getting ANY PRESSURE is better than 95% of the DT's that come out of college during ANY ROUND of the draft including top 10 picks.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:34 PM   #56
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.

Pros:
1. Plays with a very high motor.
ugh. might as well say he has a good personality.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:35 PM   #57
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He has 3 sacks and 3 more QB hits. What more do you want from a rookie second round pick in his first 6 games?
And he's played how many snaps?

It's irrelevant what I want. It's what the team drafted him for that's important.

He's playing almost every single defensive snap, with guys like Doom/Von commanding direct attention and he's not provided more hurries.

I don't expect him to rack up the sacks, the team expects him to log quality snaps by hurrying the passer from the inside because he's not an edge rusher.

I'm not sure if he becomes a good interior pass rusher or not but he's certainly been given enough snaps, favorable matchups and opportunities to do so.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:44 PM   #58
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The problem around here is people have ridiculous bench marks.
Yes, that's absolutely right. I do have ridiculous benchmarks because it takes extraordinary performances to win the Superbowl. THAT'S my benchmark for the Broncos.

What's the point otherwise?


Quote:
What is decent? Somewhere close to JJ Watt?

The fact that he's getting ANY PRESSURE is better than 95% of the DT's that come out of college during ANY ROUND of the draft including top 10 picks.
Better? Maybe, but good enough? No.

Anyone who thinks the road to the Superbowl in the AFC in the next few years doesn't go directly through New England is deluding themselves.

The ONLY teams to consistently have success against Brady in the playoffs are teams with multiple pass rushers - from the outside/inside etc.

We've already wasted one first round pick recently in Ayers who's simply not a pass rusher. I don't want another one wasted in Wolfe so yes, the expectations are high.

Just like they were for:

Orlando Franklin,
Hillman,
Decker/DT,
Moreno etc etc.

We have at the most a three year window with Manning for the SuperBowl and after Manning all bets are off. It's absolutely important that our draft picks contribute in a big way as early as possible.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:49 PM   #59
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Yes, that's absolutely right. I do have ridiculous benchmarks because it takes extraordinary performances to win the Superbowl. THAT'S my benchmark for the Broncos.

What's the point otherwise?




Better? Maybe, but good enough? No.

Anyone who thinks the road to the Superbowl in the AFC in the next few years doesn't go directly through New England is deluding themselves.

The ONLY teams to consistently have success against Brady in the playoffs are teams with multiple pass rushers - from the outside/inside etc.

We've already wasted one first round pick recently in Ayers who's simply not a pass rusher. I don't want another one wasted in Wolfe so yes, the expectations are high.

Just like they were for:

Orlando Franklin,
Hillman,
Decker/DT,
Moreno etc etc.

We have at the most a three year window with Manning for the SuperBowl and after Manning all bets are off. It's absolutely important that our draft picks contribute in a big way as early as possible.
With the way he looks right now I am not so sure about that
I originally thought 3 years as well
But dude looks like he could go another 5

Unless his arm strength just completely falls off the map the next year or two I don't see what he is lacking that would prevent him from playing into his 40's like Favre
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:49 PM   #60
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Yes, that's absolutely right. I do have ridiculous benchmarks because it takes extraordinary performances to win the Superbowl. THAT'S my benchmark for the Broncos.

What's the point otherwise?




Better? Maybe, but good enough? No.

Anyone who thinks the road to the Superbowl in the AFC in the next few years doesn't go directly through New England is deluding themselves.

The ONLY teams to consistently have success against Brady in the playoffs are teams with multiple pass rushers - from the outside/inside etc.

We've already wasted one first round pick recently in Ayers who's simply not a pass rusher. I don't want another one wasted in Wolfe so yes, the expectations are high.

Just like they were for:

Orlando Franklin,
Hillman,
Decker/DT,
Moreno etc etc.

We have at the most a three year window with Manning for the SuperBowl and after Manning all bets are off. It's absolutely important that our draft picks contribute in a big way as early as possible.
Ok at least you admit it.

However you are completely being unrealistic. If you have expectations of a 2nd round pick to be playing at DPOY level in his first year, then I don't really have any room in this conversation. Considering it's well documented how long it takes DT's to develop.

I'm not sure why you're not complaining as to why Hillman isn't as good as LT in his prime.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:03 PM   #61
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Ok at least you admit it.

However you are completely being unrealistic. If you have expectations of a 2nd round pick to be playing at DPOY level in his first year, then I don't really have any room in this conversation. Considering it's well documented how long it takes DT's to develop.

I'm not sure why you're not complaining as to why Hillman isn't as good as LT in his prime.
Yes, sure I'm being unrealistic. But those are the expectations you have to have to run through teams like Houston/New England/Green Bay or Atlanta to achieve what this team's ultimate goal is.

And no, I'm not talking about DPOY, I'm talking about quality snaps in hurries/hits and plays compared to the amount of snaps he's getting.

Here's the bottom line: You may treat him like a rookie but that's not the way the Broncos and JDR are treating him.

They've kept him in there for more snaps than any other DL other than Dumervil because they're expecting him to produce now, not 3-4 years down the road.

Did you see how easy it was for New England to negate Von Miller by running the no huddle, going with two TEs to force him into coverage?

Yeah, that's half of our pass rush gone out of the window right there and then you just double team Doom or have the RB chip him in the backfield.

That's our entire pass rush neutralized off a base offense, running a no huddle but still having effective personal to score 24-30 points on us.

Not every team can do that. But AFC playoff teams can and will.

So, that leaves the DTs and Ayers. Take your pick as to who's going to rush the passer from that group.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:15 PM   #62
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The Broncos aren't exactly unique there fontaine. Take away the two best pass rushers on the DLine for any other team in the NFL and they have the same issue. Nobody has 3+ premier pass rushers on one DLine. They blitz LBs or DBs to compensate when their best pass rushers are being schemed against..
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:27 PM   #63
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Broncos seem to be finding decent players each draft. They look like real NFL starters and Miller is a stud. Elway is doing it IMO. Next offseason I bet he finds some interior oline help, linebacker help and the Broncos will be really good. Manning in his 2nd yr and our WR's would by then be fully developed.

We don't know about Hillman yet but if he worked out that would be a huge bonus. If he doesn't we probably need more rbs also.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:31 PM   #64
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The Broncos aren't exactly unique there fontaine. Take away the two best pass rushers on the DLine for any other team in the NFL and they have the same issue. Nobody has 3+ premier pass rushers on one DLine.
You are absolutely right, except for the Giants who stockpile pass rushers. Remember what they did against the Pats the last two times in the superbowl?

The few times Brady played great on drives was when they handled the Giants 4 man pass rush. But along with having excellent disguised coverages and shifting looks from the secondary and multiple pass rushers they did just enough to slow down New England.

Quote:
They blitz LBs or DBs to compensate when their best pass rushers are being schemed against..
Yes, that's right too. We did it in the playoffs against New England in '05 when Al Wilson, John Lynch took turns blitzing and burying Brady into the turf.

But we don't have a John Lynch or an Al Wilson or LBer/DBs that are anywhere near as good reading the play, going through traffic and blitzing or can compensate on the back end on blitzes and maintain tight coverage on TEs.

So that leaves us with the pass rush . .. . . . and to Derek Wolfe.

Last edited by fontaine; 10-18-2012 at 02:35 PM..
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:41 PM   #65
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JJ Watt (rookie season) through 6 games (started all)

18 tackles, 1 Sack

Derek Wolfe through 6 games. (started all)


17 tackles, 3 Sacks


What do you guys think of Wolfe's play so far? Do you think he has a high ceiling or not?

By comparing his rookie stats to JJ I am in no way saying hes on his level or saying he ever will be I just think they have similar builds and both have high motors.
Warren Sapp's rookie year got 3 sacks in 16 games with 8 starts.

Championship?

http://www.nfl.com/player/warrensapp/2502833/profile
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:54 PM   #66
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An interior pass rusher is very hard to find... He's a rookies who's learning two positions on job, cut him some slack.
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Old 10-18-2012, 04:21 PM   #67
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"Wolfeman" just seems like such an uncreative nickname. It's like calling the "Immaculate Reception" the "Nice Catch." Not as crappy as "The Sheriff" but still pretty bad.

I'm sticking with Methwolfe: The Tiger Shark from the Trailer Park.
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Old 10-18-2012, 06:10 PM   #68
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DemonPenz?
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Old 10-19-2012, 02:24 AM   #69
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Stats dont always tell the whole story.

Watt is probably the best player at his position.

Unfair to compare Meth to him.
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