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Old 10-11-2012, 05:58 PM   #101
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DJ is an above avg LB on the field and a below avg person off it. Cut out the driving while boozing and what ever drugs he is trying to hide and be more responsible and he can turn that around. I am beginning to think he might not have a shot to turn his life around with the Broncos which is a shame.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:12 PM   #102
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I'm curious as to what you define a project linebacker as.

Also I it is interesting you will write off Skov for being a strong side 3-4 guy, Andrew Jacksons size will likely put him in the 3-4 in the pros.
Project means someone who will take time to develop. If you think that any of the others are coming in and taking Joe Mays job despite how bad he is. Irving has been in the league two years, is accustom to NFL speed and the play book yet he can't take Mays job. Outside of Te'o the rest are second to fourth round talent.. What makes you think they can over take Mays? It either needs to be Te'o, a FA, or a trade for a player. We need NFL ready at our most glaring area of need!

Skov is a good pass rusher, why would he play MLB in a 4-3? I'm not letting size be a factor, I'm talking just scheme fit and skill set.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:14 PM   #103
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^ I had that same double take, but let it go.
Someone who doesn't start in the NFL right away...
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:18 PM   #104
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I honestly think Reddick would be an awesome replacement for DJ.

with the MLB position, unless we got incredibly lucky and got Te'o there really isn't an every down playmaker ready to start in the draft. I think the most likely route will be replacing DJ through the draft and probably bringing in a free agent to play the MLB spot
Yeah I feel the same way about the MLB prospects. Trevathan is the long term replacement for DJ we hope with Woodyard being the gap filler until he is ready..
I do like Reddick as I mentioned.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:38 PM   #105
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This team isn't getting Teo unless they tank and lose 9-10 games.

The only other prospect I at MIKE that I would strong consider somewhat early would be Kevin Reddick, but that isn't until the late second or third round. He doesn't have the off the field concerns, injury history that some of the other guys in this class do. Plus, his instincts and intelligence are top notch, and certainly more than enough athletic to play on Sundays. Better than any of the North Carolina LBers that have came out recently.

If Minter from LSU came out, I'd place him above Reddik as someone I would pursue. Not interested in Skov or Mauti early because of injuries.

As far as OLB, Mosley is good enough to come out now. Should he stay? Probably.
We both agree about Reddick then, but I still don't think he would start over Mays, the only prospect I could see starting is Te'o. I like Mosley possibly at MLB, but I would take his athleticism at Will. If Jackson can show better fluid movement in his hips he could be a star MLB, but I see him excelling in a 3-4 and a team like Baltimore taking him.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:34 PM   #106
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So believing Williams would help the defense if he was on the field somehow makes people feel better? Yeah, I feel so much better. I fail to see the point. Like has been mentioned by others, it's Williams' fault he isn't playing with poor, idiotic decisions that hurt his teammates and organization. He is hardly someone to pine for, especially since his penchant to make big plays were not that frequent when he was on the field.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:43 PM   #107
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So believing Williams would help the defense if he was on the field somehow makes people feel better? Yeah, I feel so much better. I fail to see the point. Like has been mentioned by others, it's Williams' fault he isn't playing with poor, idiotic decisions that hurt his teammates and organization. He is hardly someone to pine for, especially since his penchant to make big plays were not that frequent when he was on the field.
Exactly....

People need to realize that if DJ was essential to this defense playing better, that he should be held accountable by the fans for being suspended which will probably cost us games by his absence......
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:00 PM   #108
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I'm ready to see DJ go so we can stop trying to rely on him and move on with a replacement. It's too bad he's such a huge upgrade at LB for us though.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:20 PM   #109
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have not read the thread

But just have to say.. while DJ has been heard from in these years not the team leader in any of them..

Code:
2010
46 	D.J. Williams 	Denver Broncos 	LB 	9
36 	Jason Hunter 	Denver Broncos 	DE 	10
36 	Mario Haggan 	Denver Broncos 	LB 	10

2011
NFL Player Stats - Tackles For Loss

Split: 	Rate: 	Season:
Rank 	Player 	Team 	Pos 	Value
84 	D.J. Williams 	Denver Broncos 	LB 	8
84 	Robert Ayers 	Denver Broncos 	DE 	8
84 	Joe Mays 	Denver Broncos 	LB 	8
59 	Ryan McBean 	Denver Broncos 	DT 	9
36 	Elvis Dumervil 	Denver Broncos 	DE 	11
3 	Von Miller 	Denver Broncos 	LB 	21

2012
Split: 	Rate: 	Season:
Rank 	Player 	Team 	Pos 	Value
48 	Derek Wolfe 	Denver Broncos 	DE 	3
48 	Wesley Woodyard 	Denver Broncos 	LB 	3
1 	Von Miller 	Denver Broncos 	LB 	12
http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/play...ckles-for-loss
Kind of looks like WW is on pace to break Dumb Jocks biggie season of 9 hell demolish it..
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:30 PM   #110
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Code:
2011
Rank	Player	Team ▴	       G	+WPA	+EPA	+EPA/G	SC	Tkl	Asst	TF	Sk	SkYd	PD	QBHit	FF	TklLoss	 Int

93	58-V.Miller	DEN	17	2.32	55.3	3.25	65	54	14	0.63	14	82	4	26	3	21	0
92	51-J.Mays	DEN	17	1.26	29.7	1.75	60	72	17	0.83	0	0	3	3	0	8	0
91	55-D.Williams	DEN	15	1.23	30.4	2.03	49	75	27	1.08	5	38	4	6	2	8	0
90	52-W.Woodyard	DEN	16	1.12	20.2	1.26	38	60	27	0.86	0	0	2	0	1	1	0

2012
78	58-V.Miller	DEN	5	0.46	25.5	5.10	26	18	5	0.67	5	33	1	9	1	12	0
77	52-W.Woodyard	DEN	5	0.29	18.6	3.72	23	24	12	1.05	3	16	1	2	0	3	1
76	51-J.Mays	DEN	4	0.26	6.2	1.55	14	7	12	0.69	1	4	0	1	0	0	0
75	57-K.Brooking	DEN	5	0.10	4.7	0.94	12	9	8	0.50	0	0	0	0	1	0	0


 just for jollies 2007 when he was the Mike..

82	55-D.Williams	DEN	16	1.39	50.4	3.15	86	106	35	1.46	1	14	4	1	2	0	1
81	58-N.Webster	DEN	16	0.86	34.2	2.14	50	68	19	0.90	0	0	1	0	1	0	0
80	52-I.Gold	DEN	14	0.75	31.3	2.24	40	61	11	0.85	2	8	5	3	1	0	1
http://wp.advancednflstats.com/defen...=LB&season=all
surprise, surprise, surprise no tackles for a loss, one sack and one QB hit..
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:53 AM   #111
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Project means someone who will take time to develop. If you think that any of the others are coming in and taking Joe Mays job despite how bad he is. Irving has been in the league two years, is accustom to NFL speed and the play book yet he can't take Mays job. Outside of Te'o the rest are second to fourth round talent.. What makes you think they can over take Mays? It either needs to be Te'o, a FA, or a trade for a player. We need NFL ready at our most glaring area of need!

Skov is a good pass rusher, why would he play MLB in a 4-3? I'm not letting size be a factor, I'm talking just scheme fit and skill set.
Skov and a lot of other players have the skill sets to play MLB in the NFL, just because they have been used in a 3-4 so far doesn't mean they aren't skilled enough to contribute right away in a different scheme. The majority of people thought Von would be better in a 3-4 as well. Mays has the awareness of a rookie anyway.

Personally, I think this is a damn good LB draft and I think you will see most "experts" start leaning that way by the spring.
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:01 AM   #112
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Skov and a lot of other players have the skill sets to play MLB in the NFL, just because they have been used in a 3-4 so far doesn't mean they aren't skilled enough to contribute right away in a different scheme. The majority of people thought Von would be better in a 3-4 as well. Mays has the awareness of a rookie anyway.

Personally, I think this is a damn good LB draft and I think you will see most "experts" start leaning that way by the spring.
I still do.
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:12 AM   #113
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I still do.
Well...bad word choice, because that may be. My point is that he is also excelling in our system.
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:52 AM   #114
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Code:
2011
Rank	Player	Team ▴	       G	+WPA	+EPA	+EPA/G	SC	Tkl	Asst	TF	Sk	SkYd	PD	QBHit	FF	TklLoss	 Int

93	58-V.Miller	DEN	17	2.32	55.3	3.25	65	54	14	0.63	14	82	4	26	3	21	0
92	51-J.Mays	DEN	17	1.26	29.7	1.75	60	72	17	0.83	0	0	3	3	0	8	0
91	55-D.Williams	DEN	15	1.23	30.4	2.03	49	75	27	1.08	5	38	4	6	2	8	0
90	52-W.Woodyard	DEN	16	1.12	20.2	1.26	38	60	27	0.86	0	0	2	0	1	1	0

2012
78	58-V.Miller	DEN	5	0.46	25.5	5.10	26	18	5	0.67	5	33	1	9	1	12	0
77	52-W.Woodyard	DEN	5	0.29	18.6	3.72	23	24	12	1.05	3	16	1	2	0	3	1
76	51-J.Mays	DEN	4	0.26	6.2	1.55	14	7	12	0.69	1	4	0	1	0	0	0
75	57-K.Brooking	DEN	5	0.10	4.7	0.94	12	9	8	0.50	0	0	0	0	1	0	0


 just for jollies 2007 when he was the Mike..

82	55-D.Williams	DEN	16	1.39	50.4	3.15	86	106	35	1.46	1	14	4	1	2	0	1
81	58-N.Webster	DEN	16	0.86	34.2	2.14	50	68	19	0.90	0	0	1	0	1	0	0
80	52-I.Gold	DEN	14	0.75	31.3	2.24	40	61	11	0.85	2	8	5	3	1	0	1
http://wp.advancednflstats.com/defen...=LB&season=all
surprise, surprise, surprise no tackles for a loss, one sack and one QB hit..
They weren't registering TFL in their statistics. Go to the Broncos website. They have him down for 12.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:12 AM   #115
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Skov and a lot of other players have the skill sets to play MLB in the NFL, just because they have been used in a 3-4 so far doesn't mean they aren't skilled enough to contribute right away in a different scheme. The majority of people thought Von would be better in a 3-4 as well. Mays has the awareness of a rookie anyway.

Personally, I think this is a damn good LB draft and I think you will see most "experts" start leaning that way by the spring.
Skov's best attribute is his ability to rush passer, I am not saying because of his size or scheme he's currently in as to why I don't see him as a 4-3 Mike. I don't see him as a 4-3 Mike because of his skill set and physical and playing attributes. Scheme usually dictates a lot, but I could easily see Mosely playing 4-3 MLB, and Reddick at Will. Or flip them, but both present great athleticism and flexibility. I like Andrew Jackson as a prospect he has the size of a 3-4 ILB, but I am measuring him just like Skov on his skills, physical, and playing attributes. Miller is almost a 3-4 OLB in our 4-3 Under Scheme, that's how we utilize him and why we use that scheme.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:03 AM   #116
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I could care less about character.... Give me a guy who can play that has an attitude or smokes weed. As long as there are no issues that prevents him from playing in games
.... dude the guy that smokes weed, drives drunk, beats his girlfriend, those ARE the guys that miss the games....you are too funny.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:05 AM   #117
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If Character was the be all end all...then why didn't the Elway/Fox regime keep Tebow on as backup? Hmm.
because he can't play. You have to bring in guys with character that can actually be good football players.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:09 AM   #118
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I'm ready to see DJ go so we can stop trying to rely on him and move on with a replacement. It's too bad he's such a huge upgrade at LB for us though.
Ok, His replacement is Joe Mays, Woodyard or Brookings. How do you like those choices? How about Denver sees if DJ can play start him for the remainder of the season then cut him in the offseason and draft someone to fill his spot properly?
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:12 AM   #119
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Well...bad word choice, because that may be. My point is that he is also excelling in our system.
He absolutely is. He's a great player that's pretty maximized in what he does.

My issue is with the coaches and the FO. Rushing Von all the time puts a lot of stress on the other LBs... especially in coverage situations. But here's my main issue with it:

How do you put the following in positions to succeed and stop plays over the middle?

Von - best utilized rushing the QB or penetrating and making plays behind the LOS

Mays - best utilized in run support, crashing a gap as opposed to reading it

DJ/Woodyard - best utilized in space, both mediocre in coverage at best

^ not a dick's worth of coverage between all of them. In the time it takes for a simple STUNT to develop along the DL, a TE's already catching the ball down the seam.

****ing stupid.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:45 AM   #120
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He absolutely is. He's a great player that's pretty maximized in what he does.

My issue is with the coaches and the FO. Rushing Von all the time puts a lot of stress on the other LBs... especially in coverage situations. But here's my main issue with it:

How do you put the following in positions to succeed and stop plays over the middle?

Von - best utilized rushing the QB or penetrating and making plays behind the LOS

Mays - best utilized in run support, crashing a gap as opposed to reading it

DJ/Woodyard - best utilized in space, both mediocre in coverage at best

^ not a dick's worth of coverage between all of them. In the time it takes for a simple STUNT to develop along the DL, a TE's already catching the ball down the seam.

****ing stupid.
So I'm curious which LB position you think should be addressed first. I can't help but think that if Mays was barely satisfactory in coverage the Defense would look much better. Buying an Extra second of time (or even a second in some cases) plays well into the attacking style they want to run.

I doubt Denver changes the kinds of players they use at WILL. We have a wealth of ball chasers that work best in space right now. Woodyard, Tevathan, DJ, even Irving seem to have similar strengths and weaknesses.

This puts me at a loss for the direction I feel they should go.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:03 AM   #121
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So I'm curious which LB position you think should be addressed first. I can't help but think that if Mays was barely satisfactory in coverage the Defense would look much better. Buying an Extra second of time (or even a second in some cases) plays well into the attacking style they want to run.

I doubt Denver changes the kinds of players they use at WILL. We have a wealth of ball chasers that work best in space right now. Woodyard, Tevathan, DJ, even Irving seem to have similar strengths and weaknesses.

This puts me at a loss for the direction I feel they should go.
I think one thing the Broncos could try is to go ahead and put Irving in at MLB and see if he can cover anyone in space. I'd also start Brooking at weakside just to have him in there to help Irving. That's what I'd do. That unfortunately means Woodyard gets less playing time but the coaching staff already knows what he brings to the table.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:48 AM   #122
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The scheme and what we do really can maximize our personnel but there need to be upgrades. In the 4-3 Under with Von coming off the edge and blitzing frequently as the scheme and front calls, it keeps us from having to add an additional safety to the box in run support. But one of the safety's needs to be a hybrid player who is capable of covering in space and in run support see Cam Chancelor.

To make the scheme work we need two GREAT coverage LBs, we have zero. The SS needs to excel in converge and almost resemble a LB in some responsibility in that he wil frequently cover the TE and roam around the box. The Two tight ends have to be athletic enough to cover players and space, yet strong enough to stop the run..

That puts our needs at a MLB, WLB, and a SS.
In the draft there are candidates..
MLB- Te'o, Reddick
WLB- Mosley, Kenny Tate
SS- Matt Elam, Bacari Rambo

Based on projections that is at least two of our first three picks, it's all three if we choose Mosley over Tate.

I think Denver needs to have direction on who they have and what they are trying to accomplish schematically. A MLB, WLB, and SS are needed if we are continuing to use the 4-3 Under.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:49 AM   #123
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I could care less about character.... Give me a guy who can play that has an attitude or smokes weed. As long as there are no issues that prevents him from playing in games
Weed is a reason a player would miss games. Bad character that leads to poor decisions would cause a player to miss games.

On your idea though, I want players with a nasty attitude that are clean off the field
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:02 AM   #124
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The scheme and what we do really can maximize our personnel but there need to be upgrades. In the 4-3 Under with Von coming off the edge and blitzing frequently as the scheme and front calls, it keeps us from having to add an additional safety to the box in run support. But one of the safety's needs to be a hybrid player who is capable of covering in space and in run support see Cam Chancelor.

To make the scheme work we need two GREAT coverage LBs, we have zero. The SS needs to excel in converge and almost resemble a LB in some responsibility in that he wil frequently cover the TE and roam around the box. The Two tight ends have to be athletic enough to cover players and space, yet strong enough to stop the run..

That puts our needs at a MLB, WLB, and a SS.
In the draft there are candidates..
MLB- Te'o, Reddick
WLB- Mosley, Kenny Tate
SS- Matt Elam, Bacari Rambo

Based on projections that is at least two of our first three picks, it's all three if we choose Mosley over Tate.

I think Denver needs to have direction on who they have and what they are trying to accomplish schematically. A MLB, WLB, and SS are needed if we are continuing to use the 4-3 Under.
I like what you are saying about draft needs and fitting to scheme. I just feel that with Von the 4-3 under does not fully utilize him. His skill, speed, and surpising strength for his size could do so much more than rush off the edge. Look at Clay Matthews. He rushes off the edge and from everywhere along the line. By just rushing him off the edge he at times becomes a liability on run plays because he overpursued going for the QB and left a lane wide open. And that isn't his fault it is the scheme and how he is used.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:07 AM   #125
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The scheme and what we do really can maximize our personnel but there need to be upgrades. In the 4-3 Under with Von coming off the edge and blitzing frequently as the scheme and front calls, it keeps us from having to add an additional safety to the box in run support. But one of the safety's needs to be a hybrid player who is capable of covering in space and in run support see Cam Chancelor.

To make the scheme work we need two GREAT coverage LBs, we have zero. The SS needs to excel in converge and almost resemble a LB in some responsibility in that he wil frequently cover the TE and roam around the box. The Two tight ends have to be athletic enough to cover players and space, yet strong enough to stop the run..

That puts our needs at a MLB, WLB, and a SS.
In the draft there are candidates..
MLB- Te'o, Reddick
WLB- Mosley, Kenny Tate
SS- Matt Elam, Bacari Rambo

Based on projections that is at least two of our first three picks, it's all three if we choose Mosley over Tate.

I think Denver needs to have direction on who they have and what they are trying to accomplish schematically. A MLB, WLB, and SS are needed if we are continuing to use the 4-3 Under.
Until the draft, I'd suggest starting Bruton at SS. He clocked out at 4.46 forty time and he's 6'2" and 217lbs. Maybe he can help. Can he be any more of a liability than Adams?
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