VP Debate

[razorwire77]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Interesting the debate. I think Biden went overkill with the smiling and laughing. He should have reigned it in a bit, especially on the sensitive issues. Biden had better responses on foreign policy and Medicare, which I expected. I thin Ryan pretty much destroyed the idea that the Rich "can pay for evrerything" as a general philosophy and again, predictably had better answers on economic issues.

Biden did a much better job selling his message to America and was better able to keep his views simplified. I think the smirking/laughing was too much and at times he became too aggressive.

Ryan was able to stay calm and stuck to his answers but got lost in the intricacies and by allowing Biden and the moderator to push him around, I think he can across as "just some guy." It's strange that Sarah Palin did better against Biden than Ryan did.

I would give the debate to Biden, but I am curious to see the fallout. Biden came at Ryan like the left wants to see conservatives attacked: Disrespectful, dismissive, sarcastic, and at times outright hostile. This may have been a "let's excite the voter base" play. I think his appeal to the middle class was good, but I think he may have come across as too hostile and at times pretty arrogant. He interrupted the moderator and Ryan several times and acted like he couldn't take anything that was being brought up as even remotely credible. The internet is already latching on to "the smirk" so it's going to be an issue. This is what I thought they might do and if all they wanted was to was energize the base, then that's fine. However if it plays like it's starting to: too much, too arrogant, too disrespectful, it may not pan out with the middle voters as much.

For Ryan, he needs more experience. Biden beat on some issues, and on other issues where Ryan was more substantive and supported by facts, Biden did a better job of re-framing the argument around parameters people can identify with or just shifting the argument all together. Ryan needs to realize who he's really talking to. Hint: It wasn't the moderator.

At the end of the day I don't believe VP debates make too much of a difference. Ultimately this is a fight between Romney and Ryan.

\thread.

In the end, that's pretty much how I saw it. I also believe that this was sort of a Biden the guinea pig type approach. Ultimately, I think the strategy was to test out how the aggressive tone would sell with middle American swing voters. As far as Ryan goes, with the exception of the budget vagueness, he was decent, but definitely on script. In the end Veep debates matter about as much as national polling at this juncture. Although, I imagine this particular debate will be more memorable than most because of its aggressive nature.

[Rohirrim]

I think Biden was right. Ryan came in spewing a bunch of malarkey. Same as Romney. I would've been smirking and laughing too.

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

It just proves that bias rules perception. I guarantee you 100%, if you go back and run a clock on these two guys, Ryan had nearly double the talking time.

And that's what timers are for. Speaking of bias ruling perception, you have no proof of this since there were no timers.

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I think Biden was right. Ryan came in spewing a bunch of malarkey. Same as Romney. I would've been smirking and laughing too.

It seems to me that if it were all "malarkey" that Biden would have more wisely spent his time knocking down said "malarkey" than making faces like he'd been sniffing laughing gas.

[Kid A]

Ryan had the smoother delivery, sometimes felt like Biden was trying to get too many words and numbers out at once, especially early. Might have been a little overkill, as Kaylore said, on the laughing, but it was obviously intentional: he came out wanting to make it clear he was calling bull**** on every other thing Ryan said.

Overall, pretty close from my perspective, though forming consensus seems to be Biden by a fair margin. High points for him were 1) calling out Ryan on asking for stimulus funds and 2) getting Ryan to run in circles to avoid answering which loopholes they will close to pay for enormous tax cuts (kind of wish he'd hammered that even more).

Looked like Ryan had memorized his closing bit, which was probably a bit stronger than Biden's. GOP narrative already seems to be that Biden was rude and bullying or whatever by laughing. Personally don't see how conveying incredulity is a bad way to go (again, it was obviously a pre-decided approach and I'd be lying if I said I don't roll my eyes every time the congressman speaks). And Ryan had a few smarmy moments of condescension as well—not the worst thing, in my opinion, to get a little feisty.

All political views aside, I tend to personally favor the wonkier approach over the emotional angle—I loved Clinton at the DNC, while Biden's speech was clearly aimed at a different target audience. So I could appreciate Ryan's slower, more methodical answers...but as a partisan I did like seeing Biden call him out over and over in no uncertain terms. Hopefully he did something to get the ever fickle Democratic base woken up a little. Most of the heavy lifting in this campaign is still on Obama's plate, though.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I see you missed the debate tonight. What is this that you watched?

Wow, you think Ryan won?

[Kid A]

Also, moderator seemed to do well, but a little too much foreign policy maybe? I get that that is her field, but I think voters could have done with the Syria question swapping with another economic one.

Also, the last question was about feeling sorry about mean campaign ads? Civility in politics is an issue, not sure it's in the top 9 questions the American people are wanting an answer on, though.

[spdirty]

Biden reminded me of hard hat bob. Cranky old **** needs to retire and go home.

[Kaylore]

One thing I thought was interesting was a radio comment that early returns from undecideds who were polled didn't change their minds based on this debate.

[Missouribronc]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

It just proves that bias rules perception. I guarantee you 100%, if you go back and run a clock on these two guys, Ryan had nearly double the talking time.

Haha. Not so.

I know you won't believe Fox News, but they had it timed 41 minutes for Biden and 40 for Ryan.

[Old Dude]

Against my better judgment, I watched this thing. I thought Biden blew Ryan out of the ballpark. But I'm biased. Especially in favor of old farts.

[Missouribronc]

Saw the end of the debate live.

Ryan wasn't offering a ton of "solutions" to problems, though he was being realistic about where we are.

Biden said he needed to offer solutions. Then he proceeded to, again, blame Bush for the problems and offer no solutions in his closing argument.

To me, that was an utter failure.

[Durango]

I'm still up in the air about this election and who to vote for. My wife is solidly in the Romney camp, and I'm still leaning that way, but I'm sorry, Biden steamrolled Ryan tonight. This generalized mish-mash Ryan was selling on everything from tax cuts to Afghanistan isn't going to cut it, but if Obama can't nail Romney down on the facts, then maybe he doesn't deserve to win.

[nyuk nyuk]

Originally Posted by Durango

I'm sorry, Biden steamrolled Ryan tonight.

What?!

I think the most disturbing thing about Biden was the way he didn't answer why the Benghazi staff asked repeatedly for more protection and didn't get it, and the mod let him slide.

[ghwk]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

And that's what timers are for. Speaking of bias ruling perception, you have no proof of this since there were no timers.

And speaking of typical moderator liberal bias you have no proof of that either, it's just fueled by that city block size chip you carry around on your shoulder like a typical whiny victim.

[Durango]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

What?!

I think the most disturbing thing about Biden was the way he didn't answer why the Benghazi staff asked repeatedly for more protection and didn't get it, and the mod let him slide.

Garbage. WHo really knows those particulars, you? And as sad as the death of American diplomat at the hands of those terrorist bastards is, who cares?

How many terrorist attacks has the United States endured during the Obama tenure? How many terrorists have the vastly increased use of drone attacks knocked off, not to even mention bin Laden?

Whatever else this President has or hasn't done, and his track record sucks on the more important subject of the economy, he did manage to extricate us from that Iraq tar pit and is on the path to remove us from the Afghanistan quagmire

Foreign policy is foreign subject to Romney-Ryan. They should avoid it altogether.

[lonestar]

saw just a few minutes of it..

what I saw was a rude old fart that thought it was smart to laugh at his opponent rather than debate with him..



Hey biden must be one of our uber liberal posters..

FWIW I am a firm believer that it was a hail mary, But NO ONE votes for the VP..

therefore a waste of money to produce and watch..

[DBruleU]

Originally Posted by Durango

Garbage. WHo really knows those particulars, you? And as sad as the death of American diplomat at the hands of those terrorist bastards is, who cares?

How many terrorist attacks has the United States endured during the Obama tenure? How many terrorists have the vastly increased use of drone attacks knocked off, not to even mention bin Laden?

Whatever else this President has or hasn't done, and his track record sucks on the more important subject of the economy, he did manage to extricate us from that Iraq tar pit and is on the path to remove us from the Afghanistan quagmire

Foreign policy is foreign subject to Romney-Ryan. They should avoid it altogether.

WTF? I would hope we'd care that our ambassador was killed.

Also, those particulars were laid out yesterday at the hearings on this Libya fiasco. They did ask for protection.

[spdirty]

Early CNN poll gives a slight edge to Ryan.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...n-48-biden-44/



21 minutes ago CNN Poll on debate winner: Ryan 48%, Biden 44%


Posted by
CNN Political Unit
(CNN) – A CNN poll of debate watchers released following Thursday's matchup between Rep. Paul Ryan and Vice President Joe Biden showed 48% of respondents named Ryan the winner and 44% said Biden won.
The margin between the two candidates was within the poll's five point sampling error.


A poll taken immediately after last week's first presidential debate showed a much more decisive victory for Mitt Romney. Sixty seven percent of debate watchers questioned said that the Republican nominee won the faceoff, with one in four saying that President Barack Obama was victorious.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by DBruleU

WTF? I would hope we'd care that our ambassador was killed.

Also, those particulars were laid out yesterday at the hearings on this Libya fiasco. They did ask for protection.

in fact several times..

The guy in charge of the teams came away thinking "the tailban is making the decisions", after the refusals..

..

[Durango]

Originally Posted by DBruleU

WTF? I would hope we'd care that our ambassador was killed.

Also, those particulars were laid out yesterday at the hearings on this Libya fiasco. They did ask for protection.

Worded poorly, sorry. My point was and is that the economy is my primary concern and I wanted answers. I got few from Biden and fewer from Ryan.

I want to hear Obama & Romney go at it this next Tuesday, but I doubt there will be too many specifics as each of these people find more and more clever ways to dance around the questions.

Should be more interesting though as Obama knows he has to make up a lot of ground lost in the first round.

[barryr]

The issues facing this country are serious and seeing a career politician spend most of the night giggling like a girl does not solve a thing or help the image the Obama admin. really knows what they're doing and have real solutions. But the last 4 years have pretty much shown that.

[Dexter]

Originally Posted by barryr

, I see why you'd rather focus on that than the debate Liberals usually resort to that when they have nothing else. I'll look for you to correct spider's posts since his grammar is the worst, though I doubt that will happen.

I didn't really watch the debate, so I really have no room to talk. But it is funny that you're getting so offended, when I'm just trying to give you a pointer. So if you want to sound like a third grader while trying to have an important discussion, that's your right.

I fully expected Ryan to sound amazingly smooth while lying to the American public. Oh and by the way, I'm not a liberal. I think both parties have relevant ideas. Unfortunately the GOP has been taken over by the crazies as of late.

[barryr]

Originally Posted by Dexter

I didn't really watch the debate, so I really have no room to talk. But it is funny that you're getting so offended, when I'm just trying to give you a pointer. So if you want to sound like a third grader while trying to have an important discussion, that's your right.

I fully expected Ryan to sound amazingly smooth while lying to the American public. Oh and by the way, I'm not a liberal. I think both parties have relevant ideas. Unfortunately the GOP has been taken over by the crazies as of late.

Like I stated, I then will expect to see more grammar rule posts by you with others to show your "objectivity." If not, then you're full of BS, but from what you just posted, one sees you are an Obama voter but you just don't want to admit it. Not that I blame you

[zdoor]

Originally Posted by Missouribronc

Haha. Not so.

I know you won't believe Fox News, but they had it timed 41 minutes for Biden and 40 for Ryan.

CNN had the exact same number. Not sure if included the amount of time Biden consumed interrupting...