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View Poll Results: grade demaryius
A: Numbers speak for themselves 18 13.85%
B: Good so far, too many damn fumbles 73 56.15%
C: Hold on to the damn ball, D. Less drops too. 36 27.69%
D: Misleading numbers, he's the #1 WR by default 3 2.31%
F: **** DONNIE, You had one job! 0 0%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-10-2012, 08:06 AM   #76
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I still dont get how a couple of fumbles (and, for all intents and purposes, he's only had 2) downgrade such a great season thus far
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:27 AM   #77
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I still dont get how a couple of fumbles (and, for all intents and purposes, he's only had 2) downgrade such a great season thus far
Buddy, are you actually saying that you don't understand how poor plays impact the overall performance of a player?

Might wanna rethink this one.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:40 AM   #78
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I still dont get how a couple of fumbles (and, for all intents and purposes, he's only had 2) downgrade such a great season thus far
Becuase he turned points into possesions for the opposing team, and two of which they turned into points. Two of those were going to be scores so you're talking a 12 points for the Broncos into ten points for the opponents. Also they are really freaking stupid fumbles.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:50 AM   #79
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Buddy, are you actually saying that you don't understand how poor plays impact the overall performance of a player?

Might wanna rethink this one.
No, of course I get it, and when both fumbles happened, I came close to ripping the TV off the wall. I guess my issue is I don't think this is necessarily a symptom of a greater problem, and they are probably just a couple of outliers that happened to occur in consecutive games (and the first one was really just a fluke). If he fumbles 5-6 more times this season, then sure, lets have that discussion. But to say he's only been "average," when he's really been anything but, simply because of a couple of bad plays, I think is overly critical. Plus, lets say one of those fumbles were recovered. Would we still hate on him as much? Probably not.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:06 AM   #80
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No, of course I get it, and when both fumbles happened, I came close to ripping the TV off the wall. I guess my issue is I don't think this is necessarily a symptom of a greater problem, and they are probably just a couple of outliers that happened to occur in consecutive games (and the first one was really just a fluke). If he fumbles 5-6 more times this season, then sure, lets have that discussion. But to say he's only been "average," when he's really been anything but, simply because of a couple of bad plays, I think is overly critical. Plus, lets say one of those fumbles were recovered. Would we still hate on him as much? Probably not.
A couple outliers? He's lost one in each of the last 3 games man. That certainly does detract from his performance.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:19 AM   #81
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you think this is because of stress Or just a random occurance? Im voting the latter
Yah because he tried to do too much. Instead of just running as fast as he can and protecting the ball, he tried to switch hands and deliver a stiff arm. He probably would not have scored a TD on that play because the DBs were gonna catch him. But he's a big dude anyway so he might have been able to make it into the endzone if he just kept running as hard has he could, perhaps shedding the tackle in the process.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:20 AM   #82
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A couple outliers? He's lost one in each of the last 3 games man. That certainly does detract from his performance.
Two really. The third was on that play at the end of the Houston game when everyone was lateraling. Im not holding that one against him. I just think he's been a MONSTER outside of that, and clearly our best weapon (manning aside) on offense. The fumbles have been frustrating, no doubt, Im just saying his play outside of that, for me, has more than made up for it.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:24 AM   #83
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Two really. The third was on that play at the end of the Houston game when everyone was lateraling. Im not holding that one against him. I just think he's been a MONSTER outside of that, and clearly our best weapon (manning aside) on offense. The fumbles have been frustrating, no doubt, Im just saying his play outside of that, for me, has more than made up for it.
Still not understanding your POV man.

On one hand, you're saying the fumbles were bad and understand how they detract from his performance while maintaining that they don't detract from his performance.

You're blowing my mind up here.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:26 AM   #84
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Still not understanding your POV man.

On one hand, you're saying the fumbles were bad and understand how they detract from his performance while maintaining that they don't detract from his performance.

You're blowing my mind up here.
haha. I actually just explained myself a lot better to you in a positive rep. I think they should detract from his "grade," i just dont think they pull em to "average." I think he's been pretty awesome, so I'd give him a "90" if we have to grade. He's definitely not a "75."
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:44 AM   #85
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Becuase he turned points into possesions for the opposing team, and two of which they turned into points. Two of those were going to be scores so you're talking a 12 points for the Broncos into ten points for the opponents. Also they are really freaking stupid fumbles.
OK So I didnt get to watch the NE game (I was on a plane coming home from Denver for personal reasons I will not discuss here), but Im assuming his fumble in the NE game led to 7 NE points yes and that had he not fumbled we would have scored at least 3 points, probably a TD.

But Im struggling understanding how you get the 10 points for the opponents.

The first fumble was against the Texans at the end of the game> Opponents didn't score.

The second fumble was against the Raiders, which they punted on, didn't score.

The third fumble against New England, must have led to 10 points? Neat trick that.

Two of his fumbles certainly cost Denver at minimum 6 total points and possibly 14 total points (as I count the PAT as good with Prater). I get how he cost us points, but how did the opponents get 10? Am I misremembering the Raider game that they scored a FG on that drive?
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:51 AM   #86
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He fumbled moving the ball doing the correct thing did he not against Oakland? Against the Pats the D player made a very good play on the ball. Till I see him fumble being reckless, careless, or show boating I'll let him slide.
This pretty much sums it up. A physical error made while making the right mental call, and a learning experience (DBs can an will go after that ball kid).
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:55 AM   #87
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Oakland game fumble for example made the game 10-6 at halftime with Oakland getting the ball after halftime. If he holds on we probably take a 17-3 commanding lead and Oakland folds up like a cheap tent. We just got lucky that Oakland wasn't a very good team but that is how you lose to teams that aren't as good as you are.

New England game we would of got at least 3 out of that drive when DT fumbled. Game would of been a one possesion game when Willis puked it up and this place would of been fuming at Willis.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:56 AM   #88
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OK So I didnt get to watch the NE game (I was on a plane coming home from Denver for personal reasons I will not discuss here), but Im assuming his fumble in the NE game led to 7 NE points yes and that had he not fumbled we would have scored at least 3 points, probably a TD.

But Im struggling understanding how you get the 10 points for the opponents.

The first fumble was against the Texans at the end of the game> Opponents didn't score.

The second fumble was against the Raiders, which they punted on, didn't score.

The third fumble against New England, must have led to 10 points? Neat trick that.

Two of his fumbles certainly cost Denver at minimum 6 total points and possibly 14 total points (as I count the PAT as good with Prater). I get how he cost us points, but how did the opponents get 10? Am I misremembering the Raider game that they scored a FG on that drive?
Actually NE punted on the drive after the fumble
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:58 AM   #89
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Also they are really freaking stupid fumbles.
Yes, the Raiders fumble was "stupid", but was really just a mistake that ended badly. But I don't see how the fumble against the Pats was "stupid". It was really a perfect play by the defender and could've/would've happened to just about anyone.

I think the real issue here is emotion. Those fumbles turned big, positive plays, which DT himself had a big role in making, into negative plays. So as fans we go from elation to getting punched in the gut.

Yes, those fumbles count against DT's performance. But I'm not sure they're enough to warrant his superb overall body of work thus far this season an average grade. If DT is average I wish we had a whole team of average players!
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:08 AM   #90
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I still like BroncoStevens idea to have someone just follow him around to pick up his fumbles
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:26 AM   #91
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OK So I didnt get to watch the NE game (I was on a plane coming home from Denver for personal reasons I will not discuss here), but Im assuming his fumble in the NE game led to 7 NE points yes and that had he not fumbled we would have scored at least 3 points, probably a TD.

But Im struggling understanding how you get the 10 points for the opponents.

The first fumble was against the Texans at the end of the game> Opponents didn't score.

The second fumble was against the Raiders, which they punted on, didn't score.

The third fumble against New England, must have led to 10 points? Neat trick that.

Two of his fumbles certainly cost Denver at minimum 6 total points and possibly 14 total points (as I count the PAT as good with Prater). I get how he cost us points, but how did the opponents get 10? Am I misremembering the Raider game that they scored a FG on that drive?
I thought the Raiders got a field goal off his fumble. Honest mistake.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:26 AM   #92
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Yes, the Raiders fumble was "stupid", but was really just a mistake that ended badly. But I don't see how the fumble against the Pats was "stupid". It was really a perfect play by the defender and could've/would've happened to just about anyone.

I think the real issue here is emotion. Those fumbles turned big, positive plays, which DT himself had a big role in making, into negative plays. So as fans we go from elation to getting punched in the gut.

Yes, those fumbles count against DT's performance. But I'm not sure they're enough to warrant his superb overall body of work thus far this season an average grade. If DT is average I wish we had a whole team of average players!
No, he should know they're going to try and punch the ball out. That happens all the time in high school games.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:38 AM   #93
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I'm gonna end this nonsense right now. He gets a B+

If you miss a few questions on a test, the teacher doesn't knock you down to a C-, god some of you people are really stupid. The dude is on pace for almost 2000 yards or receiving. You expect to have a few turnovers, maybe he's just had his early. And as I pointed out before, if you're going to give Thomas a C then you better damn well not give Manning an A or B either. How could you, that would be so hypocritical it's not even funny.

Manning gets an A-
Thomas gets a B+
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:10 PM   #94
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I'm gonna end this nonsense right now. He gets a B+

If you miss a few questions on a test, the teacher doesn't knock you down to a C-, god some of you people are really stupid. The dude is on pace for almost 2000 yards or receiving. You expect to have a few turnovers, maybe he's just had his early. And as I pointed out before, if you're going to give Thomas a C then you better damn well not give Manning an A or B either. How could you, that would be so hypocritical it's not even funny.

Manning gets an A-
Thomas gets a B+
That's a little too passionate of a response to take seriously. You grade the entire performance, including the plays he did not make.

I grade like coaches grade by watching every play and seeing if the player executed his responsibility. TO's are major minuses, and yes that does not include the HOU fumble. So, DT has two fumbles that negated 83 yards of offense, but he still gets credit in his PERSONAL stats for those 83 yards despite the offense never realizing those yards due to the turnover. Put those against his 2 TD's and its a wash on Major plays.

Also, grade him on the missed plays, not just drops, he has made to date. He dropped 4 passes, 3 of which would have resulted in first downs where the offense stalled and failed to score. He also missed more than a few routes when given the opportunity to be targeted. One of those was hard to tell if it was his fault or just poor chemistry with Manning to date. 5 of them though were poor routes or poor reads. 4 would have been a first down and kept a drive alive that stalled and failed to earn points.

Opportunity cost in failing to make plays keeps his performance grade to date much lower than his actual playing ability. He is NOT an average WR in the NFL, but he has played average in his five games to date with all the mistakes he has made that have contributed to stalled drives and TO's. Also, he does get the benefit of having a QB get him the ball when he is open the majority of the time. Having a Great QB throw you the ball helps as a WR. To have only a 61% catch rate through four games, and 65% after I graded the last game shows he can improve when given the chance to get targeted.

DT is growing and after the fumble he did not make more mistakes against NE, while catching 9 of 11 targets. That performance is very good, excluding the early game changing fumble. The problem is, his mistake drastically changed the game on the first drive.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:01 PM   #95
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Fox has to bench DT..Fumbles the ball a lot..If he keeps doing it, manning will not throw to him.
He's a bit inconsistent...nobody says he isn't. But you're just being stupid now.....
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:28 PM   #96
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haha. I actually just explained myself a lot better to you in a positive rep. I think they should detract from his "grade," i just dont think they pull em to "average." I think he's been pretty awesome, so I'd give him a "90" if we have to grade. He's definitely not a "75."
Don't worry, you can give Rev neg reps if you want... he kinda gets off on them (or so I've heard).
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:34 PM   #97
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That's a little too passionate of a response to take seriously. You grade the entire performance, including the plays he did not make.

I grade like coaches grade by watching every play and seeing if the player executed his responsibility. TO's are major minuses, and yes that does not include the HOU fumble. So, DT has two fumbles that negated 83 yards of offense, but he still gets credit in his PERSONAL stats for those 83 yards despite the offense never realizing those yards due to the turnover. Put those against his 2 TD's and its a wash on Major plays.

Also, grade him on the missed plays, not just drops, he has made to date. He dropped 4 passes, 3 of which would have resulted in first downs where the offense stalled and failed to score. He also missed more than a few routes when given the opportunity to be targeted. One of those was hard to tell if it was his fault or just poor chemistry with Manning to date. 5 of them though were poor routes or poor reads. 4 would have been a first down and kept a drive alive that stalled and failed to earn points.

Opportunity cost in failing to make plays keeps his performance grade to date much lower than his actual playing ability. He is NOT an average WR in the NFL, but he has played average in his five games to date with all the mistakes he has made that have contributed to stalled drives and TO's. Also, he does get the benefit of having a QB get him the ball when he is open the majority of the time. Having a Great QB throw you the ball helps as a WR. To have only a 61% catch rate through four games, and 65% after I graded the last game shows he can improve when given the chance to get targeted.

DT is growing and after the fumble he did not make more mistakes against NE, while catching 9 of 11 targets. That performance is very good, excluding the early game changing fumble. The problem is, his mistake drastically changed the game on the first drive.
Another great post by Mediator12.... some posters make me a smarter football fan, and he's at the top of the list. (along with the boys on the OM podcast, of course)

/thread with that post, IMO

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Old 10-10-2012, 10:49 PM   #98
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To have only a 61% catch rate through four games, and 65% after I graded the last game shows he can improve when given the chance to get targeted.

DT is growing and after the fumble he did not make more mistakes against NE, while catching 9 of 11 targets. That performance is very good, excluding the early game changing fumble. The problem is, his mistake drastically changed the game on the first drive.
Lets enlighten the people

Game one: 7 targets, 5 receptions
Game two: 11 targets, 8 receptions
Game three: 11 targets, 3 receptions
Game four: 6 targets, 5 receptions
Game five: 11 targets, 9 receptions

Other than game three, he's done a damn good job catching the ball. Drastically changed the game on the first drive? It's 0-0. No team is winning or losing.

Two of the three fumbles can be considered long punts since they were big plays that lost the ball/and yes also missed opportunities. Were the turnovers game killers? The 3rd fumble I believe was at the end of the falcons game(tossing the ball around to score a TD on the last play)?

He's been a hell of a player this year. Can he get better? Sure!
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:52 PM   #99
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Lets enlighten the people

Game one: 7 targets, 5 receptions
Game two: 11 targets, 8 receptions
Game three: 11 targets, 3 receptions
Game four: 6 targets, 5 receptions
Game five: 11 targets, 9 receptions

Other than game three, he's done a damn good job catching the ball. Drastically changed the game on the first drive? It's 0-0. No team is winning or losing.

Two of the three fumbles can be considered long punts since they were big plays that lost the ball/and yes also missed opportunities. Were the turnovers game killers? The 3rd fumble I believe was at the end of the falcons game(tossing the ball around to score a TD on the last play)?

He's been a hell of a player this year. Can he get better? Sure!
What's funny is DT and Miller are playing the best on the whole team. Minus any OL that I do not pay attention to.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:53 PM   #100
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To say he has played average IMO is wrong.
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