Derek Wolfe was a non factor against Oakland - The Orange Mane

fontaine · 10-03-2012, 03:53 PM

Just my observations from rewatching every defensive snap Wolfe played against the Raiders Week 4.

I hadn't really paid much attention to him before so I wanted to see what kind of game he put in.

Alignment: Wolfe played all over the DL. RDE/LDE, both DT slots. The only time he didn't stay on the field was when he was obviously gassed or we went to Psycho Fronts with the Front 7 standing up.

1st step off the snap: This is where Wolfe disapointed the most. Regardless of where he lined up, who he lined up against, he was consistently the slowest DL in his first step. I won't compare him to Dumervil because that's just unfair but Vickerson/Unrein and even Bannan had a quicker first step than Wolfe.

Like I said I haven't tracked his individual play from weeks 1-3 so I can't compare historically but in this game he was just, well, hesitant.

Positives: Was very stout against the run, didn't give up his ground even when up against two blockers. Contained his gap very well when he couldn't penetrate. But we didn't really get this guy to stop the run I guess.

Negatives: Just really his first step. It was all just a mash after that. Because he was slower with no snap/explosiveness he didn't get the right body lean, leverage, and positioning to do much to get past his blocker(s).

I'M NOT calling him a bust. Just stating what I saw, anyone else is welcome to rewatch the game or provide their thoughts on what they saw from week 1-3.

EDIT: Even when we were up two scores and the DL had free license to rush the QB he still was our slowest DLman out there.

fontaine · 10-03-2012, 03:54 PM

Now the DT that REALLY stood out from our group was Vickerson.

Very quick first step for a 320 lb guy, gets good leverage, and hand placement and just bull rushes like a freight train. He was active in the back field almost every single snap he logged. Easily our best DT.

crush17 · 10-03-2012, 03:57 PM

He's a rookie.

fontaine · 10-03-2012, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crush17

He's a rookie.

You could be right. Maybe he was just not anticipating the snap (Dumervil's consistently great at doing that).

Maybe he was carrying an injury.

Or maybe he just played slow, like Ayers did in his rookie season.

The only time I would expect a rookie DE/DT to play hesitant or slow is if he's having to read and react (ie read the play on whether to drop back into coverage) but he wasn't asked to do that at all.

bap454 · 10-03-2012, 04:27 PM

Not to disprove your theory but... He was the tackler on the near saftey at the goal line.

RhymesayersDU · 10-03-2012, 04:38 PM

The NFL's drug testing policies are tougher than previously thought. Still working on a way around it.

brother love · 10-03-2012, 04:39 PM

Stout against the run. Yeah how disappointing we haven't needed that in years.

fontaine · 10-03-2012, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bap454

Not to disprove your theory but... He was the tackler on the near saftey at the goal line.

You're not. It was Vickerson that pushed his guy right into the backfield and clogged the interior which forced the runner outside right into Wolfe who did a job of tackling.

The trigger man on the play was Vickerson.

I'm not really looking at Wolfe as a run stopper first (we can already do that with Ayers at DE), but as a pass rusher.

HorseHead · 10-03-2012, 04:43 PM

Wolfe is someone who actually could have a big game Sunday..this is not your older brother's Patriots O Line..

very much in transition..Light retired, Waters is a head case, and is chillin' on the couch, I think we know where Koppen will be on Sunday, and Mankins is nicked up..

cutthemdown · 10-03-2012, 04:46 PM

actually sometimes on DL isn't supposed to try and get a big first step. Especially vs a zone blocking team like the Raiders. I think Wolfe has looked pretty good for a rookie, but he could hit some walls as the season progresses

fontaine · 10-03-2012, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

actually sometimes on DL isn't supposed to try and get a big first step. Especially vs a zone blocking team like the Raiders. I think Wolfe has looked pretty good for a rookie, but he could hit some walls as the season progresses

That was Bannan's role. He was lined up one yard off the line of scrimmage consistently for that.

dictionary · 10-03-2012, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fontaine

That was Bannan's role. He was lined up one yard off the line of scrimmage consistently for that.

Holy Hell. You are JDR, aren't you?!

Rabb · 10-03-2012, 04:59 PM

I don't agree, he was dictating quite a few plays towards the edge...letting Doom and Von do work.

lonestar · 10-03-2012, 05:00 PM

always someone trying to piss on someone parade..

how about we wait to see how the rest of the year goes..

there is always someone running around yelling the sky is falling..

Marshall Dumervil · 10-03-2012, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonestar

always someone trying to piss on someone parade..

how about we wait to see how the rest of the year goes..

there is always someone running around yelling the sky is falling..

Who's saying the sky is falling? The title says he was anon-factor at Oakland. I wouldn't say he was complete non-factor in the raider game but he's a rook, and I'm happy with his game right now.

houghtam · 10-03-2012, 05:19 PM

How dare you.

How.

Dare.

You.

AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOlickitOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Requiem · 10-03-2012, 05:37 PM

Had two good weeks, one average week and a bad week. We will give it time.

Jay3 · 10-03-2012, 05:48 PM

Needs more meth.

lonestar · 10-03-2012, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall Dumervil

Who's saying the sky is falling? The title says he was anon-factor at Oakland. I wouldn't say he was complete non-factor in the raider game but he's a rook, and I'm happy with his game right now.

well in actuallity he did not say teh sky was falling..

he said

Quote:

Negatives: Just really his first step. It was all just a mash after that. Because he was slower with no snap/explosiveness he didn't get the right body lean, leverage, and positioning to do much to get past his blocker(s).

EDIT: Even when we were up two scores and the DL had free license to rush the QB he still was our slowest DLman out there.

IMO that sounds like chicken little..

TonyR · 10-03-2012, 06:27 PM

According to this he played poorly against Atlanta as well:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...y-team-week-2/

cutthemdown · 10-03-2012, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fontaine

That was Bannan's role. He was lined up one yard off the line of scrimmage consistently for that.

Yeah I was just throwing it out there. Honestly I didn't watch just him enough to say. He didn't stick out in the game for either having offensive players run by him, or for making a lot of plays. Broncos bring a lot of outside pressure. There is a chance they have the end not fire off as fast so he has better chance at containing the play. Not saying that is what was happening I have no idea really lol.

Kaylore · 10-03-2012, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonestar

always someone trying to piss on someone parade..

how about we wait to see how the rest of the year goes..

there is always someone running around yelling the sky is falling..

Bmore Manning · 10-03-2012, 07:19 PM

Fontaine, thank you for the observations and the write up. It's ashame you can't share your thoughts and have a constructive talk on here, without being told this is a sky is falling thread.

I posted a thread a few weeks ago called problems and solutions and offered a very similar analysis. Wolfe is not explosive off his first step, he doesn't have great technique yet.. But he is relentless! I understand the importance of having a run stopping DE on the strong side. This allows Miller to come off the edge in our 4-3 Under Look. He has the Red Bryant DE role from Seattle in their similar scheme. Understanding our scheme and player roles, I would rather see Malik play that DE role. He is stout against the run and more explosive as a pass rusher as evidence from pre season, Jackson seemed to be everywhere!

I could understand Ayers in a rotation with Jackson to get him accommodated to the speed of the game and transition him to an NFL player. Wolfe would be better suited to play UT with an impressive Vickerson playing the NT. Wolfe's relentlessness would allow him to use his natural abilities from the interior, and his weaknesses would not be exposed as they are on the edge.

Bacchus · 10-03-2012, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall Dumervil

Who's saying the sky is falling? The title says he was anon-factor at Oakland. I wouldn't say he was complete non-factor in the raider game but he's a rook, and I'm happy with his game right now.

I agree, making some good observations. I imagine Wolfe will be a non-factor alot of this season.

Bacchus · 10-03-2012, 07:30 PM

I like this DL. I like Wolfe, Vickerson, Banan, Doonm and Ayers. There are a lot of lunch box guys here and they have done a great job stopping the run and getting pressures on the QB.

10-03-2012, 03:53 PM	#1
fontaine Ring of Famer Go John Manning! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,435	Derek Wolfe was a non factor against Oakland Just my observations from rewatching every defensive snap Wolfe played against the Raiders Week 4. I hadn't really paid much attention to him before so I wanted to see what kind of game he put in. Alignment: Wolfe played all over the DL. RDE/LDE, both DT slots. The only time he didn't stay on the field was when he was obviously gassed or we went to Psycho Fronts with the Front 7 standing up. 1st step off the snap: This is where Wolfe disapointed the most. Regardless of where he lined up, who he lined up against, he was consistently the slowest DL in his first step. I won't compare him to Dumervil because that's just unfair but Vickerson/Unrein and even Bannan had a quicker first step than Wolfe. Like I said I haven't tracked his individual play from weeks 1-3 so I can't compare historically but in this game he was just, well, hesitant. Positives: Was very stout against the run, didn't give up his ground even when up against two blockers. Contained his gap very well when he couldn't penetrate. But we didn't really get this guy to stop the run I guess. Negatives: Just really his first step. It was all just a mash after that. Because he was slower with no snap/explosiveness he didn't get the right body lean, leverage, and positioning to do much to get past his blocker(s). I'M NOT calling him a bust. Just stating what I saw, anyone else is welcome to rewatch the game or provide their thoughts on what they saw from week 1-3. EDIT: Even when we were up two scores and the DL had free license to rush the QB he still was our slowest DLman out there. Last edited by fontaine; 10-03-2012 at 03:55 PM..

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10-03-2012, 03:54 PM	#2
fontaine Ring of Famer Go John Manning! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,435	Now the DT that REALLY stood out from our group was Vickerson. Very quick first step for a 320 lb guy, gets good leverage, and hand placement and just bull rushes like a freight train. He was active in the back field almost every single snap he logged. Easily our best DT.

10-03-2012, 03:57 PM	#3
crush17 orange & blue Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 2,691 Adopt-a-Bronco: DT88	He's a rookie.

10-03-2012, 04:27 PM	#5
bap454 Perennial Pro-bowler Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 984 Adopt-a-Bronco: Wesley Woodyard	Not to disprove your theory but... He was the tackler on the near saftey at the goal line.

10-03-2012, 04:38 PM	#6
RhymesayersDU Go Broncos, Nuggets, Rox GANGNAM STYLE Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Back In The 303! Posts: 14,848 Adopt-a-Bronco: Ty Lawson	The NFL's drug testing policies are tougher than previously thought. Still working on a way around it.

10-03-2012, 04:39 PM	#7
brother love Pro Bowler Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: lancaster, pa Posts: 523	Stout against the run. Yeah how disappointing we haven't needed that in years.

10-03-2012, 04:43 PM	#9
HorseHead Ring of Famer Stay thirsty my friends.. Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,212 Adopt-a-Bronco: Bay Bay	Wolfe is someone who actually could have a big game Sunday..this is not your older brother's Patriots O Line.. very much in transition..Light retired, Waters is a head case, and is chillin' on the couch, I think we know where Koppen will be on Sunday, and Mankins is nicked up..

10-03-2012, 04:46 PM	#10
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,878	actually sometimes on DL isn't supposed to try and get a big first step. Especially vs a zone blocking team like the Raiders. I think Wolfe has looked pretty good for a rookie, but he could hit some walls as the season progresses

10-03-2012, 04:59 PM	#13
Rabb Zombie Slayer Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 5,308 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	I don't agree, he was dictating quite a few plays towards the edge...letting Doom and Von do work.

10-03-2012, 05:00 PM	#14
lonestar Day One Fan Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West Texas Posts: 6,213 Adopt-a-Bronco: Decker	always someone trying to piss on someone parade.. how about we wait to see how the rest of the year goes.. there is always someone running around yelling the sky is falling..

10-03-2012, 05:19 PM	#16
houghtam WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION MethWolfeAlliance Member #11001001 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Lansing, MI Posts: 5,108 Adopt-a-Bronco: Demon Eagles	How dare you. How. Dare. You. AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOlickitOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

10-03-2012, 05:37 PM	#17
Requiem ~~~ ~ ~ ~ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Earth Division Posts: 19,837 Adopt-a-Bronco: Gilgamesh	Had two good weeks, one average week and a bad week. We will give it time.

10-03-2012, 05:48 PM	#18
Jay3 Sad Elway Ah . . . no. Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,407 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	Needs more meth.

10-03-2012, 06:27 PM	#20
TonyR Franchise Poster Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Mid-Atlantic Posts: 15,791	According to this he played poorly against Atlanta as well: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...y-team-week-2/

10-03-2012, 07:19 PM	#23
Bmore Manning Ring of Famer New to the Forum Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 2,829 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	Fontaine, thank you for the observations and the write up. It's ashame you can't share your thoughts and have a constructive talk on here, without being told this is a sky is falling thread. I posted a thread a few weeks ago called problems and solutions and offered a very similar analysis. Wolfe is not explosive off his first step, he doesn't have great technique yet.. But he is relentless! I understand the importance of having a run stopping DE on the strong side. This allows Miller to come off the edge in our 4-3 Under Look. He has the Red Bryant DE role from Seattle in their similar scheme. Understanding our scheme and player roles, I would rather see Malik play that DE role. He is stout against the run and more explosive as a pass rusher as evidence from pre season, Jackson seemed to be everywhere! I could understand Ayers in a rotation with Jackson to get him accommodated to the speed of the game and transition him to an NFL player. Wolfe would be better suited to play UT with an impressive Vickerson playing the NT. Wolfe's relentlessness would allow him to use his natural abilities from the interior, and his weaknesses would not be exposed as they are on the edge.

10-03-2012, 07:30 PM	#25
Bacchus I'm buying Infraspinatus Fascia Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 5,569 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Manning	I like this DL. I like Wolfe, Vickerson, Banan, Doonm and Ayers. There are a lot of lunch box guys here and they have done a great job stopping the run and getting pressures on the QB.