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Old 10-01-2012, 09:40 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Yeah.

Here's the deal on Leonhard returning; Fox knows he has Peyton Manning back there. They aren't going to get a lot of returns anyway playing half the games at altitude. They figure go with the safe choice will always make the right read on the punt (fair catch, no catch, etc.), always catch it and probably not get a lot of yardage and lean on your HOF QB. It would be more explosive to put a younger guy back there, sure. But he's also more likely mis-read the ball, or worse, turn it over in our own territory.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:46 AM   #52
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just catch the ball and let our offense work. If the time comes where we really do NEED an explosive return, put Bolden or Caldwell in
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:50 AM   #53
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give it time. I'm thinking Leonhard will get better as the season progresses.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:15 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
By saying that, you are inferring that that's all we're doing now. We're not. If it's returnable, it's being returned. Hence the 6 returns Bolden already has....which is WAAAAY ahead of our rate of returnable kicks last year. We're not simply kneeling each and every time. Almost all of our touchbacks are in the back of the EZ or through it. Harvin wouldn't make much difference there. And since he's unavailable, I'd ask for who you'd like to see back there that could do better.



Our leading guy last year had 8, not 17. Where are you getting 17 from?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...EAMS.FULL_NAME




I didn't say it "wasn't needed." What I said was, it should be the lowest priority on our list of positions that need improving. Why? Because they effect, on average, two plays per game. I can't think of a less important position right now. And unless one of the absolute top 2 or 3 kick returners in the league suddenly become available on the cheap, or they move the kickoff spot back to the 30, I don't see that changing any time soon.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...562/quan-cosby

Colby had 17 last year for the Broncos who was cut and not on your list there. Also the guy that is leading the NFL in return yards was a undrafted FA that was cut by the Vikings, resigned then traded to the Giants then cut and picked up by the Titans. Denver doesn't seem to even look for a game changer as a return man ever.

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Old 10-01-2012, 10:34 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
Denver doesn't seem to even look for a game changer as a return man ever.
They draft one or pick up at least one in FA pretty much every year. Just because they don't work out (mostly because of all the forced touchbacks and fair catches), doesn't mean they're not looking for them.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:46 AM   #56
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People love to overreact around here. Leonhard is averaging about 7 yards per return. That is not real good, but he has not fumbled (the most important thing) and he has only had 12 attempts. As long as he does not fumble I am fine. I think he'll improve, I'm not going to overeact like you guys and put Hillman back there or someone else who has never really done it before.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:51 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
They draft one or pick up at least one in FA pretty much every year. Just because they don't work out (mostly because of all the forced touchbacks and fair catches), doesn't mean they're not looking for them.
My point is Colby returned kicks and was good at it. Avgeraged 30 yards per kick return and had 17 returns in only 10 games for us last year. I think we would have more returns if the guy returning the ball had more ability like Sproles, Hester, Harvin, etc because they know they can get past the 20 and they take that chance 4 or 5 yards in the EZ.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:01 AM   #58
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My point is Colby returned kicks and was good at it. Avgeraged 30 yards per kick return
26.8 to be exact. Which is actually a fairly significant difference.

Cassius Vaughn averaged 30.0 yds per kick return.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:06 AM   #59
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26.8 to be exact. Which is actually a fairly significant difference.

Cassius Vaughn averaged 30.0 yds per kick return.
Starting at the 27 is better then starting at the 20 so there is that too.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:09 AM   #60
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Throw bolden back there. It's embarrassing they keep putting Leonard in. Fail after fail.
He's reliable in catching the ball and not fumbling. Not sure there's anyone else on the team that I'd trust right now to field punts. Seems like the rest of the team is a fumbling machine waiting to happen.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:14 AM   #61
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Starting at the 27 is better then starting at the 20 so there is that too.
Yes, but you do realize that a 27 yard return on a kick that goes 7 yards deep in the EZ means you start at the very same 20 yard line, don't you? And that's where the majority of kick returns in Denver would start from.

That and there's basically a zero percent chance of penalty or injury on a touchback.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:15 AM   #62
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I did an estimate of Jim Leonhards 40 times last week, he fielded a punt about 5 minutes to go in the 1st half, in 3 seconds with the ball he gained 13 yards in a situation where he had no defender close to him - that puts his 40 yards time at around 9 seconds. That makes him 3.5 seconds slower than Mount Cody and a solid 3 seconds slower than Rich Eisen.
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:31 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
People love to overreact around here. Leonhard is averaging about 7 yards per return. That is not real good, but he has not fumbled (the most important thing) and he has only had 12 attempts. As long as he does not fumble I am fine. I think he'll improve, I'm not going to overeact like you guys and put Hillman back there or someone else who has never really done it before.
Hillman is a bad idea unless they actually get him a lot of reps doing it in practice, but it really is hard to believe that we have no one on this team who could do a better job than Leonhard.
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:33 PM   #64
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I did an estimate of Jim Leonhards 40 times last week, he fielded a punt about 5 minutes to go in the 1st half, in 3 seconds with the ball he gained 13 yards in a situation where he had no defender close to him - that puts his 40 yards time at around 9 seconds. That makes him 3.5 seconds slower than Mount Cody and a solid 3 seconds slower than Rich Eisen.
There's something horribly off with your math it would seem. Overweight 50 year old men can run the 40 in less than 9 seconds.

Not to say Leonhard isn't painfully slow for a punt returner, but come on.
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:39 PM   #65
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The little known Quentin Griffin effect.
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:42 PM   #66
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You can never please everybody.

Leonhard hasn't dropped any... and he always gets positive yardage. Not much more you can ask for... I'd rather have that than have someone who COULD take it to the house, but is more likely to fumble.
This. Is he optimal? No. Deion Sanders would be great. Not available. Always catches the ball. Never moves backward. Always advances the ball 5-15 yards. I'd rather have a stud middle linebacker.
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:01 PM   #67
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This. Is he optimal? No. Deion Sanders would be great. Not available. Always catches the ball. Never moves backward. Always advances the ball 5-15 yards. I'd rather have a stud middle linebacker.
Exactly, Denver has Peyton Freaking Manning at QB. Don't fumble get positive yards and put Peyton on the field. If Denver got a stud returner he would average 12 yards per punt return instead of the 7 yards Leonhard gets When you have Peyton at QB the main thing is not to turn the ball over so he can put it in the end zone, 5 yards do not matter.
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:15 PM   #68
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The little known Quentin Griffin effect.
Did we cut KM?

I thought the Q effect was when we cut a bust of a RB and KFC picks them up thinking they will bust off 2k in their system?

I know they did it with Hillis already this year maybe I read the post out of context?
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:23 PM   #69
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This reminds me of when Shanny had Rueben Droughns returning kickoffs.
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:42 PM   #70
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People are overreacting at this... I would think you guys watched enough football in your life to see how easily it is for someone to **** up a punt return, all for the potential of what? a 10 maybe 20 yard return?

Here's an interesting fact -->

Broncos are 24th in the league in punt return yard average.

23rd? Cardinals.

Broncos average 7.4 while Cardinals average 7.9 per return.

We don't currently have a PR return specialist with the ability of the home run, but we have a specialist who will field the ball correctly 100% of the time and will guarantee the ball for the offense 100% of the time.

But no, we have arm chair GM's suggesting putting Hillman back there as if PR is some easy job you just put a speedster at.

They put Tony Carter (fastest player on team) back there in the pre-season and he ****ed up.

The just put in Decker against the Texans and he caught the ball with his FOOT ON THE ENDZONE LINE! He got tackled at like the 5. That's 15 yards lost.

We'll obviously address it in the off-season, but it's not nearly as serious as some of you are making it out to be.
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:47 PM   #71
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This reminds me of when Shanny had Rueben Droughns returning kickoffs.
Are you kidding me? Droughns was a monster returning kicks. He had a huge average. I remember he had a huge return against the Saints in 2004 I believe, maybe. He wasn't the fastest guy but he was a great kickoff returner. He would not get tripped up with arm tackles and he had great balance.

During his time in Denver Droughns averaged over 25 yards per kick off return.

Last edited by Bacchus; 10-01-2012 at 06:52 PM..
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:53 PM   #72
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People are overreacting at this... I would think you guys watched enough football in your life to see how easily it is for someone to **** up a punt return, all for the potential of what? a 10 maybe 20 yard return?

Here's an interesting fact -->

Broncos are 24th in the league in punt return yard average.

23rd? Cardinals.

Broncos average 7.4 while Cardinals average 7.9 per return.

We don't currently have a PR return specialist with the ability of the home run, but we have a specialist who will field the ball correctly 100% of the time and will guarantee the ball for the offense 100% of the time.

But no, we have arm chair GM's suggesting putting Hillman back there as if PR is some easy job you just put a speedster at.

They put Tony Carter (fastest player on team) back there in the pre-season and he ****ed up.

The just put in Decker against the Texans and he caught the ball with his FOOT ON THE ENDZONE LINE! He got tackled at like the 5. That's 15 yards lost.

We'll obviously address it in the off-season, but it's not nearly as serious as some of you are making it out to be.
Those are great points!!
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:53 PM   #73
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I agree.

Unless it's within a couple yards past the goalline, just take a knee.
This^...it's a guaranteed "start on the 20" vs. a potential start on the 11 or 12
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:09 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
Starting at the 27 is better then starting at the 20 so there is that too.
Well if I'm not mistaken, the NFL counts every yard on a return, so unless he's getting the ball at the goal line, you're not starting at the 27...chances are he's about 7 or 8 yards deep in end zone and only getting to the 20.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:13 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
Hillman is a bad idea unless they actually get him a lot of reps doing it in practice, but it really is hard to believe that we have no one on this team who could do a better job than Leonhard.
I know you clowns think that this coaching staff is a bunch of bungling idiots, but seriously...if we actually had anyone that could do a better job, do you seriously think they wouldn't have them returning punts?
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