US embassy in Libya in flames, ambassador dead

[DBruleU]

Originally Posted by houghtam

You are absolutely correct. Please pay attention to this timeline very closely now.

#1 - At 6:30 am local time on Tuesday, the US Embassy says they "condemn the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims and firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others."

#2 - Protests begin at 11 am local time on Tuesday.

#3 - At 6:30 pm local time on Tuesday, the US Embassy re-tweets "This morning's condemnation (issued before our protests began) still stands. As does our condemnation of unjustified breach of the Embassy."

#4 - At 9:30 pm, Hillary Clinton releases a statement condemning the attack, http://www.nationaljournal.com/natio...libya-20120912

#5 - At 10:15, Romney releases a statement, “I’m outraged by the attacks on American diplomatic missions in Libya and Egypt and by the death of an American consulate worker in Benghazi. It’s disgraceful that the Obama Administration’s first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.”

Romney's statement is false. IF you are holding to the notion that the embassy represents the Obama administration and what they say is just like if he said it, their first response was to denounce attacks on other people's religion (like many presidents, including Bush just 6 years ago)...BEFORE the protests even started. Their second response was to stand by their statement (denouncing attacks on other people's religion) AND to say that it was wrong for the embassy to be attacked.

Romney doesn't have one leg to stand on in this issue. He's getting blasted by all sides, and rightly so. What he did was stupid, rash, irrational, and a mere shadow of the foreign policy troubles he would cause. Yes, cause.

How you can give the guy who insulted Great Britain and made a farce out of his visit to Israel the benefit of the doubt on such an idiotic and careless statement is beyond me.

Insulted GB? Ok...I understand your train of thought now. I suppose pointing out the obvious is now insulting these days. His Israel trip seemed to be pretty successful...as well as his visit to Poland. But whatever you say. Having lived in Manchester, ENG for a year I can tell you that the Brits truly do take offense to anything you say. They are sensitive people.

So Romney would cause FP troubles based on what he said....but Obama has actually caused FP troubles by what he has done, or lack there of.

If in fact we are going by the very first statement issued on this whole thing in Cairo, then what Romney said is correct. It wasn't a condemnation...it was an apology. Maybe the administration and the State Department need to reign in whatever intern them have at the helm there in Cairo...because their FIRST response which he was referring to was a joke.

When you're POTUS, what's said by your State Department and Embassy is on you.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by DBruleU

Insulted GB? Ok...I understand your train of thought now. I suppose pointing out the obvious is now insulting these days. His Israel trip seemed to be pretty successful...as well as his visit to Poland. But whatever you say. Having lived in Manchester, ENG for a year I can tell you that the Brits truly do take offense to anything you say. They are sensitive people.

So Romney would cause FP troubles based on what he said....but Obama has actually caused FP troubles by what he has done, or lack there of.

If in fact we are going by the very first statement issued on this whole thing in Cairo, then what Romney said is correct. It wasn't a condemnation...it was an apology. Maybe the administration and the State Department need to reign in whatever intern them have at the helm there in Cairo...because their FIRST response which he was referring to was a joke.

When you're POTUS, what's said by your State Department and Embassy is on you.

Gotcha. Good to know that Romney is the only one who is correct on this, and the people on the left and right who are criticizing him are wrong.

[DBruleU]

Originally Posted by houghtam

Gotcha. Good to know that Romney is the only one who is correct on this, and the people on the left and right who are criticizing him are wrong.

Vice versa!

[TonyR]

"This is the time for us as a nation and a people to stand united,' - Ronald Reagan, Republican candidate, after president Carter's botched mission to save US hostages.

"I unequivocally support the president of the United States -- no ifs, ands or buts -- and it certainly is not a time to try to go one-up politically. He made a difficult, courageous decision," - George H.W. Bush, a candidate at the same time.

And people tell me the GOP hasn't changed.

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast....09/quotes.html

[houghtam]

"People have a constitutional right to burn a Koran if they want to, but doing so is insensitive and an unnecessary provocation."

- Sarah Palin

"[Burning the Koran] could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort," Gen. Petraeus said in an interview. "It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems. Not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community."

- Gen. David Petraeus

Regarding the cartoons portraying Mohammed with a bomb under his turban:

"We find them offensive, and we certainly understand why Muslims would find these images offensive...anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images...as anti-Christian imagesm or any other religious belief."

- Bush Administration Official Statement

"A central tenet of the administration's foreign policy is the promotion of democracy and human rights, including free speech, in countries where they are lacking. But a core mission of its public diplomacy is to emphasize respect for Islam in the wake of the wars in Iraw and Afghanistan."

- New York Times article in support of Bush's statements

"We condemn the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims and firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others."

- Tweet from the US Embassy in Libya, hours before the protests even started

Yeah, Romney was correct.

[bombay]

So when Romney accuses the President of actually sympathizing with extremists who murdered US diplomats that's not incendiary?

Romney took a tweet by a staffer from the Cairo embasssy, made without clearance, 6 hours before the attacks began, and then twisted it to say that [1] it was a response to the attacks and [2] it meant the President agreed with foreignors who killed US citizens. To be fair, since Romney rushed down to smirk his way through a news conference before he knew the full extent of what was happening, he did not that Americans had been killed when he initially made the statement. However, once he learned, he stuck to his guns, so to speak, and renewed his -- Obama is not a true American -- criticism. So basically he lied and accused the President of being a traitor to his country.

I completely understand when if you say that Romney, himself, didn't come out and say something incendiary. It's just as untethered from reality as Romney and his neocon foreign advisors, who have been dreadfully wrong on every foreign matter for the last 12 years.

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

Can we just turn the Islamic world into trinitite and call it a day? These a-holes have been doing this to people for 1,400 years. It's time to call a spade a spade. Obama can shove his "don't demean a person's religion" crap. Stating fact is not demeaning anyone; it's stating fact.

Islam is ****.

agree 100% there is btw no such thing at least over in that part of the world moderate Islam oh wait there is moderate is where they beat you to a pulp before they kill you for drawing a picture of Mohammad speaking of mo

[DBruleU]

Originally Posted by houghtam

Regarding the cartoons portraying Mohammed with a bomb under his turban:So?











Yeah, Romney was correct.

So? I agree...it isn't necessary to provoke Muslims. Did Romney say otherwise?

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by DAN_BRONCO_FAN

agree 100% there is btw no such thing at least over in that part of the world moderate Islam oh wait there is moderate is where they beat you to a pulp before they kill you for drawing a picture of Mohammad speaking of mo

Do you feel better now, you insignificant child?

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by DBruleU

So? I agree...it isn't necessary to provoke Muslims. Did Romney say otherwise?

Yes. He said that the embassy was apologizing when they were simply saying exactly the same thing that Bush, Petraeus and Palin said.

If you can't see the similarity between what they said and "We condemn the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims and firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others," then you are a hopeless partisan with a limited view of the real world.

That is all I will say to you on the subject.

[ant1999e]

Originally Posted by houghtam

Here's a pretty good writeup concerning the man who allegedly produced the film. Looks like he's an Egyptian (Coptic) Christian with a history of aliases (including on Nicola Bacily) and bank fraud. He was also on probation and ordered not to use computers or the internet.

Do people still believe this is a free speech issue?

http://news.yahoo.com/california-man...223333645.html

It wasn't a free speech issue, it was a 9-11 anniversary attack issue.

[DenverBrit]

Originally Posted by DBruleU

So Obama now admits that we have lost Egypt as an ally. He admits on Telemundo interview that we can no longer consider Egypt a friend.

At this rate, we will have no allies left in the world when Obama leaves office. This guy is great at foreign policy.

Why do you find it necessary to lie when quoting others?? Weren't you one who complained about putting the Muslim Brotherhood in office??

"I don't think we would consider them an ally, but we don't consider them an enemy. They are a new government that is trying to find its way," Mr Obama said in a television interview with Spanish-language network Telemundo.

Jonathan Marcus BBC Diplomatic Correspondent

President Obama's comments serve political purposes at home and abroad. A distancing of Washington from the new order in Egypt will not upset the country's new president whose own political background is in the Muslim Brotherhood camp - highly sceptical of US goals in the region.

Amidst riots outside the US embassy in Cairo, Mr Obama is also signalling, as Emile Hokayem, Senior Fellow for Regional Security at the IISS puts it, that "the US cannot be taken for granted. He is looking for leverage over Egypt, putting the responsibility for moving Egypt forward, firmly on Egypt's own shoulders".

At home, amidst the strident debate of the US presidential election campaign, Mr Obama loses no friends by distancing himself from the Egyptian authorities. There is a pervading sense of fatigue in the US with the Middle East and a growing public feeling that "the Arab world" is somehow ungrateful for US support during the upheavals of the Arab Spring.

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

oh dear god im gonna die for posting that but remember islam is the religion of pieces when they blow you up

[DBruleU]

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

Why do you find it necessary to lie when quoting others?? Weren't you one who complained about putting the Muslim Brotherhood in office??

I didn't lie...what I said was accurate. Egypt is no longer an Ally. At the same time...Israel, another strong ally like Egypt used to be is being pushed to the side by Obama. Hence, at this rate, we will have no allies left when this guy leaves office.

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Originally Posted by houghtam

Do you feel better now, you insignificant child?

no because now the religion of pieces will kill me
odd if i did christ piss so called art the us gov will pay me but for the love of god do not say anything bad about islam or mohammad other wise they all will go bat shat insane and burn down embassies .
hey did you hear the news about the Catholics Baptist Methodist any other christian sect rioting looting any foreign embassies or Spain Portugal or any other christian catholic majority . going ape shat burning any foreign embassies down

[DenverBrit]

Originally Posted by DBruleU

I didn't lie...what I said was accurate. Egypt is no longer an Ally. At the same time...Israel, another strong ally like Egypt used to be is being pushed to the side by Obama. Hence, at this rate, we will have no allies left when this guy leaves office.

You're doing it again. Here's what you claim Obama said:

we can no longer consider Egypt a friend.

Big difference.

But in light of the Egyptian government's Muslim Brotherhood connection, a public statement that makes sense.

Why do you think it such a diplomatic blunder?

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

so let me get this straight its ok to insult Christians and Hindus or any other religion but islam is off limits why is that anyone want to explain why islam is soo special.
is it because they act like Americanized bees aka killer bees and attack at the slightest provocation or noise ?

[DenverBrit]

Originally Posted by DAN_BRONCO_FAN

no because now the religion of pieces will kill me
odd if i did christ piss so called art the us gov will pay me but for the love of god do not say anything bad about islam or mohammad other wise they all will go bat shat insane and burn down embassies .
hey did you hear the news about the Catholics Baptist Methodist any other christian sect rioting looting any foreign embassies or Spain Portugal or any other christian catholic majority . going ape shat burning any foreign embassies down

Do you really want to play the stupid game of which religion is more intolerant?
All religions have fundamentalists who do not represent everyone.

[DBruleU]

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

You're doing it again. Here's what you claim Obama said:

Big difference.

But in light of the Egyptian government's Muslim Brotherhood connection, a public statement that makes sense.

Why do you think it such a diplomatic blunder?

Ally = Friend. You can look it up in the dictionary if you want to.

The blunder was unfortunately the Egyptians elected a group that does not view us favorably in the least. The Arab Spring hasn't ended the way Obama wanted it to.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by DAN_BRONCO_FAN

hey did you hear the news about the Catholics Baptist Methodist any other christian sect rioting looting any foreign embassies or Spain Portugal or any other christian catholic majority . going ape shat burning any foreign embassies down

No, but I did hear the news about Christian Fundamentalists saying gay people should be rounded up and allowed to die. And the news about the Catholics doing everything in their power to cover up the child abuse perpetrated by their priests.

And I lived through the 2000-2008 Christian Fundamentalist takeover-of-the-government-turned-chorus-of-Onward-Christian-Soldiers which cost us thousands of lives and millions of dollars.

And so did you.

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

Do you really want to play the stupid game of which religion is more intolerant?
All religions have fundamentalists who do not represent everyone.

so did westbro fly planes into wtc diud westbro burn down any embassies .
so far all i see is westbro protesting distastefully and making people want to deck them one but no terrorist attacks in the name of Jesus or any christian god.
or did i miss the part where christians hijacked a few planes and flew them into twin towers pentagon and one crashed into the ground in pa.
and i missed the part i guess where the pope called for attacks on the infidels non Christians or even pat " i need money for my new ministry " Robertson
or Jim" i banged a prostitute built a christian themed water park " Baker
dont get me going on tv evangelist whome im shure jesus isnt very fond of seeing jesus preached for free never asked for money to build himself a mansion with a swimming pool but im going off topic.
bottom line is there is no wide spread acts of violence in the name of god or Jesus hell not even the Americanized Islamic people here aint that bat shat crazy, most likely if they tried or anyone law enforcement ie FBI state local police would snuff it out or local citizens would add lead to their heads

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

again in short westbro disgusting pos but they dont act violent
islam the ones in Pakistan Afghanistan Egypt Syria all other Islamic dominated countries who aint under the control of a strong government go well ape shat you seen them do it right . or are you blind
i say lets take away their foreign aid to all of em

[DenverBrit]

Originally Posted by DAN_BRONCO_FAN

so did westbro fly planes into wtc diud westbro burn down any embassies .
so far all i see is westbro protesting distastefully and making people want to deck them one but no terrorist attacks in the name of Jesus or any christian god.
or did i miss the part where christians hijacked a few planes and flew them into twin towers pentagon and one crashed into the ground in pa.
and i missed the part i guess where the pope called for attacks on the infidels non Christians or even pat " i need money for my new ministry " Robertson
or Jim" i banged a prostitute built a christian themed water park " Baker
dont get me going on tv evangelist whome im shure jesus isnt very fond of seeing jesus preached for free never asked for money to build himself a mansion with a swimming pool but im going off topic.
bottom line is there is no wide spread acts of violence in the name of god or Jesus hell not even the Americanized Islamic people here aint that bat shat crazy, most likely if they tried or anyone law enforcement ie FBI state local police would snuff it out or local citizens would add lead to their heads

Apparently you did.

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Originally Posted by houghtam

No, but I did hear the news about Christian Fundamentalists saying gay people should be rounded up and allowed to die. And the news about the Catholics doing everything in their power to cover up the child abuse perpetrated by their priests.

And I lived through the 2000-2008 Christian Fundamentalist takeover-of-the-government-turned-chorus-of-Onward-Christian-Soldiers which cost us thousands of lives and millions of dollars.

And so did you.

did it happen would we Americans let it happen i think not again islam killed how many now vs christians post force the savages to accept christ or die burn the witch superstitious period that swept the world and the which country ie the big 3 England France Spain can take the most land from indigenous people contest or the viking lets rape pillage the village period too

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

Apparently you did.

omg i love monty python but if it was making fun of oh say islam they would be beheaded
and why cant south park make fun of Mohammad yet everyone else is fair game
in other words why is their fear of Islam IN THE 21ST CENTURY
again if you drew a pic of Jesus and went to the vatican would you be stoned to death?