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Old 08-23-2012, 02:32 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
You can say this about every position, in theory, until you look at the Broncos track record. Once again, if it's so easy to do and such a gimme, why haven't we done it since Portis?
I dont know why you keep harping on what Shanahan and McDaniels did in the draft. Both were crappy at the draft and should by no means be used as a measuring stick of drafting success.They missed on a lot more than RB.

What they did has no impact at all on what this FO can do.

The MAJORITY of the best RBs in the league(Rice, McCoy, Foster, The almight MJD, Forte, Charles) came after the first

They are not worth a first anymore in a league that just saw like 3 guys pass for over 5000 yards
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:43 PM   #352
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In the post you quoted I pointed out that they gave up a 2nd round pick for him.

MJD is only 27. He turned 27 in March, so that is a legit 27, not 27 but turning 28 mid-season.

He had part time back duties for the first three seasons of his career. Since becoming an every down back he's been one of the elite backs in the league. Dude is a STEAL for a 1st round pick.

He's got at least three more seasons of peak productivity and is a fantastic system fit. You put MJD on this team, let McGahee stay around as the short yardage #2, and have Hillman start doing work as a return man and secondary scat back behind MJD.

Not only would he make this a top 5 offense from basically day one, getting him would also add a superstar bridge for when Manning hangs it up, while also putting a role model in-house for Hillman to learn from.
So a second round pick for Dillon? my bad, I missed that. So yah, I'm still gonna say a second round pick for MJD is about all I'd be willing to trade. MJD may only be 27 but he's played in the NFL for 6 full seasons and you are speculating that he will be just as healthy and productive in the future.

And I'm saying that's a big risk to assume. That's all I'm saying. Past production does not necessarily guarantee future production, especially at the RB position where a RB can fall off in production almost immediately, much like Portis did. Again, I like MJD and would love for the Broncos to have him but I would not trade a first round pick for him, let alone a first round pick plus anything else.

Also, the Jags are going to demand way more than the Broncos should part with in order to get MJD.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:52 PM   #353
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Why is this so hard for people to understand?

McGahee is another year older. With his upright running style and physicality it's not a matter of if he gets hurt, but when and how badly. After McGahee you have Hillman who I think has a lot of potential, but are they really going to trust him in pass protection? So that leaves Moreno, a guy that was supposed to be a feature back, but can't even solidify the no. 2 spot and on top of that has a hard time carrying the ball more than a couple of times during a series without getting dinged up. After that you have Lance Ball who makes Sammy Winder look as elusive as Barry Sanders and some Omon guy who's been in like four different camps, but never stuck with a team.
ok but the Broncos do have the ability to pick up RBs via FA too, right? Or draft another RB in the 2nd-3rd round to compliment Hillman, right?

Also, and I'll say this again, there will be some RBs cut that the Broncos can pick up here in the next few weeks. Sure, they won't be as good as MJD but the might be extremely valuable as solid depth should MacGahee go down or Hillman get injured.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:46 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by Br0nc0Buster View Post
In 3 years he will be 30 years old with over 2200 carries on his legs and a sketchy knee
(And this is a conservative estimate that included averages from his first 3 years in the league. If he is gonna get workhorse carries like the past 3 years his carries could be over 2400)

McGahee by comparison is almost 31 and has less than 1800 carries, and no knee concerns

Based on the longevity of the position and his knee I see nothing to suggest he will sustain for more than a few years (3)
And the upgrade from McGahee to MJD for a few years is not worth a 1st

You can find stud RBs in the 2nd round anyways, no need to waste a 1st for them
HA HA HA HA yeah right.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:48 PM   #355
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ok but the Broncos do have the ability to pick up RBs via FA too, right? Or draft another RB in the 2nd-3rd round to compliment Hillman, right?

Also, and I'll say this again, there will be some RBs cut that the Broncos can pick up here in the next few weeks. Sure, they won't be as good as MJD but the might be extremely valuable as solid depth should MacGahee go down or Hillman get injured.
So some turds might be cut to go with the other turds we already have after Magahee! (Hillman excluded)
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:59 PM   #356
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So some turds might be cut to go with the other turds we already have after Magahee! (Hillman excluded)
I know it's not exciting stuff but a team like Philly will probably let one of their RBs go and they are real deep at RB. Here's their current RB roster:

Bryce Brown, rookie out of Kansas State (looked good in preseason, is fast).
Dion Lewis out of Pittsburgh University
LeSean McCoy
Chris Polk, rookie out of Washington (they gonna move him to FB??)

They will probably cut Brown and Lewis and try to move Brown to the practice squad and I'd love it if the Broncos pick up Brown.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:00 PM   #357
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HA HA HA HA yeah right.
You are confusing his college career with his pro career

His knee has not given him issues in the NFL
Jones Drew had surgery for a bone on bone condition

His knee should worry people, not McGahees
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:07 PM   #358
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Since people are comparing Moreno and MJD I thought I would bring up one of my old post. I just added MJD stats.

What I dont like about Moreno besides the injuries is his ability to not break long runs.

Moreno (36)longest run in 466 carries
MJD beat Morenos longest run in his first 68 carries but I could also say Selvin Young beat Moreno in 5 carries

............................Carries Longest run

Floyd Little......(inside)642........48,55,80

Mike Anderson............193........80
.................................230........47
.................................356........62

Terrel Davis...............211..........60
................................299......... 65
................................368......... 71

Olandis Gary...............76..........60
.................................229........71
.................................258........45

Tatum Bell.................120........55
.................................133.......68
.................................155........67

Gaston Green.............153.........43
.................................213.........63
.................................296.........60
.................................460.........67

Clinton Portis..............192.........43
.................................237.........51
.................................273.........59
.................................309.........58
.................................342.........65
.................................469.........59
..................................525........59

Andre Hall...................15..........62

Willis McGahee............123.........60

Ron Dayne..................20..........55

Sammy Winder...........172........52
.................................217........37

Rueben Droughns.......184..........51

Selvin Young.................5..........40
..................................100........50
..................................155........49

Rod Smith..................12.........37
.................................18.........50

Mike Bell......................10.........36
....................................53........48
...................................157......46

Reggie Rivers...............17.........48

Vaughn Hebron..........17..........47
.................................86.........46

Quentin Griffin...........117........47

Bobby Humphrey........68.........40

Tim Tebow..................20........40

MJD.........................68.........40
................................102.....48
.................................142.....74
..................................208....52
...................................220...57
Should I go on?

K. Moreno.............429........36


L.Ball.........................62..........34
Aaron Craver (fb).......132.......28
Glyn Milburn..............110........26
Jeremiah Johnson..........6..........25
Brian Griese................129........24
Rod Bernstine............240........24
P.J. Pope..................17..........24
Leonard Russell..........190........22
Michael Pittman..........76.........20
Lance Ball..................41.........19
Peyton Hillis(fb)...........81........19
Ryan Torain.................15........19
Cecil Sapp..................16........18
Derek Loville...............285........17
Steven Sewell............104.........16
Howard Griffith (fb)......13..........16
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:08 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
ok but the Broncos do have the ability to pick up RBs via FA too, right? Or draft another RB in the 2nd-3rd round to compliment Hillman, right?

Also, and I'll say this again, there will be some RBs cut that the Broncos can pick up here in the next few weeks. Sure, they won't be as good as MJD but the might be extremely valuable as solid depth should MacGahee go down or Hillman get injured.
And ultimately, that's what's going to happen. This is basically a 15 page much ado about nothing. The Broncos should do everything they can to peel off a castaway back from a team like the Saints or Seachickens and hope that Ronnie Hillman can get some reps in the final couple of preseason games.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:11 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by Br0nc0Buster View Post
You are confusing his college career with his pro career

His knee has not given him issues in the NFL
Jones Drew had surgery for a bone on bone condition

His knee should worry people, not McGahees
Willis McGahee to have knee surgery

Posted by Anthony Stalter (08/11/2008 @ 11:16 am)


According to the Carroll County Times, Baltimore Ravens’ running back Willis McGahee will undergo arthroscopic surgery to his left knee as soon as Monday.


McGahee’s knee has been bothering him since shortly after reporting to training camp in Westminster, and he hasn’t been practicing lately. This is regarded as a clean-up medical procedure.

Because it generally takes two weeks to a month to recover from a knee scope, McGahee could possibly return for the Sept. 7 season-opener against the Cincinnati Bengals.

Yet another hit to the Ravens offense. McGahee was incredibly productive last year (his first year in Baltimore) and was expected to have a huge role in the offense again this season. Given the uncertainly at quarterback (who’s the starter, Kyle Boller or Troy Smith?) and the retirement of Pro Bowl left tackle Jonathan Ogden, the Ravens offense faces a ton of questions.

Even if McGahee plays in the opener, he likely won’t be 100%. He might not even be 100% until the midway point in the season, that is, if he doesn’t suffer any setbacks when he does return.

http://www.scoresreport.com/2008/08/...-knee-surgery/

http://denver.sbnation.com/denver-br...ry-update-knee

I'm sure his knee is just great.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:13 PM   #361
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A lot of different opinions here, on a player that isn't going anywhere.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:49 PM   #362
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Last 10 years?
I dont really remember before 2003 I think that was the year we took Foster
Anways the answer is Cutler and Clady

But poor drafting from previous FOs is not an excuse to spend a first on a RB where best case scenario you get 3 good years out of

You dont need a top RB, nor do you even need a top running game anymore

Off the top of my head here are some previous SB RB starters
Ahmand Bradshaw
Brandon Jacobs
James Jones
Pierre Thomas
Willie Parker
OLD Jerome Bettis
Joseph Addai
OLD Corey Dillon
Antwan Smith
Warrick Dunn

Not really a whose who of elite players
Pass on using high draft picks on RBs
Teams are going to dual back rotations and running really isnt that important anymore

Add in the fact MJD has a lot of tread on those tires and his knee is a ticking time bomb

I would trade a 3rd for him
Prolly not a 2nd
Fore sure not a 1st
MJD does not have much tread on his tires as you say. His first 3-4 years he was the backup RB and he is 3 years younger than McGhee. There is not one RB on that list that is as good as MJD. And none of those SB teams had a 37 year-old QB with neck/arm issues. When the weather gets colder there is nothing Manning will want to do more than hand that football off.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:58 PM   #363
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A lot of different opinions here, on a player that isn't going anywhere.
Yeah, but it's fun!!
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:01 PM   #364
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Trade a 1st and whatever they want, hell with it add Knowson and Willis to. Will be fine with MJD and Xavier.O
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:09 PM   #365
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MJD does not have much tread on his tires as you say. His first 3-4 years he was the backup RB and he is 3 years younger than McGhee. There is not one RB on that list that is as good as MJD. And none of those SB teams had a 37 year-old QB with neck/arm issues. When the weather gets colder there is nothing Manning will want to do more than hand that football off.
The whole reason I brought up Mcgahee is that the sentiment regarding Willis seems to be that people are waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Any minute now apparently his age is going to catch up with him

I dont see how this does not get applied to MJD
When he hits 30 he is going to have had a significantly higher amount of touches than McGahee, and his knee is not going to get better
Yet somehow people act like he is going to be going strong until he is 33

And you point about none of those SB backs being as good as MJD kinda is my point as well
You dont need a top flight RB, it is not imperative that you have one
We already have a guy on our roster that is better than all those guys save maybe Warrick Dunn
McGahee made the pro bowl last year, I think he is still a good player

I do not think the upgrade from McGahee to MJD is worth a 1st because I do not see MJD being elite longer than 3 years or so

Last thing I want us to do is go all Redskins model and trade our picks away for aging players
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:11 PM   #366
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I agree with Vic Lombardi's assessment. It's Manning's team, so we'll be passing a lot more than last year. Our stable of backs is good enough, and adding a superstar back could create more of an issue divying up the load between the pass and the run.
Yeah well, it was Mannings team when he had Edgerin James as well. You know back when he wasn't 37 with arm concerns.
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:16 PM   #367
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The whole reason I brought up Mcgahee is that the sentiment regarding Willis seems to be that people are waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Any minute now apparently his age is going to catch up with him

I dont see how this does not get applied to MJD
When he hits 30 he is going to have had a significantly higher amount of touches than McGahee, and his knee is not going to get better
Yet somehow people act like he is going to be going strong until he is 33

And you point about none of those SB backs being as good as MJD kinda is my point as well
You dont need a top flight RB, it is not imperative that you have one
We already have a guy on our roster that is better than all those guys save maybe Warrick Dunn
McGahee made the pro bowl last year, I think he is still a good player

I do not think the upgrade from McGahee to MJD is worth a 1st because I do not see MJD being elite longer than 3 years or so

Last thing I want us to do is go all Redskins model and trade our picks away for aging players
I can understand that and agree with it. In no way would I want to get MJD and get rid of McGhee. I think they would be a tremendous combo together and they would extend each others career as well as Mannings.
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:20 PM   #368
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Willis McGahee to have knee surgery

Posted by Anthony Stalter (08/11/2008 @ 11:16 am)


According to the Carroll County Times, Baltimore Ravens’ running back Willis McGahee will undergo arthroscopic surgery to his left knee as soon as Monday.


McGahee’s knee has been bothering him since shortly after reporting to training camp in Westminster, and he hasn’t been practicing lately. This is regarded as a clean-up medical procedure.

Because it generally takes two weeks to a month to recover from a knee scope, McGahee could possibly return for the Sept. 7 season-opener against the Cincinnati Bengals.

Yet another hit to the Ravens offense. McGahee was incredibly productive last year (his first year in Baltimore) and was expected to have a huge role in the offense again this season. Given the uncertainly at quarterback (who’s the starter, Kyle Boller or Troy Smith?) and the retirement of Pro Bowl left tackle Jonathan Ogden, the Ravens offense faces a ton of questions.

Even if McGahee plays in the opener, he likely won’t be 100%. He might not even be 100% until the midway point in the season, that is, if he doesn’t suffer any setbacks when he does return.

http://www.scoresreport.com/2008/08/...-knee-surgery/

http://denver.sbnation.com/denver-br...ry-update-knee

I'm sure his knee is just great.
That was 4 years ago
Jones Drew has surgery last year for bone on bone
I dont trust that really get better
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:22 PM   #369
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I wanted this thread to be about Denver being "ALL In" "No Plan B" I do not know what it will take to get MJD maybe it will only be a 2nd. Denver needs to look into this. Who is Denver going to draft next year that is going to help Manning more than MJD? and that draft pick NEXT year is not helping Denver this year. MJD is in his prime, he is the best RB in the NFL and he is a quality guy who I'm sure would love a chance at a SB.

It does not look like this is going to happen and for the life of me I cannot imagine why Denver is not even looking to see what the Jags want. Maybe Del Rio knows something.

What is Denver going to do with a mid 20 draft choice that is going to help them win Peyton a SB in the next 2-3 years?

Is it all about winning now or not?
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:26 PM   #370
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That was 4 years ago
Jones Drew has surgery last year for bone on bone
I dont trust that really get better
Knee work is knee work. Seems he gas surgery about every 4 year's.
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:53 PM   #371
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No thank you! We have Magahee. Check.

Now, if the 49ers want to part with Willis for a first...hell yea!
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:12 PM   #372
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That's dishonest of you.

I'm not counting the two years he missed at least 4 games and you are. One of which he had only 7 fewer carries than last year. The other 23. His rushing attempts per game plummeted under McD last year.
Well you never said that. You said 1000 yd rushers go to MCD to die and I pointed out he had 1100 plus yards last year. You said it was the least carry's he has had since 2005 which is not true. Nothing about injuries or whatever.

In other news tell me how Slowshon has been better than Beanie Wells?

Last edited by DENVERDUI55; 08-23-2012 at 07:29 PM..
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:49 PM   #373
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I do not think the upgrade from McGahee to MJD is worth a 1st because I do not see MJD being elite longer than 3 years or so
I proposed Denver to sign MJD to a 4 year deal. This is not a long term proposition this is to win a SB before Manning leaves. If MJD is elite for three more years than you do this deal and go after that SB ring.

I thought everyone here agrees that if you do not win the SB than the season was a failure, well then Denver needs to try to win the SB this year, next year and the year after. Whatever it takes!
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:04 PM   #374
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I proposed Denver to sign MJD to a 4 year deal. This is not a long term proposition this is to win a SB before Manning leaves. If MJD is elite for three more years than you do this deal and go after that SB ring.

I thought everyone here agrees that if you do not win the SB than the season was a failure, well then Denver needs to try to win the SB this year, next year and the year after. Whatever it takes!
This season wont be a failure if Manning doesnt go to or win the superbowl. It will be if he doesnt reach the big game before he retires, imo.

Im not sure if the Broncos can afford Mojo without constaining themselves finacially for possibly many years. If theres enough cap space and Mojos contract doesnt cripple the Broncos, then he would be an excellent pickup. But I doubt the Broncos are seriously considering him because he will demand more than the Broncos are willing to pay for at an already deep, talented position.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:14 PM   #375
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I wanted this thread to be about Denver being "ALL In" "No Plan B" I do not know what it will take to get MJD maybe it will only be a 2nd. Denver needs to look into this. Who is Denver going to draft next year that is going to help Manning more than MJD? and that draft pick NEXT year is not helping Denver this year. MJD is in his prime, he is the best RB in the NFL and he is a quality guy who I'm sure would love a chance at a SB.

It does not look like this is going to happen and for the life of me I cannot imagine why Denver is not even looking to see what the Jags want. Maybe Del Rio knows something.

What is Denver going to do with a mid 20 draft choice that is going to help them win Peyton a SB in the next 2-3 years?

Is it all about winning now or not?
I agree with your premise that it could be a great move but the financial and operational reality of it is suspect. There are so many "if's" that it's almost a pipe dream. I'm sure Elway feels the same way "ideally" but do we have the cash and is he really interested. It would be nice to be a fly on the wall.
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