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Old 08-23-2012, 08:52 AM   #251
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I understand the arguement for Moreno. But yards after and good stats(not seeing it) are all wiped out by the one common denominator. Injury. I can GUARANTEE he will be hurt and out in due time. It happens EVERY year. This last injury was his worst. He breaks down on a consistent basis. That trait does not work for RB. What's the point of him beating out ball and Hillman when both will have to replace him when it counts the most?
What you talking about? Before last year he had missed 3 games total. Yes he gets nicked up a lot. But that happens to almost all RBs... specially one that got hit on a consistent basis behind the line of scrimmage his first 3 years. I am excited to see what he can do in this system.

People speaking about KM being a bust know squat! His production may not merit a top 12 pick, but he has produced. Just look at his overall yardage until last year. I would still take him over Ball or Johnson everyday of the week!!!
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:53 AM   #252
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So... Are people arguing that Denver has no need for MJD because of the talent Denver has currently at RB?
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:56 AM   #253
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So... Are people arguing that Denver has no need for MJD because of the talent Denver has currently at RB?
Nope... we don't need MJD because he would be cost prohibitive. We are good enough at RB that we don't need to take a huge risk on a 7 year vet. (No matter how good he is). We would need to trade picks, player(s) and sign him to a huge extension.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:05 AM   #254
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MJD wasn't even a starter until his 4th season. Moreno has played 3 so far. Hell if it wasn't for the ACL tear, Moreno and MJD's first few seasons were looking pretty similar. Is it just Bronco players that are scrubs if they aren't probowlers in their first couple seasons?
Except they dont!

Anyone watching knew that MJD was a very good back. I can't say the same for Moreno nor do I want to waste a year trying to find out. He isn't a scrub back till you compare him to MJD then it isn't even worth discussing. A RB shouldn't take 4 stinking seasons to develop man. Go one and tell me how it took MJD 4 years to break a 1000 yards. The MJD had 34 rushing TDs to Moreno's 12. YPC was higher as well as receptions and yards recieving. Then look at the longest runs for them. Moreno's career long was 36 yards dude! Come on man!!!
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:07 AM   #255
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What you talking about? Before last year he had missed 3 games total. Yes he gets nicked up a lot. But that happens to almost all RBs... specially one that got hit on a consistent basis behind the line of scrimmage his first 3 years. I am excited to see what he can do in this system.

People speaking about KM being a bust know squat! His production may not merit a top 12 pick, but he has produced. Just look at his overall yardage until last year. I would still take him over Ball or Johnson everyday of the week!!!
Signed, Morenos hamstring. I'm sorry but how many 100 yard games has he had for a 12th pick in the draft? He's not entirely a busy yet but hes on his way.

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Old 08-23-2012, 09:11 AM   #256
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Nope... we don't need MJD because he would be cost prohibitive. We are good enough at RB that we don't need to take a huge risk on a 7 year vet. (No matter how good he is). We would need to trade picks, player(s) and sign him to a huge extension.
Regarding the draft picks being cost-prohibitive, I found this pretty interesting today:

It's really hard to overstate just how valuable first-round draft picks are in the NFL. Using that classic draft value chart, Washington gave St. Louis more value for the rights to draft Robert Griffin III than the Giants gave San Diego for Eli Manning, or the Falcons gave San Diego for Michael Vick. And those picks are worth even more now than they were in 2001 or 2004 because of the new slot-controlled salaries for first-round picks. There's no way Griffin can live up to the hype without making double-digit Pro Bowls. An essay by the Harvard Sports Analysis Collective suggested that for the Redskins to get equivalent value for the picks they gave up, Griffin will need a career as productive as Tom Brady's.

http://deadspin.com/5936266?utm_camp...ium=socialflow
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:11 AM   #257
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Let me preface this by saying I was an advocate of drafting Moreno at 12 in 2009. His highlight tape indicated that he was dynamic in space, wasn't afraid to run between the tackles and always finished his runs with authority. He also was an above average pass catching back and blocker for his size. I envisioned him as being in the mold of Marshall Faulk or LT, just with less top end speed. That being said, for whatever reason those abilities didn't translate to the NFL. I don't know if it's injuries, or peds, or both, but it's like he's an entirely different player than he was at Georgia. I really don't need to cherry pick stats, or compare him to back x or back y in his draft class, I just watch how he's run his entire career here.

Whenever he catches an edge, or there is a hole that breaks outside, he simply doesn't have the explosiveness to exploit the play. Sure, he might get 4 yards or 5 yards, but with that same hole, a Mike Anderson, or even an Orlandus Gary would have broken off 15, 20 yards. He's developed some really bad habits between the tackles too. He dances way too much. I can't stand another year of watching him do his Fred Flinstone bowling impersonation as he gets tackled after a one-yard gain. At this point he's the antithesis of the type of one cut and go back that we need.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:13 AM   #258
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Nope... we don't need MJD because he would be cost prohibitive. We are good enough at RB that we don't need to take a huge risk on a 7 year vet. (No matter how good he is). We would need to trade picks, player(s) and sign him to a huge extension.
I think this is over blown. Yes he is a 6 year RB but limited touches his first three years helped a lot. 1318 rushes in 6 years averages out to 220 rushes per season. When you look at AP in 5 years he has 1406 rushes. That's 281 carries per season. Really MJD's first three seasons equal out to one season of most RBs. Just over 300.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:13 AM   #259
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The obsession with 100 yd games and 1,000 yd seasons is a little overblown, considering McD was the one calling plays for Moreno those first two years. McD is the coordinator where 1000 yd rushers go to die.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:14 AM   #260
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So... Are people arguing that Denver has no need for MJD because of the talent Denver has currently at RB?
Some people are. Basically Lance Ball, Moreno, and camp fodder back 5c are apparently the same value production wise as one of the three best backs in the NFL.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:15 AM   #261
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This is the Orangemane anti-Moreno argument in a nutshell. "I don't care how good his numbers might actually be.....or how well he compares to the other RBs in his draft class. I just care how he makes me feel when I watch him."
The argument shouldn't even include Moreno. Moreno is a backup this is about improving our starting running game which would mean moving McGahee to second string.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:16 AM   #262
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You don't give up high picks for Rbs in the NFL anymore. If they will take a 3rd round pick for him then great, otherwise no.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:18 AM   #263
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You don't give up high picks for Rbs in the NFL anymore. If they will take a 3rd round pick for him then great, otherwise no.
You don't, for average RBs, but MJD is an elite talent and an easy top
5 RB
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:19 AM   #264
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The argument shouldn't even include Moreno. Moreno is a backup this is about improving our starting running game which would mean moving McGahee to second string.
This is how I don't understand why some get mad when he's called a bust. He's in his 4th year and people are still wondering what he can do? What you see is what you get. A back up RB serviceable at times. That's great for a mid to late round pick, not so much a top 15
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:19 AM   #265
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The argument shouldn't even include Moreno. Moreno is a backup this is about improving our starting running game which would mean moving McGahee to second string.
The crux of the entire problem is the fact that he is a top 15 pick at RB and not even 2nd on the depth chart. And I disagree that it's a motivational thing. I have no doubt that if Willis gets hurt in a regular season game this year it will be Lance ****ing Ball that trots out to replace him. And that's a huge problem.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:22 AM   #266
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The obsession with 100 yd games and 1,000 yd seasons is a little overblown, considering McD was the one calling plays for Moreno those first two years. McD is the coordinator where 1000 yd rushers go to die.
Only when you are a supporter of an average rb. Steven Jackson says hi.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:26 AM   #267
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The crux of the entire problem is the fact that he is a top 15 pick at RB and not even 2nd on the depth chart. And I disagree that it's a motivational thing. I have no doubt that if Willis gets hurt in a regular season game this year it will be Lance ****ing Ball that trots out to replace him. And that's a huge problem.
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This is how I don't understand why some get mad when he's called a bust. He's in his 4th year and people are still wondering what he can do? What you see is what you get. A back up RB serviceable at times. That's great for a mid to late round pick, not so much a top 15
MJD, McGahee, Moreno, Hillman looks so much better then McGahee, Ball, Moreno, Hillman.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:37 AM   #268
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I'd be thrilled with MJD, McGahee, Hillman and Ball as special teamer.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:42 AM   #269
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I'd be thrilled with MJD, McGahee, Hillman and Ball as special teamer.
That would be nice, my only worry is how much will it cost to put MJD in a Broncos uni. I just can't get past a first round pick and I'm not really thrilled about giving away a second round pick either.

Off the top of my head I cannot remember a big trade for a used RB that ever really panned out for the team receiving said RB. Perhaps Indy back in the 1980s when they got Dickerson?

Can anyone help out on any trades in the past 20 years or so where this worked out well for the team getting the RB?
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:46 AM   #270
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That would be nice, my only worry is how much will it cost to put MJD in a Broncos uni. I just can't get past a first round pick and I'm not really thrilled about giving away a second round pick either.

Off the top of my head I cannot remember a big trade for a used RB that ever really panned out for the team receiving said RB. Perhaps Indy back in the 1980s when they got Dickerson?

Can anyone help out on any trades in the past 20 years or so where this worked out well for the team getting the RB?

I don't think it would take a 1st rounder, unless another team throws it out there. Especially since Rashad has been looking so great for the jags. That RB is proving he can step in and replace MJD. If that happens Khan won't miss MJD as much.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:49 AM   #271
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That would be nice, my only worry is how much will it cost to put MJD in a Broncos uni.
I don't know why any fan would concern themselves with this after we just signed Peyton Manning to that monster contract. Do we want to win a Super Bowl or not?

Let's get it done and Bowlen can worry about picking up the tab
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:50 AM   #272
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MJD is already singing a different tune than yesterday. Signs are now looking like he will report before the season starts.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:50 AM   #273
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It isn't the draft picks that would concern me, it's the contract he wants which the new team would absolutely have to pay to get him.

I am all for trying, but not if it hamstrings us.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:52 AM   #274
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Steven Jackson says hi.
No thanks to McD. Steven Jackson hadn't had so few rushing attempts since 2005.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:52 AM   #275
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I don't know why any fan would concern themselves with this after we just signed Peyton Manning to that monster contract. Do we want to win a Super Bowl or not?

Let's get it done and Bowlen can worry about picking up the tab
I meant in trade value, not contract $. Sorry for misunderstanding.
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