Jones-Drew could take Broncos to SB this year!!

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by Heyneck

UHhh... sorry... but RB correlates with wins more than the OL? Hell to the no!!! Did you forget all those Shanny years? What happened to teams like the Vikes, Jags and Tenn last season? Even though they have elite rbs they got nowhere because of various other factors... one being that their Olines really struggled (Tenn not so much).

Having an elite back would be great... but in today's passing NFL they are not worth it unless you are picking them in the draft or getting them with low mileage through a trade (like Portis).

MJD has been a workhorse through his career. It comes a point where you have to ask yourself when he will start to break down?

Tennessee's RBs were pretty bad last year. I'm not saying that having a big name at RB is what matters, it's the play that matters.

Cleveland, Miami, and Indy had the worst play at RB, and they combined for 12 wins. New Orleans, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo had the best play at RB, and they combined for 31 wins.

Meanwhile, the Giants had the second worst OL in the league last year. They sure didn't do anything.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

Let me remove part of your statement to point out the flaw in your logic.




James Starks is no LeSean McCoy. Not by a long shot. But he won more games.

Now I'm a big fan of balance. But not in the "We need a superstar RB to balance out our superstar QB" sense. We need young, reliable legs to chew up what's given to us so we can keep defenses honest. Take-it-to-the-house ability comes in a distant second when you've got an elite QB for that same purpose.

I'm not comparing #1 RB to #1 RB. I'm comparing everyone that took a snap at RB for each team. The Eagles had a combined +7.3 PFF rating for their RBs, the Packers were at +15.4.

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by Heyneck

UHhh... sorry... but RB correlates with wins more than the OL? Hell to the no!!! Did you forget all those Shanny years?

Ummm, the Shanny years actually reinforces the pro-RB argument. Same ranked Oline with TD vs without TD was like night and day.

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Tennessee's RBs were pretty bad last year. I'm not saying that having a big name at RB is what matters, it's the play that matters.

Cleveland, Miami, and Indy had the worst play at RB, and they combined for 12 wins. New Orleans, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo had the best play at RB, and they combined for 31 wins.

Meanwhile, the Giants had the second worst OL in the league last year. They sure didn't do anything.

Dude, Cleveland, MIA and Indy had no offense at all because of terrible QB's. And did you just lump in 6-10 Buffalo with two Top Shelf QB playoff contenders to try to manufacture a point?

And that's the second time I've heard Sproles referenced. He's not an elite RB. He had more receiving yards than rushing last year. Put those yards together and you have about what McGahee did last year. Not Elite. He's a product of Brees.

Off the top of my head the only elite back I can think of that even went to the playoffs last year was Aryan Foster. Oh, or maybe Ray Rice.

There's a lot of other huge names, MJD included who racked up big stats last year, but went home after New Years.

[lolcopter]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

Arian Foster.

fyp

[TheChamp24]

Originally Posted by lolcopter

For a top 5 RB? Not gonna happen

Marshall Faulk was had for a mere 3rd round pick. I don't know why the Colts wanted to give him away, they didn't want to give him his huge contract I think.
It won't take a 1st rounder to get Jones-Drew.

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

Dude, Cleveland, MIA and Indy had no offense at all because of terrible QB's. And did you just lump in 6-10 Buffalo with two Top Shelf QB playoff contenders to try to manufacture a point?

And that's the second time I've heard Sproles referenced. He's not an elite RB. He had more receiving yards than rushing last year. Put those yards together and you have about what McGahee did last year. Not Elite. He's a product of Brees.

Off the top of my head the only elite back I can think of that even went to the playoffs last year was Aryan Foster. Oh, or maybe Ray Rice.

There's a lot of other huge names, MJD included who racked up big stats last year, but went home after New Years.

First off, someone mentioned Pittsburgh got a top performance by their RB's. Their RB's performed average. 1700 yards and 13 TD's between 5 RB's.

Second, lets look at the playoff teams last year and their RB:
Giants - Brandon Jacobs/Ahmad Bradshaw, nothing special but solid
Green Bay Packers - RB committee, nothing special but solid
Detroit Lions - meh
Saints - Nobody exactly elite, but they have a solid group, 3-4 guys deep capable of running the ball/catching the ball
Falcons - here we go, our first "elite" in Turner
49ers - Is Gore considered elite? Kind of on the bubble between elite and great
Patriots - absolutely nobody elite
Ravens - Ray Rice, elite
Steelers - I say nobody elite, Mendenhall is not elite
Bengals - again, nobody elite but solid
Texans - Foster is elite
Broncos - nobody elite, but McGahee is solid

12 playoff teams, 3 elite RB's and 1 borderline elite. Winner of the Super Bowl did not have an elite RB.

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

Originally Posted by lolcopter

Tim tebow, Demaryius Thomas, Knowshon Moreno, Robert Ayers, Jarvis Moss, and Jay Cutler all say "hi!"


D.J. Williams, George Foster and Ashley Lelie were not available for comment





(the second part about his health and missing camp is valid tho)

Hey, you won't get an argument from me on the fact that we haven't drafted well in the first round in the last 10 years or so, though I would point out that last year's class was pretty good, and it was the first with the new regime. Plus, having first rounders means the ability to trade down and get more pieces.

I just think a 7 year vet with 1000 carries in the last three years is maybe not a good investment of a first round pick.

I could even be convinced of a second rounder, especially a late second rounder.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton

I love the idea of MJD... just not for a first round pick. I worry about him breaking down, wonder if he's in playing shape, and wondering how long it would take him to pick up the offense.

Keep in mind, he's missed half of training camp.

http://dailydickpunch.com/2012/08/22...e-right-price/

I tend to agree on the 1st round but I would think if it is a 2nd, we are also trading a player to compensate for their loss. Moreno? Probably have to give a later round pick with that. Moreno gets to go home near Georgia and Jags get a ****ty version of MJD.

[BroncoBen]

Originally Posted by spdirty

A 1st for a running back in his 6th year? Pass...Offer a 3rd and Moreno and be done with it.

I agree a offer of a 1st or 2nd rounder is too much... draft picks are too valuable.

Heck I am disturbed to hear the talk (radio) this morning that if the Broncos would have worked this past draft differently.. they could have drafted with a little wheeling and dealing.

ILB Dont'a Hightower - Who was there with their #1 pick
DT Derek Wolfe - who should have been there on the board with their #2
QB Russell Wilson - which might have required trading up into the 2nd round.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by TheChamp24

Marshall Faulk was had for a mere 3rd round pick. I don't know why the Colts wanted to give him away, they didn't want to give him his huge contract I think.
It won't take a 1st rounder to get Jones-Drew.



First off, someone mentioned Pittsburgh got a top performance by their RB's. Their RB's performed average. 1700 yards and 13 TD's between 5 RB's.

Second, lets look at the playoff teams last year and their RB:
Giants - Brandon Jacobs/Ahmad Bradshaw, nothing special but solid
Green Bay Packers - RB committee, nothing special but solid
Detroit Lions - meh
Saints - Nobody exactly elite, but they have a solid group, 3-4 guys deep capable of running the ball/catching the ball
Falcons - here we go, our first "elite" in Turner
49ers - Is Gore considered elite? Kind of on the bubble between elite and great
Patriots - absolutely nobody elite
Ravens - Ray Rice, elite
Steelers - I say nobody elite, Mendenhall is not elite
Bengals - again, nobody elite but solid
Texans - Foster is elite
Broncos - nobody elite, but McGahee is solid

12 playoff teams, 3 elite RB's and 1 borderline elite. Winner of the Super Bowl did not have an elite RB.

Again, I am not talking about #1 RBs or names, but about the performances of the RB corps as a whole. Here are PFF's ratings for the RB corps of playoff teams:

Giants 5th
Packers 13th
Lions 23rd
Saints 1st
Falcons 16th
49ers 22nd
Patriots 9th
Ravens 15th
Steelers 2nd
Bengals 21st
Texans 4th
Broncos 17th

4 of the top 5 teams made the playoffs, with one winning the SB. Zero of the bottom 9 teams made the playoffs. Average rank was 12th.

For OL:

Giants 31st
Packers 11th
Lions 10th
Saints 1st
Falcons 17
49ers 20th
Patriots 3rd
Ravens 8th
Steelers 25th
Bengals 12th
Texans 5th
Broncos 30th

Only 3 of the top 5 teams made the playoffs, while 3 of the bottom 8 also made it. Average rank is 16th, or average. The team that won the SB ranked next to last.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by Heyneck

UHhh... sorry... but RB correlates with wins more than the OL? Hell to the no!!!

Not saying your completely wrong in your post, but last years SuperBowl winner had a pretty bad Oline. Having said that, they also had only 659 yards by their top RB, and none of their RBs averaged at least 4 yards a carry

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by BroncoBen

I agree a offer of a 1st or 2nd rounder is too much... draft picks are too valuable.

I'll respnd with a copy and past of the best post so far.

Tim tebow, Demaryius Thomas, Knowshon Moreno, Robert Ayers, Jarvis Moss, and Jay Cutler all say "hi!"


D.J. Williams, George Foster and Ashley Lelie were not available for comment

I would add Smith as well since Denver ended up giving a 1st rounder for him.

So tell me where is that 1st round value you are speaking of. This is most every team in the nFL. First round picks are a crap shoot. After all the Chefs spent the #11 selection on POE!

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

Dude, Cleveland, MIA and Indy had no offense at all because of terrible QB's. And did you just lump in 6-10 Buffalo with two Top Shelf QB playoff contenders to try to manufacture a point?

And that's the second time I've heard Sproles referenced. He's not an elite RB. He had more receiving yards than rushing last year. Put those yards together and you have about what McGahee did last year. Not Elite. He's a product of Brees.

Off the top of my head the only elite back I can think of that even went to the playoffs last year was Aryan Foster. Oh, or maybe Ray Rice.

There's a lot of other huge names, MJD included who racked up big stats last year, but went home after New Years.

Again, not names, but performance. Also, when did it become bad for an RB to catch the ball? That's part of the reason I want MJD.

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by BroncoBen

I agree a offer of a 1st or 2nd rounder is too much... draft picks are too valuable.

They couldn't be less valuable IMO. Especially a team like the Broncos that, due to player trades and trade downs the last 5 years, have had a Hershel Walker-like bounty of picks to work with and we've come away with next to nothing. I have zero confidence we'll ever be able to come away with anyone better than leage average unless we pick #2 again.

Originally Posted by BroncoBen

Heck I am disturbed to hear the talk (radio) this morning that if the Broncos would have worked this past draft differently.. they could have drafted with a little wheeling and dealing.

ILB Dont'a Hightower - Who was there with their #1 pick
DT Derek Wolfe - who should have been there on the board with their #2
QB Russell Wilson - which might have required trading up into the 2nd round.

At least 25 or so teams can do this to themselves after every draft. It's not worth stressing over.

[Broncos_OTM]

guy has two years left on his contract. I am with khan on this one. I ain't giving him a new contract, and I wouldn't trade for him. imagine if he was in denver pulling this id be pissed. you signed the co.tract you play for what you signed. saying that MJD in denver would be sick. not gonna happen though

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

I'll respnd with a copy and past of the best post so far.



I would add Smith as well since Denver ended up giving a 1st rounder for him.

So tell me where is that 1st round value you are speaking of. This is most every team in the nFL. First round picks are a crap shoot. After all the Chefs spent the #11 selection on POE!

Shows how valuable a smart FO really is. Teams with good FOs a 1st rounder is far more valuable than teams whose FO use crayons and mock drafts on draft day. So I'd say a 1st is very valuable depending on the FO at the time. Look at those names then look at who drafted them.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by Broncos_OTM

guy has two years left on his contract. I am with khan on this one. I ain't giving him a new contract, and I wouldn't trade for him. imagine if he was in denver pulling this id be pissed. you signed the co.tract you play for what you signed. saying that MJD in denver would be sick. not gonna happen though

Not only that, his contract was front loaded. It was like top 3 highest for a RB at the time of the signing. He's just upset the tail end of the contract is happening now.

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

I'll respnd with a copy and past of the best post so far.



I would add Smith as well since Denver ended up giving a 1st rounder for him.

So tell me where is that 1st round value you are speaking of. This is most every team in the nFL. First round picks are a crap shoot. After all the Chefs spent the #11 selection on POE!

Nothing like attributing the failures of past regimes to the current regime.

"We drafted poorly in the past, so we will always draft poorly," said no logical person ever.

[Heyneck]

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

Ummm, the Shanny years actually reinforces the pro-RB argument. Same ranked Oline with TD vs without TD was like night and day.

TD was one in a million. We had a wicked oline that kept paving the way for 1000 yard rushers on a consistent basis. Look TD was a draft steal, if we happen to stumble upon a rb like that... I'll be stocked (used to be a huge Portis fan). It's just a huge risk investing a 1st on a rb with so much wear on the wheels, plus, we would have to pay him AP and CJ tipe money.

Anyway... back on track. What do you think is a better recipe for success for an offense. An elite RB or a great OL? Look what happened in SEA when they had that awesome OL. They made Shaun Alexander look like a HoF for a couple of years. They then lost Hutch and Shaun Alexander turns into... well... Shaun Alexander. That same Hutch goes on to Min as the missing piece to an OL that makes AP blow into the scene. Ever since that Oline started to fall apart AP hasn't been able to put up the same numbers he did in his first 2 years. AP is an Elite talent that is still able to overcome his teammates flaws... but look how many times and how hard their QBs have been hit.

A great Oline is way more important than an Elite RB.

[Bacchus]

Rant sports

NFL Rumors: Denver Broncos to Trade For Maurice Jones-Drew?



The Denver Broncos already made the move of the offseason when they acquired free agent Peyton Manning. Now NFL rumors are swirling surrounding the potential landing spot for Jacksonville Jaguars running back Maurice Jones-Drew and Denver is rumored to be interested.
MJD is in the midst of a holdout due to a desire for a new long term contract. Jaguars owner Shad Khan is not giving in and even offered a statement hinting that Jones-Drew could get traded.

“Train is leaving the station. Run, get on it” Khan said in regards to their hard-lined approach to MJD’s contract

As you can imagine, several teams have expressed interest in acquiring MJD and the Broncos might be one of those teams. It wouldn’t be too far of a stretch to see John Elway make a move to get Jones-Drew. Manning needs a solid running game, and although they already have Willis McGahee, if the league’s reining rush leader is up for grabs you have to at least see if it’s plausible.


In June, the Broncos were said to have $11.7 million left in cap space so they have the capability of luring MJD. He would come at a high price tag but there is the potential to negotiate a lower contract but load it with easily reachable incentives and a bonus after one season in order to work with the Broncos current salary cap.
That now leads us to who the Broncos would be willing to trade. First name that comes to mind would be RB Knowshon Moreno. Denver has not been pleased with the way Moreno has performed in his first few seasons with the team. He was obviously dealing with injuries but he’s had some off-the-field issues as well but the Broncos wouldn’t mind parting ways with the former Georgia product. Linebacker DJ Williams is also another possibility in a trade scenario due to his non-football drama. Williams has been a good player but the front office may be fed up with his antics off the field and would be willing to let him go.


Even if everything worked out and the Broncos were able to trade for MJD what would that mean for McGahee? It would most likely mean his departure as well. McGahee re-signed with the Broncos this offseason because he viewed Denver as the place where he knew he would be able to start. I don’t think he would be happy to be the No. 2 running back again behind Jones-Drew if he was brought in.


As for now, Jones-Drew is still under contract with the Jaguars and the team has said they are unwilling to trade him. Until he signs a contract or the team officially places him on the trading block, all the reports should just be taken as rumors and speculation.


http://www.rantsports.com/redzonetal...ce-jones-drew/

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by Heyneck

TD was one in a million. We had a wicked oline that kept paving the way for 1000 yard rushers on a consistent basis. Look TD was a draft steal, if we happen to stumble upon a rb like that... I'll be stocked (used to be a huge Portis fan). It's just a huge risk investing a 1st on a rb with so much wear on the wheels, plus, we would have to pay him AP and CJ tipe money.

Anyway... back on track. What do you think is a better recipe for success for an offense. An elite RB or a great OL? Look what happened in SEA when they had that awesome OL. They made Shaun Alexander look like a HoF for a couple of years. They then lost Hutch and Shaun Alexander turns into... well... Shaun Alexander. That same Hutch goes on to Min as the missing piece to an OL that makes AP blow into the scene. Ever since that Oline started to fall apart AP hasn't been able to put up the same numbers he did in his first 2 years. AP is an Elite talent that is still able to overcome his teammates flaws... but look how many times and how hard their QBs have been hit.

A great Oline is way more important than an Elite RB.

Injuries did turn Shaun alexanders career for worse. Blame the Oline? Certainly an arguement for that. But I blame Shaun Alexander's slide on the 2007 madden cover curse!

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by Heyneck

Anyway... back on track. What do you think is a better recipe for success for an offense. An elite RB or a great OL? Look what happened in SEA when they had that awesome OL. They made Shaun Alexander look like a HoF for a couple of years. They then lost Hutch and Shaun Alexander turns into... well... Shaun Alexander. That same Hutch goes on to Min as the missing piece to an OL that makes AP blow into the scene. Ever since that Oline started to fall apart AP hasn't been able to put up the same numbers he did in his first 2 years. AP is an Elite talent that is still able to overcome his teammates flaws... but look how many times and how hard their QBs have been hit.

A great Oline is way more important than an Elite RB.

Yes, but this decision isn't a hypothetical on paper thing. We know who the RB is that we can acquire. Do you have the Olinemen that we can acquire now to achieve teh "top OLine" billing?

MJD is UNQUESTIONABLY a top 5 running back in this league. We need AT LEAST TWO awesome OLinemen to get a top 5 ranked OLine. One to take Walton's place and one to take Beadles'. Are any of the top 5 guards and centers in the league available for trade right now? If so, I'd love to hear it.

[LRtagger]

MJD for McGahee, DJ, and a 2nd

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

Why does anyone think that any team will want DJ Williams in a frigging trade? The guy is going to miss 6 games, and with his DUI conviction it could be as many as 10. TEN GAMES! And someone is going to trade for him?

Stop. Stop the madness.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Looking back at the Super Bowl winners over the last few years, I don't see many great running games. Wasn't Rogers getting sacked a lot? Patriots certainly didn't have much run game. Giants were one of the worst last year. If I remember colts didn't have too much a threat. Can't remember if the saints did their year. I do see a passing QB correlation with all these winners. So an Oline makes it worth up by protecting these QBs.