Breaking down the AFC West

[Rolandftw]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Your stats are wrong. Cassel has beaten a Miami Dolphins team that made the playoffs. I'm not sure if he's beaten another one, but that one came to mind.
So I guess your whole Orton theory is off.

I'm not referencing his games with the Patriots, as they're not very relevant.. unless you feel KC has a similar team to that team. I think if you put Cassel on a 16-0 type team with one of the greatest coaches of all time, he can win a few games for you. But that's true for basically almost any QB in the league

The Chiefs aren't that team tho. Agreed that the coordinator changes hasn't helped Cassel out much.

[DivineLegion]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Well I think KC does have a very talented team that should be top 10 in rushing and defense, along with some good weapons.
We saw what SF did last year with a QB who was in the same boat as Cassel. Why can't it happen again?

Top ten isn't going to cut. You have to be #1 or 2 overall in defense if you want to amount to the success of those three teams. The Panthers were #2 in defense after 03, the Bucs were #1, and so were the Bears. Remember the Bucs were the only team out of the three to win, and that can be attributed to good QB play from Johnson. The Bears had a pitiful offense, but Devin Hester and the Defense managed enough points to get that team to the Super Bowl. The Panthers running game and defense got them to the big show, but in the end proved lacking against a dominant Patriots team.

The 49ers last year fell victim to the same flaws that brought down the previously mentioned contenders. In the playoffs, a good defense can only carry you as far as the opposing offenses mistakes. This has become the new trend in a pass dominated league. It's a lot harder to force mistakes in a league that puts so much emphasis on the QB, and receiver. Disrupting timing, and "making QBs pay" are archaic notions now. To counter balance this you have to be able to match the offensive production you allow, hence the importance of an accurate QB. Alex Smith could make plays happen, but when it counted on third down he failed. Give a QB like Brees, Manningx2, Brady, Rogers, or Ben the ball with a min 20 left in a game, and your done.

[KCStud]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Alex Smith out-dueled Drew Brees.

Lol you're so dumb.

Smith had 3 TD's and 300 yards. Brees had 4 TD's and 462. That sure is out-dueling him!

[KCStud]

Originally Posted by Rolandftw

I'm not referencing his games with the Patriots, as they're not very relevant.. unless you feel KC has a similar team to that team. I think if you put Cassel on a 16-0 type team with one of the greatest coaches of all time, he can win a few games for you. But that's true for basically almost any QB in the league

The Chiefs aren't that team tho. Agreed that the coordinator changes hasn't helped Cassel out much.

Why is it not relevant? Because the team was talented?
This is by far the best team he's had in KC. It has talent to help him succeed. In 2009, it was known that the team was just awful talent wise and there was no way for any QB to succeed. Last year he lost his receiver with the best hands (Moeaki) and a RB that averaged 6+ YPC (Charles) and he still had the team in first place the week he got hurt.

I agree that he needs to beat good teams, but saying he was only good because of being with good teams, but discounting his average play on bad teams is foolish.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Why is it not relevant? Because the team was talented?
This is by far the best team he's had in KC. It has talent to help him succeed. In 2009, it was known that the team was just awful talent wise and there was no way for any QB to succeed. Last year he lost his receiver with the best hands (Moeaki) and a RB that averaged 6+ YPC (Charles) and he still had the team in first place the week he got hurt.

I agree that he needs to beat good teams, but saying he was only good because of being with good teams, but discounting his average play on bad teams is foolish.

That's like the Jets crying about Dustin Keller getting hurt.

[KCStud]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

That's like the Jets crying about Dustin Keller getting hurt.

Or the Broncos fans crying about Von Miller being hurt....

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Or the Broncos fans crying about Von Miller being hurt....

Oh so Miller is average?

[DBroncos4life]

Moeaki will never be any better then Dustin Keller. Stop trying to make him better then anything other then that.

[KCStud]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

Oh so Miller is average?

You just kinda make this stuff up as you go huh?

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by KCStud

You just kinda make this stuff up as you go huh?

Oh **** are YOU really saying this.

[KCStud]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

Oh **** are YOU really saying this.

I present facts. You present emoticons. Are you a woman by chance?

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by KCStud

I present facts. You present emoticons. Are you a woman by chance?

Moeaki is average at best so crying about him being out is funny. Miller is a star so him not being able to play is a huge deal. That is facts.

[KCStud]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

Moeaki is average at best so crying about him being out is funny. Miller is a star so him not being able to play is a huge deal. That is facts.

Moeaki had a solid rookie year and proved to have outstanding hands a was an above average blocker. Showed a lot of promise.

You saying he is average after only one season is funny

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Moeaki had a solid rookie year and proved to have outstanding hands a was an above average blocker. Showed a lot of promise.

You saying he is average after only one season is funny

He looked a lot like Dustin Keller to me.

[Rolandftw]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Why is it not relevant? Because the team was talented?
This is by far the best team he's had in KC. It has talent to help him succeed. In 2009, it was known that the team was just awful talent wise and there was no way for any QB to succeed. Last year he lost his receiver with the best hands (Moeaki) and a RB that averaged 6+ YPC (Charles) and he still had the team in first place the week he got hurt.

I agree that he needs to beat good teams, but saying he was only good because of being with good teams, but discounting his average play on bad teams is foolish.

It's not relevant because KC doesn't have near the team that New England had in 2008.

I'm not arguing that Cassel would fail to be decent if he was surrounded with the Patriots talent. I'm arguing that the deck is stacked against KC if they have around the 9th-11th ranked defense, with Cassel as the QB. And I'm not arguing that KC couldn't win a mediocre division with Cassel (although I don't think it's mediocre this year)

Obviously if KC has the top ranked defense, KC would be relevant as far as the Super Bowl goes. Losing Moeaki hurt, but he was an injury prone player throughout his career in Iowa, so really shouldn't be surprising to anyone that he got hurt.

Charles injury was huge obviously. Not just for last year, but it's likely going to be 2013 before he's close to what he was before the injury.

And KC being in first place the week before he hurt had a lot more to do with the division he was playing in then Cassel "leading" KC anywhere.

Far as KC having the more talent then in 2010, guess we'll see. I still see some glaring depth problems that could really negatively impact KC's team. really need the corners to stay healthy, Routt to return to his 2010 form, Bowe to be a quick learner/pray he stayed in moderated shape, Charles to return to form, Hillis being less of a retard then he is normally.. among other factors. As much as Manning is a question mark for the Broncos, I'd say KC has just as many question marks if not more.

[Jetmeck]

DUD................your home town bias is showing.

KC has more questions than answers.

[Irish Stout]

Originally Posted by KCStud

You just kinda make this stuff up as you go huh?

Is no one else allowed to play by your rules?

[Rabb]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Moeaki had a solid rookie year and proved to have outstanding hands a was an above average blocker. Showed a lot of promise.

You saying he is average after only one season is funny

I am probably the biggest Iowa homer on this board and hated seeing him go to KC...watched him extensively in college. To claim he looked anything more than average right now is laughable.

/waiting for you to blame it on Cassel

[DENVERDUI55]

Originally Posted by KCStud

I present facts. You present emoticons. Are you a woman by chance?

No you spit cherrypicked stats.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by DivineLegion

Top ten isn't going to cut. You have to be #1 or 2 overall in defense if you want to amount to the success of those three teams. The Panthers were #2 in defense after 03, the Bucs were #1, and so were the Bears. Remember the Bucs were the only team out of the three to win, and that can be attributed to good QB play from Johnson. The Bears had a pitiful offense, but Devin Hester and the Defense managed enough points to get that team to the Super Bowl. The Panthers running game and defense got them to the big show, but in the end proved lacking against a dominant Patriots team.

The 49ers last year fell victim to the same flaws that brought down the previously mentioned contenders. In the playoffs, a good defense can only carry you as far as the opposing offenses mistakes. This has become the new trend in a pass dominated league. It's a lot harder to force mistakes in a league that puts so much emphasis on the QB, and receiver. Disrupting timing, and "making QBs pay" are archaic notions now. To counter balance this you have to be able to match the offensive production you allow, hence the importance of an accurate QB. Alex Smith could make plays happen, but when it counted on third down he failed. Give a QB like Brees, Manningx2, Brady, Rogers, or Ben the ball with a min 20 left in a game, and your done.

yah, wrong. The pats barely beat the Panthers in the SB and that was with them taping the panthers walk throughs.

[KCStud]

Originally Posted by Rolandftw

It's not relevant because KC doesn't have near the team that New England had in 2008.

I'm not arguing that Cassel would fail to be decent if he was surrounded with the Patriots talent. I'm arguing that the deck is stacked against KC if they have around the 9th-11th ranked defense, with Cassel as the QB. And I'm not arguing that KC couldn't win a mediocre division with Cassel (although I don't think it's mediocre this year)

Obviously if KC has the top ranked defense, KC would be relevant as far as the Super Bowl goes. Losing Moeaki hurt, but he was an injury prone player throughout his career in Iowa, so really shouldn't be surprising to anyone that he got hurt.

Charles injury was huge obviously. Not just for last year, but it's likely going to be 2013 before he's close to what he was before the injury.

And KC being in first place the week before he hurt had a lot more to do with the division he was playing in then Cassel "leading" KC anywhere.

Far as KC having the more talent then in 2010, guess we'll see. I still see some glaring depth problems that could really negatively impact KC's team. really need the corners to stay healthy, Routt to return to his 2010 form, Bowe to be a quick learner/pray he stayed in moderated shape, Charles to return to form, Hillis being less of a retard then he is normally.. among other factors. As much as Manning is a question mark for the Broncos, I'd say KC has just as many question marks if not more.

The thing you guys need to realize with Charles is that he isn't going to be used a ton like a lot of extra players. If he has 1,000 yards and breaks some nice runs consistently through the year I'm happy. The Chiefs were 15th in rushing last year with McCluster and Battle. It won't be hard to be better than that.
The biggest upgrade Hillis brings is his ability to get tough yards. Thomas Jones sucked at that and we desperately needed an upgrade in that area.

Will Peyton Manning be the old QB to throw 30 TD's this year? Will the offense gel with an extremely tough first half? Can the Broncos stop the run consistently with DMC and Charles coming back? Is the offense line gonna prove they can protect Manning after Clady and Franklin struggled last year and Harris coming off of injury?

The entire division has an abundance of questions. Not just the Chiefs.

[Rabb]

Originally Posted by KCStud

The thing you guys need to realize with Charles is that he isn't going to be used a ton like a lot of extra players. If he has 1,000 yards and breaks some nice runs consistently through the year I'm happy. The Chiefs were 15th in rushing last year with McCluster and Battle. It won't be hard to be better than that.
The biggest upgrade Hillis brings is his ability to get tough yards. Thomas Jones sucked at that and we desperately needed an upgrade in that area.

Will Peyton Manning be the old QB to throw 30 TD's this year? Will the offense gel with an extremely tough first half? Can the Broncos stop the run consistently with DMC and Charles coming back? Is the offense line gonna prove they can protect Manning after Clady and Franklin struggled last year and Harris coming off of injury?

The entire division has an abundance of questions. Not just the Chiefs.

I actually agree with this, I feel dirty

[DivineLegion]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

yah, wrong. The pats barely beat the Panthers in the SB and that was with them taping the panthers walk throughs.

They went 14-2 in the regular season with the top scoring defense, and 7th ranked scoring offense. Spygate or not that was a dominant team.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by DivineLegion

They went 14-2 in the regular season with the top scoring defense, and 7th ranked scoring offense. Spygate or not that was a dominant team.

fair enough but they did not dominate the Panthers in the SB. They squeaked by. You made it sound like the Pats dominated the Panthers, perhaps I misread your post.

[Rolandftw]

Originally Posted by KCStud

The thing you guys need to realize with Charles is that he isn't going to be used a ton like a lot of extra players. If he has 1,000 yards and breaks some nice runs consistently through the year I'm happy. The Chiefs were 15th in rushing last year with McCluster and Battle. It won't be hard to be better than that.
The biggest upgrade Hillis brings is his ability to get tough yards. Thomas Jones sucked at that and we desperately needed an upgrade in that area.

Will Peyton Manning be the old QB to throw 30 TD's this year? Will the offense gel with an extremely tough first half? Can the Broncos stop the run consistently with DMC and Charles coming back? Is the offense line gonna prove they can protect Manning after Clady and Franklin struggled last year and Harris coming off of injury?

The entire division has an abundance of questions. Not just the Chiefs.

I'd be shocked if he had more then 700 yards. History is completely against him here.

Hillis is a fumble machine. Really doubt that changes.

Most of your question marks revolve around Manning. Behind a pro style offense, doubt there will be any protection problems. Running game minus Tebow is a big question mark tho