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Old 08-05-2012, 01:55 AM   #526
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yeah,when he had a ligit running game. say what you want about the raiders,but they're no slouch when it comes to running the ball which will help palmer quite a bit.
A lack of a running game hasn't even been close to one of the reasons Palmer has sucked for the last half-decade.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:38 PM   #527
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In my opinion he won't, but average QB's have led teams to SB's before, so it's not impossible for a game manager like him or Cassel to do it.
You'd have a great career as a politician.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:50 PM   #528
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In my opinion he won't, but average QB's have led GREAT teams to SB's before, so it's not impossible for a game manager like him or Cassel to do it.
Fixed that for you.

Sometimes the player makes the team (Peyton Manning) or the team makes the Player (Trent Dilfer, Mark Sanchez, or Joe Flacco).

KC is a solid team with NO QB worth a crap. They have been that way since my friend Trent Green retired. No amount of posturing or spin can change that fact.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:24 PM   #529
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In my opinion he won't, but average QB's have led teams to SB's before, so it's not impossible for a game manager like him or Cassel to do it.
It's not impossible if KC has a truly dominant defense. Even still, if they are on the field for too long it's going to wear them down. It really doesn't have much to do with Cassel, but with how KC's defense is.

Also, the rules favor the offense more so then in even the past ten years... so much harder to build that dominant defense you speak of
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:02 PM   #530
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Fixed that for you.

Sometimes the player makes the team (Peyton Manning) or the team makes the Player (Trent Dilfer, Mark Sanchez, or Joe Flacco).

KC is a solid team with NO QB worth a crap. They have been that way since my friend Trent Green retired. No amount of posturing or spin can change that fact.
But yet Alex Smith almost took the 49ers to the SB? And Rex Grossman took the Bears to the SB? I think Cassel is just as good as those 2 on a team with a good surrounding.
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:35 PM   #531
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The difference is, Alex Smith, just like Mark Sanchez stepped it up in the playoffs.

Cassel shriveled up into a fetal position.

Grossman was an aberration. He was totally carried by that defense and Devin Hester.
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:41 PM   #532
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But yet Alex Smith almost took the 49ers to the SB? And Rex Grossman took the Bears to the SB? I think Cassel is just as good as those 2 on a team with a good surrounding.
Go back through the past 20 Superbowls and tell me how many Cassel like QBs there were? Not many! Brees/Manning, Rogers/BigBen, Manning/Brady x 2, Warner/BigBen is a quick start. KC isn't doing anything with the trash they have at the most important position in all of sports.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:21 PM   #533
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Go back through the past 20 Superbowls and tell me how many Cassel like QBs there were? Not many! Brees/Manning, Rogers/BigBen, Manning/Brady x 2, Warner/BigBen is a quick start. KC isn't doing anything with the trash they have at the most important position in all of sports.
Rex Grossman? Jake Delhomme? Brad Johnson?
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:27 PM   #534
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The difference is, Alex Smith, just like Mark Sanchez stepped it up in the playoffs.

Cassel shriveled up into a fetal position.

Grossman was an aberration. He was totally carried by that defense and Devin Hester.
So a QB should be judged on a performance in only one playoff game?
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:37 PM   #535
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You guys wanna see an awful QB with a huge contract who can't win anything?

Turn it to the Hall of Fame game.
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:21 PM   #536
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Rex Grossman? Jake Delhomme? Brad Johnson?
Brad Johnson has done a lot more than Cassel. The other two guys played on teams with great D's and did they beat the franchise QB they went up against?
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:53 PM   #537
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Brad Johnson has done a lot more than Cassel. The other two guys played on teams with great D's and did they beat the franchise QB they went up against?
Brad Johnson was an average QB and made it to the SB like the other QB's. So other average QB's can't?
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:06 PM   #538
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Brad Johnson was an average QB and made it to the SB like the other QB's. So other average QB's can't?
2 time probowler, SB winner, completed over 60 percent of his passes for his career. While he wasn't a franchise guy he was a good QB that is a lot better than Cassel is for sure.
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:48 PM   #539
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Rex Grossman? Jake Delhomme? Brad Johnson?
Rex= Historicly good Defense and Special teams.

Delhome= Great Defense, Special teams (HeHateMe), and running game. FWIW Delhome has completed around 60% of his passes for most of his career.

Brad Johnson= one of the best defenses in the modern era, plus a great ground game.


Question: Do you have two of the three prerequisite categories listed above? If so be my guest in explaining how you are going to overcome your sorry QB.
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:38 PM   #540
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Rex= Historicly good Defense and Special teams.

Delhome= Great Defense, Special teams (HeHateMe), and running game. FWIW Delhome has completed around 60% of his passes for most of his career.

Brad Johnson= one of the best defenses in the modern era, plus a great ground game.


Question: Do you have two of the three prerequisite categories listed above? If so be my guest in explaining how you are going to overcome your sorry QB.
Well I think KC does have a very talented team that should be top 10 in rushing and defense, along with some good weapons.
We saw what SF did last year with a QB who was in the same boat as Cassel. Why can't it happen again?
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:55 PM   #541
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In this day and age, when QB's like Alex Smith, TJ Yates, and Mark Sanchez have won playoff games despite their bad performances, anything can happen.

Cassel is just as good of a QB as those 3.
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:57 PM   #542
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In this day and age, when QB's like Alex Smith, TJ Yates, and Mark Sanchez have won playoff games despite their bad performances, anything can happen.

Cassel is just as good of a QB as those 3.
But he's not.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:04 PM   #543
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But he's not.
Despite Cassel throwing more TD's in a season than all of them? Or having a better completion percentage and QB rating than Smith and Sanchez? C'mon man.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:12 PM   #544
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I don't think that Cassel can lead the Chiefs to the SB until he starts winning in the playoffs...
Now this is insightful football analysis. So your theory is that he has to win playoff games before the Super Bowl?

Why do you give away this kind of knowledge for free?
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:31 PM   #545
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But he's not.
Alex Smith out-dueled Drew Brees. Mark Sanchez has been pretty clutch making some big time throws when the Jets needed them, throwing to some horrible talent.

I wouldn't say either is elite, but they are a few steps above Matt Casserole, for sure. I've never seen Casserole "win" a game for them.

When you factor the offensive talent coaching ability of Romeo Crennel and Brian Daboll, things get uglier.

I've already talked about Crennell's winning percentage as good if it were a MLB batting average for a middle-lineup player.

Daboll is a freaking joke.

On the Dolphins he coached them up to 20th in points
On his two years with the Browns, 09-10, Daboll led an offense that finished both years 30th and 29th points (31st and 32nd in yardage).

Before that he was the QB coach of the New York Jets for two years. They also happened to be one of the two worst years of both Chad Pennington and Brett Favre's careers, statistically.

So Matt sucks, but even if he had some degree of talent, that coaching staff isn't going to be able to get it out of him.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:34 PM   #546
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But he's not.
And what about Matt Hasselback, who was 0-2 in the playoffs before having success? Mark Sanchez is an awful QB that has benefited from having an outstanding supporting cast surrounding him.

To say Cassel can't win in the playoffs because of one bad game is retarded. There needs to be more proof of him not doing well in the playoffs.

As for Pioli, he has tried to bring in a franchise QB into the building. He tried to get Manning. He tried to trade up for RG3. And I think he'll try even more. Pioli hasn't had a chance to get a real franchise QB since he's been in KC. When he does I think he'll pull the trigger.

Last edited by KCStud; 08-05-2012 at 10:05 PM..
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:26 PM   #547
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Despite Cassel throwing more TD's in a season than all of them? Or having a better completion percentage and QB rating than Smith and Sanchez? C'mon man.
What? I can't have an opinion?

I don't love any of them but I'd take Smith and Sanchez over Cassel based on how they've performed in big games.

You'd take Cassel over them because you're a homer.

It's all good.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:58 PM   #548
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And what about Matt Hasselback, who was 0-2 in the playoffs before having success? Mark Sanchez is an awful QB that has benefited from having an outstanding supporting cast surrounding him.

To say Cassel can't win in the playoffs because of one bad game is retarded. There needs to be more proof of him not doing well in the playoffs.

As for Pioli, he has tried to bring in a franchise QB into the building. He tried to get Manning. He tried to trade up for RG3. And I think he'll try even more. Pioli hasn't had a chance to get a real franchise QB since he's been in KC. When he does I think he'll pull the trigger.
Sanchez is also a young QB, that in theory, could still improve as a player.

Cassel had three years to "learn" the NFL game, and 4 years as the starting QB. If he hasn't got it by now, he probably isn't going to.

It's not that he "can't win in the playoffs," as much as he "can't beat anybody good." A 1-9 record against teams that made the playoffs, with his lone win being against the 7-9 Seattle Seahawks.

Again, Kyle Orton doubled Cassel's win total with the Chiefs against playoff teams over a near 3 year span--in 3 games. Kyle Freaking Orton. Even a QB at his level would make the Chiefs a more dangerous team.

KC will be a good team this year defensively, but not at the level of San Francisco. And from a rushing standpoint, it is not likely Charles returns to his 2010 form next season. Will likely be around 2013 before he's close to that.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:10 AM   #549
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Sanchez is also a young QB, that in theory, could still improve as a player.

Cassel had three years to "learn" the NFL game, and 4 years as the starting QB. If he hasn't got it by now, he probably isn't going to.

It's not that he "can't win in the playoffs," as much as he "can't beat anybody good." A 1-9 record against teams that made the playoffs, with his lone win being against the 7-9 Seattle Seahawks.

Again, Kyle Orton doubled Cassel's win total with the Chiefs against playoff teams over a near 3 year span--in 3 games. Kyle Freaking Orton. Even a QB at his level would make the Chiefs a more dangerous team.

KC will be a good team this year defensively, but not at the level of San Francisco. And from a rushing standpoint, it is not likely Charles returns to his 2010 form next season. Will likely be around 2013 before he's close to that.
Your stats are wrong. Cassel has beaten a Miami Dolphins team that made the playoffs. I'm not sure if he's beaten another one, but that one came to mind.
So I guess your whole Orton theory is off.

As for Cassel learning, in his 4 years as a starter, he's had 3 head coaches and a 4 offensive coordinators. He's literally learned a new system every single season. Cassel has had his team at double digits wins in 2 of the 4 years and last year he had the Chiefs tied for 1st place in the division the week that he got hurt.

I'm not saying he's a franchise QB, but other aspects should be noted. I don't think that many QB's can just learn entirely new systems every single year and look fantastic.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:12 AM   #550
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Actually correct that, Cassel has had 5 offensive coordinators/coaches running the show in 4 years.

In 2009 he had Chan Gailey for OTA's and training camp, then Haley fired him and wanted things ran his way right before week 1.
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