Breaking down the AFC West

[boltaneer]

Originally Posted by KCStud

I give Romeo credit for drafting a first round "franchise" (as most called him) QB. That's more than our organization has done. You can't have a franchise QB if you don't at least try, you know?

Yep. And Romeo won't get the chance to draft anyone in KC either. Seems they avoid drafting "franchise" QBs like the Broncos avoid drafting "franchise" DTs.

And I don't give Romeo credit for drafting Quinn. I'm sorry, but there was so many red flags about the guy's ability to be a NFL caliber quarterback.

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by KCStud

KC 1 Tom Brady's knee 0

What was Manning's record against KC to be clear?

[Ingame]

I'd be more interested in how Manning has played against Crennels defenses, or how he played in 2010 against the AFC west?

[E_Rox]

Originally Posted by Ingame

I'd be more interested in how Manning has played against Crennels defenses, or how he played in 2010 against the AFC west?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits...peyton-manning

Splits for the 2010 season. Fodder for the Bolts fan as they beat Indy, only West team to do so. Stats pretty pedestrian against West teams. Interesting about own division stats, much better than vs rest of AFC. Back half of season should be interesting

[KCStud]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

What was Manning's record against KC to be clear?

Why? Is Peyton still playing for the Colts?

[KCStud]

Originally Posted by boltaneer

Yep. And Romeo won't get the chance to draft anyone in KC either. Seems they avoid drafting "franchise" QBs like the Broncos avoid drafting "franchise" DTs.

And I don't give Romeo credit for drafting Quinn. I'm sorry, but there was so many red flags about the guy's ability to be a NFL caliber quarterback.

How do you know? If the Chiefs have a bad season, Cassel is the fall guy. Romeo and Daboll are first year coaches. Pioli isn't getting fired. And Clark obviously runs the team.

Pioli has done a great job building the team. What defines his time in KC will be who he replaces Matt Cassel with.

[Bacillus Anthracis]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Why? Is Peyton still playing for the Colts?

No, but neither is Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clarke, Jeff Saturday, etc. The problem is, they don't play for the Broncos either. But similar to Manning, they all peaked years ago.

[Irish Stout]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Why? Is Peyton still playing for the Colts?

I really am starting to like you. You have such a charming way of being an ignorant hypocrite. Remind me to send a charitable contribution to your sponsoring organization at the end of the year. Its really important for organizations like NASN and AAIDD to allow their clients the use of computers to grow and learn.

[E_Rox]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Pioli has done a great job building the team. What defines his time in KC will be who he replaces Matt Cassel with.

Shouldn't the definition be that he hand selected Cassel to start his legacy in KC?

[E_Rox]

Actually Pioli deserves more credit than what I have not shown in the past.


He did an admirable job playing Curly in the recent 3 Stooges movie.

[KCStud]

Originally Posted by E_Rox

Shouldn't the definition be that he hand selected Cassel to start his legacy in KC?

Cassel was the best option Pioli had in 2009 and a good QB to go through the building pains of building the team.

Starting a young QB on a 2-23 team would have ruined the QB's confidence ala David Carr.

[DENVERDUI55]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Cassel was the best option Pioli had in 2009 and a good QB to go through the building pains of building the team.

Starting a young QB on a 2-23 team would have ruined the QB's confidence ala David Carr.

ALA John Elway, Eli/Peyton Manning, Troy Aikmen, Steve Young, Matt Safford, Terry Bradshaw and the list goes on. That is a pathetic excuse Carr just wasn't what he was thought to be.

[KCStud]

Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55

ALA John Elway, Eli/Peyton Manning, Troy Aikmen, Steve Young, Matt Safford, Terry Bradshaw and the list goes on. That is a pathetic excuse Carr just wasn't what he was thought to be.

And who was KC supposed to draft? Dirty Sanchez? Josh Freeman? Freeman already sucks and Sanchez would have fallen apart faster than a chinese motorcycle. There goes that argument.

[LongDongJohnson]

Originally Posted by KCStud

And who was KC supposed to draft? Dirty Sanchez? Josh Freeman? Freeman already sucks and Sanchez would have fallen apart faster than a chinese motorcycle. There goes that argument.

Id take either of them over tyson jackson.

[boltaneer]

I'm not a Sanchez fan at all but I'd take him over Cassel. He's played fairly well in the playoffs and I think he'd improve if he'd get away from the Jets circus.

I'd take Freeman in a heartbeat over Cassel. Not really much difference between the two right now and he's much younger and with much more upside over Cassel.

Chiefs also missed out on Andy Dalton, who looks like he may become a pretty damn good quarterback.

[KCStud]

Originally Posted by boltaneer

I'm not a Sanchez fan at all but I'd take him over Cassel. He's played fairly well in the playoffs and I think he'd improve if he'd get away from the Jets circus.

I'd take Freeman in a heartbeat over Cassel. Not really much difference between the two right now and he's much younger and with much more upside over Cassel.

Chiefs also missed out on Andy Dalton, who looks like he may become a pretty damn good quarterback.

Sanchez is nowhere near worth the 4th overall pick. Not anywhere near it. And while Tyson Jackson isn't either, his position is nowhere near as a determining factor as Sanchez' is.

Sanchez is essentially the same QB as Cassel. They're QB's that have to have everything around them be perfect for them to succeed.

The difference is the Jets were gave up picks to move up to #4 overall to draft the guy.

If I'm drafting a QB at #4, I'd rather it not be a QB with huge question marks surrounding him.

[boltaneer]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Sanchez is nowhere near worth the 4th overall pick. Not anywhere near it. And while Tyson Jackson isn't either, his position is nowhere near as a determining factor as Sanchez' is.

Sanchez is essentially the same QB as Cassel. They're QB's that have to have everything around them be perfect for them to succeed.

The difference is the Jets were gave up picks to move up to #4 overall to draft the guy.

If I'm drafting a QB at #4, I'd rather it not be a QB with huge question marks surrounding him.

I can understand that reasoning.

I like how you avoided the Freeman topic though.

[KCStud]

Originally Posted by boltaneer

I can understand that reasoning.

I like how you avoided the Freeman topic though.

There were actually a ton of Chiefs fans who wanted Freeman because he is from Kansas City. It would have been an epic reach though. Bigger reach than Tyson Jackson.

I'm not so sure Freeman is even going to be an above average QB. Not from what I've seen.

As for Dalton, he's an incomplete product too. A top 10 defense, decent OL, a few really good weapons, and the 4th easiest schedule in the league made him look really good last year. I doubt he is going to be a franchise QB this year.

[boltaneer]

Oh, it's way too early to tell with those two. I'd say the arrow is pointing up for them though.

Can't say the same for Cassel.

[DENVERDUI55]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Sanchez is nowhere near worth the 4th overall pick. Not anywhere near it. And while Tyson Jackson isn't either, his position is nowhere near as a determining factor as Sanchez' is.

Sanchez is essentially the same QB as Cassel. They're QB's that have to have everything around them be perfect for them to succeed.

The difference is the Jets were gave up picks to move up to #4 overall to draft the guy.

If I'm drafting a QB at #4, I'd rather it not be a QB with huge question marks surrounding him.

Sanchez at 5 is a lot worse than Jackson at 3. Sanchez been to couple AFC championship games and Jackson well he has done nothing for what you were expecting from #3 pick.

[KCStud]

Originally Posted by boltaneer

Oh, it's way too early to tell with those two. I'd say the arrow is pointing up for them though.

Can't say the same for Cassel.

I agree. This is Cassel's last chance and everyone knows it.


This may be Cassel’s last chance to prove himself
This season may be QB’s one last chance to to silence vocal critics.
BY KENT BABB
The Kansas City Star

ST. JOSEPH -- Matt Cassel hears it, and even though he says he doesn’t listen, the sounds of discontent are growing too loud now for even Cassel to ignore.

He’s beginning his fourth season as the Chiefs’ starting quarterback, and he knows what you think about him. If he was delusional or comfortable in a warm blanket of denial, he found out the hard way July 8, when the only discernible greeting for Cassel during a celebrity softball game during All-Star week was a loud chorus of boos.

“Hey, it is what it is, man,” he told me a few days ago. “You play this position; you’re going to take your lumps, and it’s not something that bugs me. It’s not something that I let get to me. You’ve got to be strong when you play this position.”

Here are a few facts about Cassel, whether you choose to believe them or not: He’s not as bad as the vocal majority has indicated this offseason. He has certainly not shown an ability to be an elite quarterback, and it’s debatable that he’s even a good one. But he’s not close to the trainwreck that popular opinion seems to now suggest.

He has been impressive so far in training camp, and it’s clear that, yes, he is miles ahead of Brady Quinn and Ricky Stanzi. Cassel, 30, is a middle-of-the-NFL starter with a skill set that, if all goes well around him, will allow the Chiefs to reach the playoffs and maybe win a game or two. Cassel’s team might not win because of him this season, but they won’t lose because of him, either. If the Chiefs struggle in 2012, he’ll face plenty of blame — but the real breakdowns will have come at other positions.

The other fact is that, as Cassel’s popularity deteriorates as the months pass since his Pro Bowl season in 2010, he has done himself few favors to quiet the critics. The thing that matters most is wins, and as the Chiefs’ starter he is 18-22 in three regular seasons and with 19 more touchdowns than interceptions. But perception counts, too.

Cassel’s two biggest mistakes, if you can call them that, are things beyond his control. Last year a hand injury ended his season after a mediocre nine starts, pushing Tyler Palko into the starting lineup and soiling a season that otherwise contained hope. Cassel later seemed more like chopped liver after Kyle Orton went 2-1 to close the season, a short time before the Chiefs again pledged their allegiance to Cassel and allowed Orton to sign with Dallas.

Not only that, but after more than three years here, Cassel still isn’t seen as “our” quarterback. General manager Scott Pioli has stuck with Cassel, whom the Patriots drafted in the seventh round in 2005, and avoided bringing in or retaining real competition for the starting job. It’s either in an effort to justify the legend of that brilliant Pioli mind we have been hearing about for so long, or because the Chiefs are still scared to draft a first-round quarterback 29 years after Todd Blackledge was selected and then became a bust.

There’s no doubt that there’s enormous risk involved in drafting a quarterback in the early rounds, and the Chiefs had other issues facing them in recent years. But the team just has to get it in its mind that it’s a risky but necessary part of building a Super Bowl contender. This city has been force-fed free-agent and traded-for passers for more than a generation, and other than reaching the AFC title game with a rented Joe Montana in 1994, it has been more than a generation since Chiefs fans have had a home-grown quarterback to embrace as their own.

When Miami took Ryan Tannehill with the eighth overall draft pick in April, the Chiefs became the NFL team that has gone the longest without selecting a quarterback in the first round. That’s a statistic almost as embarrassing as having gone 18 seasons without a playoff victory. Yet the clock keeps ticking, the calendar keeps turning, and the Chiefs refuse to embrace a fact most successful franchises see as obvious: You just don’t win big without drafting and developing your own quarterback.

So when the Chiefs traded a second-round pick in 2009 for Cassel and aging linebacker Mike Vrabel, Cassel was seen by many as just the latest placeholder until the team gathers its nerve and selects a quarterback with its top pick. Cassel also represented an additional face of the New England invasion, and it didn’t help that he showed only a bland, watered-down version of his personality in his first two years with the Chiefs.

In private, Cassel is a charming, funny, charismatic person who’s tough to dislike. You want a driven, optimistic man like him to succeed. In public, though, he has often been monotone and bland, and when he had a chance to forge a relationship with local fans, he instead seemed like a robot. He has lightened up the last two years, but at that point he was already seen as a stepchild.

“You can’t let it get to you,” said Cassel, who’s in the fourth year of a six-year contract. “The minute you let it start getting to you, it takes away from what you’re doing on the field and your production.”

The Chiefs have done a nice job surrounding Cassel with talented players, and the pieces are there for a march toward the playoffs. Added to his own ability and commitment — he spent much of the offseason working with second-year receiver Jon Baldwin, and it has shown so far in camp — there’s a good possibility that Cassel could quiet the critics, even if temporarily, and have a season that looks similar to 2010.

But if he doesn’t, and he again struggles, the Chiefs must look to the future and select a quarterback early in next year’s draft, even if that means they’ll take a step back in 2013. That’s the problem the team now faces, after three years of being too loyal to Cassel. That’s not his fault, either, but he’ll shoulder the responsibility.

Despite what he says when the cameras are rolling, Cassel thinks about it. How could he not?

“I would love nothing more than to go out there,” he said, “win for our fans, win for Arrowhead and get that thing rocking and rolling, going in the right direction and hear nothing but cheers every single time I go out.”

Like it or not, Cassel has earned a little more patience. He has earned a chance. But make no mistake: This season has to be his last chance.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/07/30...#storylink=cpy

[KCStud]

Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55

Sanchez at 5 is a lot worse than Jackson at 3. Sanchez been to couple AFC championship games and Jackson well he has done nothing for what you were expecting from #3 pick.

Riding on the coat tails of one of the best talented teams in the league. Jackson may not live up to the #3 overall pick status, but let's not act like Sanchez is living up to his either.
He's not taking that team to a SB.

[boltaneer]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Riding on the coat tails of one of the best talented teams in the league. Jackson may not live up to the #3 overall pick status, but let's not act like Sanchez is living up to his either.

He's not taking that team to a SB.

Probably not (with Tebow in town now) but he came close twice already in three years.

[DENVERDUI55]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Riding on the coat tails of one of the best talented teams in the league. Jackson may not live up to the #3 overall pick status, but let's not act like Sanchez is living up to his either.
He's not taking that team to a SB.

Sanchez isn't but he hasn't been near the bust that Jackson has been.

[mwill07]

Originally Posted by KCStud

...

In Kansas City, Dick Vermeil had the worst defensive coordinator in NFL history (Greg Robinson) and it showed. The Chiefs were completely one sided.
...

wat?

Greg Robinson was the DC for two superbowl championship teams.
wiki:

Robinson's Bronco defense played superbly during the 1998 playoff run. The Broncos defense held the Miami Dolphins scoreless in the divisional playoffs, allowed only a touchdown as a result of a fumble on the one yard line against the New York Jets in the AFC Championship Game, and then allowed a single touchdown to the Atlanta Falcons in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl after the outcome was secure.

I was no Robinson fan, just pointing out that a Robinson defense + dominant, explosive offense = one of the greatest teams ever assembled.