The oakland raiders suck!

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by Irish Stout

This explains it:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?...e=&playerFour=

Okay a Guy coming off his couch week 7, NOt knowing the offense, The players, and not having his top running back to lean on. Was better than your QB. (it's funny but I don't remember you or any bronco fan feeling that way last year)

You forget the fact that the Bronco were the top rushing team largely because of that QB, Sure wasn't the talent they have at RB. More garbage.

Now your counting On a 36 year old QB, with four neck surgeries , who didn't play at all in 2011, has lesser weapons than he used to working with. Now he going to elevate those WR to a new level. Sing along When you wish upon a star.............

When it's all said and done ,you just might wish you had that other Qb leading you. As a Raider fan, I'm Glad Tebow is gone. Might not have be a NFL caliber Qb but he was one tough SOB to play against.

[Irish Stout]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Okay that is what we call common sense, something Bronco fans don't have.

No it isn't. You've made extremely stupid assumptions at every turn. You've posted numbers from your WRs to our WRs to make your point, when those numbers show relatively comparable numbers, except for the TD department. Our WR numbers from last year were slightly lower and we showed why by simply putting up Tim Tebow's passing game for your inspection. Less attempts than Palmer in more starts. A lower completion percentage. Less passes on target. Shorter passes than Palmer. As bad as Palmer was with his 16 Ints... Tebows accuracy was often worse and he often threw it out just to get out of the play. Less opportunity for WRs. Watch replays and you can see it.

You've come up with some sloppy ass argument that Tebow's poor throwing and running around behind the line of scrimmage somehow made our WRs better than they will be under Manning. That is the opposite of common sense.

Can't wait till week four when the raiders come away with another victory in our home away from home.(when was the last time the Bronco's beat the Raider's at home)

Now this is smack talk that makes sense. We haven't won at home against you guys in like 5 years (September 16, 2007). That is rough. Although, in that stretch, we've beaten you at home pretty handily as well. But, you've had the upperhand the past 5 years. Division rivalry games are always the toughest, even when the division is piss poor.

[Irish Stout]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Okay a Guy coming off his couch week 7, NOt knowing the offense, The players, and not having his top running back to lean on. Was better than your QB. (it's funny but I don't remember you or any bronco fan feeling that way last year)

You forget the fact that the Bronco were the top rushing team largely because of that QB, Sure wasn't the talent they have at RB. More garbage.

Now your counting On a 36 year old QB, with four neck surgeries , who didn't play at all in 2011, has lesser weapons than he used to working with. Now he going to elevate those WR to a new level. Sing along When you wish upon a star.............

When it's all said and done ,you just might wish you had that other Qb leading you. As a Raider fan, I'm Glad Tebow is gone. Might not have be a NFL caliber Qb but he was one tough SOB to play against.

I'd take Tebow over Palmer. Even if Palmer is a more accurate passer and throws the ball more than Tebow. Never said he was better than Tebow. Another bad assumption. Just said he is more of a passer than Tebow.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Again judging a player on his TD total is assine. I used the perfect example- Plaxico Burress as why that is the least important stats for a wr. Also a Wr catches a bomb inside the 10. You have a rb that can get it in the endzone. Are you going to take a chance putting it up(turnover) or pounding the rock.

Your Wr corp is utter garbage and not even Peyton manning going to change that fact.
You don't think Tebow (a big part of the running game) defenses weren't cheating up more defenders to defend that. That doesn't open up the passing game when you elect to surprise them and throw it.

Okay that is what we call common sense, something Bronco fans don't have.

Can't wait till week four when the raiders come away with another victory in our home away from home.(when was the last time the Bronco's beat the Raider's at home)

Please Faider fan, don't try calling someone else out for common sense as you have proven you are the one wishing upon a star with all your fantasy ideas for your team. Please show me more than 1 expert that states that the Broncos WRs or offense will not improve with Manning. It seems you are the only one with that idea. So, should we go by common sense and the masses or listen to the one myopic fan of a division rival?

Get real dude. You are pumping up your team to high expectations that they haven't had in years and dumping down the division winners.

[Bronco Rob]

Originally Posted by Irish Stout

I'd take Tebow over Palmer. Even if Palmer is a more accurate passer and throws the ball more than Tebow. Never said he was better than Tebow. Another bad assumption. Just said he is more of a passer than Tebow.

Funny Tebow did what Palmer has been unable to do in 106 career starts and that's win a playoff game

[barryr]

Seriously, a raider fan trying to state Palmer is better than Manning? Manning in a wheelchair would still top Palmer. Get to reality. Palmer has been to the playoffs only twice in 9 years in the NFL while Manning has been almost every year and mind you how bad that Colt franchise was right before he got there.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

Please Faider fan, don't try calling someone else out for common sense as you have proven you are the one wishing upon a star with all your fantasy ideas for your team. Please show me more than 1 expert that states that the Broncos WRs or offense will not improve with Manning. It seems you are the only one with that idea. So, should we go by common sense and the masses or listen to the one myopic fan of a division rival?

Get real dude. You are pumping up your team to high expectations that they haven't had in years and dumping down the division winners.

Didn't you hear? Tebow made the receivers look better than they are. And Manning will all his throwing ability will reveal that they are terrible.

[Bronco Rob]

Tamme, Dreesen, Stokley, Caldwell Decker & Thomas should suffice. Chris Carter himself said he's looking for Decker to have a break out season. Peyton Manning has gone on record saying that Demaryius Thomas is "the biggest and fastest wide receiver he's ever thrown to." You know the guy that caught the 80 yard touchdown in OT out running Ike Taylor who ran a sub 4.3 at the combine.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by Irish Stout

No it isn't. You've made extremely stupid assumptions at every turn. You've posted numbers from your WRs to our WRs to make your point, when those numbers show relatively comparable numbers, except for the TD department. Our WR numbers from last year were slightly lower and we showed why by simply putting up Tim Tebow's passing game for your inspection. Less attempts than Palmer in more starts. A lower completion percentage. Less passes on target. Shorter passes than Palmer. As bad as Palmer was with his 16 Ints... Tebows accuracy was often worse and he often threw it out just to get out of the play. Less opportunity for WRs. Watch replays and you can see it.

You've come up with some sloppy ass argument that Tebow's poor throwing and running around behind the line of scrimmage somehow made our WRs better than they will be under Manning. That is the opposite of common sense.



Now this is smack talk that makes sense. We haven't won at home against you guys in like 5 years (September 16, 2007). That is rough. Although, in that stretch, we've beaten you at home pretty handily as well. But, you've had the upperhand the past 5 years. Division rivalry games are always the toughest, even when the division is piss poor.

Lets look at the numbers. The Raiders threw the football 95 more times than the Broncos. Your making like the Raiders offense is the packers or patriots offense- who are predominately a passing team. The Raiders are a run first team on offense, just like the Broncos.

The Broncos ran it 80 more times than the Raiders. The reason with M bush the only RB healthy he worn down as the season went on. The last two months Raiders didn't have a running game. That put more on the passing game. Still finished 7th in rushing with the Running game a non factor the last two months.


There isn't much of a difference in attempts to make a big difference in the Wr numbers. (that your trying to make it out to be.)

Here is my point . Tim Tebow and the running game success made it easier to be successful in the passing game as the defense put more defenders up to take away the threat that Tim Tebow was. That when you finally did throw it there was less defenders in pass coverage. (same arguement I had with Jet fan why M sanchez numbers were better in the playoffs despite him being a lousy Qb in the regular season. It wasn't because he was a big game performer, but because no team respected him. They sold out to stop the run and when you do that as a defense, you eventually get burned in the passing game sometimes.


Just like you don't think not having DMC as his running back didn't hurt Carson palmer and the Wr numbers. The more defenders that have to come up in the box to defend the run, that makes it easier for the Qb and the Wr to exploit that secondary. M Bush isn't any where close to the Rb as DMC.

Let just say I think your trying to make excuses why your receiver numbers aren't a as good as the Raiders. We will see now that you have Peyton manning if they are any better. If the passing attempts are relatively the same.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Didn't you hear? Tebow made the receivers look better than they are. And Manning will all his throwing ability will reveal that they are terrible.

See when you assume you make an ass out of your self. Let see that QB who 36 years old, with four major neck surgeries(not like minor knee surgery) , didn't play at all in 2011, doesn't have anywhere the Oline or the weapons he had with his old team.

Let see him take a hit(every time he throws it expect someone to hit him. (the Troy Aikman/ Bret Favre treatment at the end of their career) Sooner or later expect that to take a toll on his body. You really think Bronco running game is anywhere near number 1 -without Tebow.

Your assuming this is Peyton manning in his prime years. The Broncos gave up what 42 sacks last year. What changes have they made to that Oline. What is the over and under on games, Peyton manning plays in next year.
Can Hanie take those Bronco wr to the next level. Than what will you be saying there. More excuses.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by Bronco Rob

Tamme, Dreesen, Stokley, Caldwell Decker & Thomas should suffice. Chris Carter himself said he's looking for Decker to have a break out season. Peyton Manning has gone on record saying that Demaryius Thomas is "the biggest and fastest wide receiver he's ever thrown to." You know the guy that caught the 80 yard touchdown in OT out running Ike Taylor who ran a sub 4.3 at the combine.

Tamme, Dreesen, Stokley, Caldwell, Decker and Thomas will make Peyton manning regret he listen to horse tooth Elway and came to Denver. He was sold a bag of crap.

Donovan Mcnabb career in Washington will look more successful, than Peyton Manning in Denver. When it all said and done.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by barryr

Seriously, a raider fan trying to state Palmer is better than Manning? Manning in a wheelchair would still top Palmer. Get to reality. Palmer has been to the playoffs only twice in 9 years in the NFL while Manning has been almost every year and mind you how bad that Colt franchise was right before he got there.

You surround a Qb with unbelievable talent like Carson palmer has with the Raiders, and you can walk away with league MVP like R gannon did. Don't think you would say R gannon was the best Qb in the league at that time.


How did steve Young do in tampbay. Did he look like a hall of famer he was with the 49ers talent.

[barryr]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Tamme, Dreesen, Stokley, Caldwell, Decker and Thomas will make Peyton manning regret he listen to horse tooth Elway and came to Denver. He was sold a bag of crap.

Donovan Mcnabb career in Washington will look more successful, than Peyton Manning in Denver. When it all said and done.

Um, yeah, while the Raiders are just loaded at that position

[barryr]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

You surround a Qb with unbelievable talent like Carson palmer has with the Raiders, and you can walk away with league MVP like R gannon did. Don't think you would say R gannon was the best Qb in the league at that time.


How did steve Young do in tampbay. Did he look like a hall of famer he was with the 49ers talent.

Yeah, the Raiders have a bunch of all pros

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by barryr

Um, yeah, while the Raiders are just loaded at that position

Raiders will be a top five offense in football inj 2012. The Bronco offense with manning in his prime, can't take that offense that high. That is a fact.

Now for all we know he might never be Peyton manning again(the franchise caliber QB). We won't know that till we see him take a hit. The more hits he takes and eventually they will take their toll on his aging body.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by barryr

Yeah, the Raiders have a bunch of all pros

Without a doubt they have way more talent than the Broncos do on offense. it's not even close.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

You surround a Qb with unbelievable talent like Carson palmer has with the Raiders, and you can walk away with league MVP like R gannon did. Don't think you would say R gannon was the best Qb in the league at that time.


How did steve Young do in tampbay. Did he look like a hall of famer he was with the 49ers talent.

I was wondering how long it would take for you to start waxing nostalgic.

And the reason Steve Young wasn't awesome out of the gate is because he was essentially Tim Tebow raw. I'm a BYU fan and Robbie Bosco was a more polished QB than Young. However his athleticism and natural accuracy gave him a high ceiling. Talent around him had nothing to do with it. He needed to grow into a passing QB.

Carson Palmer had a good Chad Johnson, TJ Houshmandzadeh in his prime and Rudi Johnson averaging 12 TD's a year and 1500 yards rushing (because he actually played a full season) and the best he could muster was .500 football with one post-season appearance in his entire time there.

Carson Palmer is average. And now he's old and average. You want to talk about Manning getting old, at least he was good the last season he played. You're pinning all your hopes on 33 year old QB suddenly being the guy he was six years ago because you have RB made of glass, "a whole bunch o' potential!" at receiver and Tight End, and the pipe dream that a scheme change on defense, after losing defensive talent is going to polish your turd of a defense into something even average.

Homer on, bro.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by Irish Stout

I'd take Tebow over Palmer. Even if Palmer is a more accurate passer and throws the ball more than Tebow. Never said he was better than Tebow. Another bad assumption. Just said he is more of a passer than Tebow.

Well right there you have to question your Football Iq. < Stepping back slowly away from a deranged person> Okay Tebow a better Qb. Don't shoot me.

[barryr]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Raiders will be a top five offense in football inj 2012. The Bronco offense with manning in his prime, can't take that offense that high. That is a fact.

Now for all we know he might never be Peyton manning again(the franchise caliber QB). We won't know that till we see him take a hit. The more hits he takes and eventually they will take their toll on his aging body.

Reality check: Palmer in his prime wasn't better than Manning is right now. Top 5 offense? I believe top 5 in penalties again. But it's the offseason where raider fans are out the most, then suddenly disappear during the season. I wonder why?

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

I was wondering how long it would take for you to start waxing nostalgic.

And the reason Steve Young wasn't awesome out of the gate is because he was essentially Tim Tebow raw. I'm a BYU fan and Robbie Bosco was a more polished QB than Young. However his athleticism and natural accuracy gave him a high ceiling. Talent around him had nothing to do with it. He needed to grow into a passing QB.

Carson Palmer had a good Chad Johnson, TJ Houshmandzadeh in his prime and Rudi Johnson averaging 12 TD's a year and 1500 yards rushing (because he actually played a full season) and the best he could muster was .500 football with one post-season appearance in his entire time there.

Carson Palmer is average. And now he's old and average. You want to talk about Manning getting old, at least he was good the last season he played. You're pinning all your hopes on 33 year old QB suddenly being the guy he was six years ago because you have RB made of glass, "a whole bunch o' potential!" at receiver and Tight End, and the pipe dream that a scheme change on defense, after losing defensive talent is going to polish your turd of a defense into something even average.

Homer on, bro.

Were judging the Qb next season, not over their careers. I will take the Guy three years younger, without the four neck sugeries and who played last year.
You might as well start hyping Hanie as he capable of leading you to the promise land . (Right)

Again how many Sacks did Bronco's oline give up last year, and how did they upgrade that oline.

Yea but I'm the homer.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by barryr

Reality check: Palmer in his prime wasn't better than Manning is right now. Top 5 offense? I believe top 5 in penalties again. But it's the offseason where raider fans are out the most, then suddenly disappear during the season. I wonder why?

Okay Mrs Cleo. Can i get the lottery numbers for this week . Since you can see in the future. Do you not understand how stupid the statement you just made.

[Rabb]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Were judging the Qb next season, not over their careers. I will take the Guy three years younger, without the four neck sugeries and who played last year.
You might as well start hyping Hanie as he capable of leading you to the promise land . (Right)

Again how many Sacks did Bronco's oline give up last year, and how did they upgrade that oline.

Yea but I'm the homer.

So we are judging them next season, not over their careers....but it's ok to use their age and surgical history as an argument?

You really cannot make this **** up, kudos.

[Bacillus Anthracis]

Originally Posted by barryr

Um, yeah, while the Raiders are just loaded at that position

Actually, we are loaded at the WR position. I'd take the Raiders starting 3 over almost any other in the league. The oldest wideout we have is Bey and he came into his own last season, despite the odd misperception of that around here. As a rookie Denarius Moore played really well, and Jacoby Ford is playmaker too. Each one of those guys can reach full speed in a couple of steps and be gone.

If these guys don't get injured (and every fan looks at it from that POV before thes season starts), opposing D-coordinators are going to have nightmares.

As for Palmer, this is make or break for him. He still has gas in the tank in that he can still make every throw on the field. It's his decision making process that's in question, not his physical abilities. So we'll see how that goes.

I genuinely don't understand the casual dismissal of the capabilties of the Raider offense around here. A much easier target is the defense. That's where our problems were last year and the year before that and the year before that, etc. We're thin in the d-backfield and LB corps and have marginal and inexperienced talent at nearly all of those positions.

If I were an opposing fan my take on Oakland would be that sure, the offense is dangerous, but not when they're sitting on the bench while your defense is giving up 10+ play drives for touchdowns.

[barryr]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Okay Mrs Cleo. Can i get the lottery numbers for this week . Since you can see in the future. Do you not understand how stupid the statement you just made.

That's rich considering all the stupid ones you have made in this thread alone

[barryr]

Originally Posted by Bacillus Anthracis

Actually, we are loaded at the WR position. I'd take the Raiders starting 3 over almost any other in the league. The oldest wideout we have is Bey and he came into his own last season, despite the odd misperception of that around here. As a rookie Denarius Moore played really well, and Jacoby Ford is playmaker too. Each one of those guys can reach full speed in a couple of steps and be gone.

If these guys don't get injured (and every fan looks at it from that POV before thes season starts), opposing D-coordinators are going to have nightmares.

As for Palmer, this is make or break for him. He still has gas in the tank in that he can still make every throw on the field. It's his decision making process that's in question, not his physical abilities. So we'll see how that goes.

I genuinely don't understand the casual dismissal of the capabilties of the Raider offense around here. A much easier target is the defense. That's where our problems were last year and the year before that and the year before that, etc. We're thin in the d-backfield and LB corps and have marginal and inexperienced talent at nearly all of those positions.

If I were an opposing fan my take on Oakland would be that sure, the offense is dangerous, but not when they're sitting on the bench while your defense is giving up 10+ play drives for touchdowns.

The Broncos defense last year was hardly the tops, but the Raider offense didn't exactly score a ton against it. Can Ford, who is small, stay healthy? Didn't last year. The Raiders also do not have a proven receiver at TE either, relying on hope.

I stated on a post that Manning will enjoy going up against that Raider secondary, which is very weak IMO