Breaking down the AFC West

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by Houshyamama

The denial in this thread is ridiculous. The road to the AFC West crown goes through Denver. KCDud is going to end up VERY disappointed and I for one will bathe in his tears.

Denver has the worst talent in the division, and Peyton Manning even in his prime , wouldn't be able to hide that fact. It going to be so great with these Denver fan unrealistic high expectations fore the 2012 season. It going to feel so good when it all crumbles around them. last place in the division)

Would even be sweeter IF Tebow becomes Jet starting Qb , and takes that team to the Playoffs.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

I love the comment "Denver was 4-12 going into last year." Didn't the Chiefs go from 4-12 to 10-6 in one year? I think adding Peyton Manning to an 8-8 team can do better.

On paper you were an 8-8. Everything went right for the Broncos in 2011. A lot of injuries in the division(Kc and raiders) and won a lot of games in strange fashion- bounce went there way. (with that you still won only eight games)

The Bronco talent is by far the weakest overall in the division(No I'm not saying they don't have top talent in certain position) Just overall talent.


Everyone in the division plays the same schedule. (tough schedule) Just two games are different. Those two games are big. Denver see the Patriot and the Texans. While everyone else get a little better matchup.

10 games will win the AFc West. I think Raiders and chiefs will both make the playoffs in 2012.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by phibacka31

Just stop... your receiving core is not great dude... not saying the broncos is but come on... add to that the broncos almost always have a top tier running game so that point is mute. Tony moecki while talented gets banged up a lot. Your defense has a solid foundation but it is not superb. O and your oline did so well keeping cassell up right when von came to town...

You really expect the Broncos to have a top running game in 2012. Tim Tebow was a big factor in that succes. Your delusional if you think it wasn't.

The Broncos have at best the third best rushing attack in the division. 1 Raiders. 2 Chiefs 3 Denver.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by KCStud

And then won 7 games with devastating injuries, meaning the core of the team is stronger than Denver's...

Without a doubt the Raiders and Chiefs have the two best talent in the division. That why I think it a two team race(Raiders- Chiefs) to see who wins the west.


The other Chargers and Denver will be batlling for last place.(not the division)

[CEH]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Denver has the worst talent in the division, and Peyton Manning even in his prime , wouldn't be able to hide that fact. It going to be so great with these Denver fan unrealistic high expectations fore the 2012 season. It going to feel so good when it all crumbles around them. last place in the division)

Would even be sweeter IF Tebow becomes Jet starting Qb , and takes that team to the Playoffs.

You mean talent like Indy last year that went 2-14 without Manning and made the playoffs every year except his rookie year with him?

OK got it. I guess all the talent left Indy when Manning went down last year

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by CEH

You mean talent like Indy last year that went 2-14 without Manning and made the playoffs every year except his rookie year with him?

OK got it. I guess all the talent left Indy when Manning went down last year

Hey your entitle to believe Manning capable of doing that, at 36 years of age with four neck surgeries . ( Didn't play in one game in 2011) Playing in a new offense, less talent at the skill position than he use to playing with, and every time he drops back to throw -someone will make sure they get a hit on him. ( see Aikman and B Favre) Eventually that going to take its toll.

JMO It will be a great year for Broncos if they win 8 games in 2012. DJ Williams and Dumberville(probably facing a suspension) missing some games. isn't going to hurt the defense.

[Drek]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Hey your entitle to believe Manning capable of doing that, at 36 years of age with four neck surgeries . ( Didn't play in one game in 2011) Playing in a new offense, less talent at the skill position than he use to playing with, and every time he drops back to throw -someone will make sure they get a hit on him. ( see Aikman and B Favre) Eventually that going to take its toll.

JMO It will be a great year for Broncos if they win 8 games in 2012. DJ Williams and Dumberville(probably facing a suspension) missing some games. isn't going to hurt the defense.

The charges look likely to be completely dismissed on Doom. At that point there is no cause for a suspension. He likely won't miss a game of pre-season, let alone a regular season game.

DJ is solid but unspectacular. He isn't a major loss in any way.

As for Manning's weapons:
In 2010 the Colts were an elite offense and made it to the Super Bowl. Manning relied heavily on an aging Wayne, two guys everyone agrees lived off of Manning's ability to coach them up (Garcon and Collie), and after losing Dallas Clark early in the season Jacob Tamme emerged as a major target at the TE position. The loss of Clark took away the versatility of his 12 personnel sets as well, Manning's favorite base to work out of. His running backs were the elite tandem of Addai and Brown.

Now in Denver he's got the TE he did so well with in 2010 (Tamme) along with a far better #2 (Dreeeeessssseeeeen), and a #3 who has real receiving potential (Julius Thomas). Better TE corps all around than what he actually played within 2010.

At WR both Decker and Thomas are more talented than Garcon or Collie. One of them needs to step up and be the reliable weapon that Reggie Wayne has been for Manning, but from a raw tools standpoint Decker is a great comp (excellent short range quickness, tight routes, works great in the short to intermediate area) not to mention bigger and stronger. Thomas gives Manning the first truly elite speed threat he's had since Harrison got done, while Thomas is also another bigger, stronger option than what Manning has ever had before.

At RB the Broncos have McGahee, a far more proven and consistent runner than anyone Manning had in Indy since James left. Behind him is Moreno who when healthy had a first two years every bit the equal of Addai's first two, in a far worse offense in nearly every way. Then after that is Ronnie Hillman who has real X factor potential at the RB spot, giving far better depth than Indy ever offered Manning.

The OL is obviously better at every position except C over what Manning played with in 2010. The OL is also young and improving year to year even without Manning.

Also, Manning isn't changing offenses, he's bringing his offense with him, while Fox and Magazu keep the power running game they built for 12 personnel as the season went on in tact.

As for overall team talent, I'd put the Broncos roster up against anyone's in the division. There are a lot of talented players on this roster, and Denver clearly has the divisional market on playmakers on either side of the ball cornered.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by KCStud

The amount of fail coming from you in this thread is fantastic.

Btw KC went 4-12 3 years ago numbnutz

he never said that happened last year, he said kc went from 4-12 to 10-6 in ONE YEAR.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Without a doubt the Raiders and Chiefs have the two best talent in the division. That why I think it a two team race(Raiders- Chiefs) to see who wins the west.


The other Chargers and Denver will be batlling for last place.(not the division)

[uplink]

The chefs are going to have a tough defense this year maybe the best unit in the division offense or defense. If Cassel plays well I could see them taking the division, but that won't happen.

[Swedish Extrovert]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Hey your entitle to believe Manning capable of doing that, at 36 years of age with four neck surgeries . ( Didn't play in one game in 2011) Playing in a new offense, less talent at the skill position than he use to playing with, and every time he drops back to throw -someone will make sure they get a hit on him. ( see Aikman and B Favre) Eventually that going to take its toll.

JMO It will be a great year for Broncos if they win 8 games in 2012. DJ Williams and Dumberville(probably facing a suspension) missing some games. isn't going to hurt the defense.

Logical fallacy much? The Broncos and the Colts both did not have Manning last year. The Broncos went to the second round of the playoffs. The Colts got the 1st pick in the draft. Now the Broncos have Manning.

Also, work on your subject-verb agreement a little bit, dude. I'm sure most 3rd graders could conclude that the loss of two good players would, in fact, hurt a defense.

[underrated29]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Denver has the worst talent in the division, and Peyton Manning even in his prime , wouldn't be able to hide that fact. It going to be so great with these Denver fan unrealistic high expectations fore the 2012 season. It going to feel so good when it all crumbles around them. last place in the division)

Would even be sweeter IF Tebow becomes Jet starting Qb , and takes that team to the Playoffs.

Is there someway to sticky this post or maybe put it in this raider guys sig. Making him see his own post after we are going for title and his team is not...

Please mods. This needs to be done.

[underrated29]

Originally Posted by E_Rox

The shot of the whole thread and goes completely unnoticed?

Sly, very sly.

I was cracking up when i put it in there

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by Mightysmurf

Logical fallacy much? The Broncos and the Colts both did not have Manning last year. The Broncos went to the second round of the playoffs. The Colts got the 1st pick in the draft. Now the Broncos have Manning.

Also, work on your subject-verb agreement a little bit, dude. I'm sure most 3rd graders could conclude that the loss of two good players would, in fact, hurt a defense.

The Broncos were lucky that both the Chiefs and Raiders had injuries last year, and the Broncos got every kind of Break( Dolphin, Jet , Bears etc) You really think you get those kind of breaks every year.

Here is the clincher with all that you still only finished 8-8.
Peyton Manning isn't improving the WR, the RB, or the Oline that gave up 42 sacks in a team that was all run.
Again only team that should be any competition for the Raiders is the chiefs.(two team race for the division).


BTw The funniest part the Bronco fans think they have a good defense. It's garbage. The Raiders offense put up over 400 yards on that tough defense(cough cough). That was with a QB just off his couch, didn't know the offense, the plays , and didn't have any timing down with his wr corps..

Now imagine what a guy who more comfortable with the offense and his wr corp can do. Yea that Bronco defense scares me- not.

[CEH]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Hey your entitle to believe Manning capable of doing that, at 36 years of age with four neck surgeries . ( Didn't play in one game in 2011) Playing in a new offense, less talent at the skill position than he use to playing with, and every time he drops back to throw -someone will make sure they get a hit on him. ( see Aikman and B Favre) Eventually that going to take its toll.

JMO It will be a great year for Broncos if they win 8 games in 2012. DJ Williams and Dumberville(probably facing a suspension) missing some games. isn't going to hurt the defense.

The factor you are not accounting for is the hurry up at altitude. There is no way you can prepare within the week for the altitude let alone one that is running in hurry up mode. This could be the one piece of the Manning offense many are underestimating

We shall see

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by CEH

The factor you are not accounting for is the hurry up at altitude. There is no way you can prepare within the week for the altitude let alone one that is running in hurry up mode. This could be the one piece of the Manning offense many are underestimating

We shall see

When was the last time raiders lost in Denver.(okay I know it doesn't apply to your point, just had to get that little zinger in there) Have the raiders lost to the Broncos since you went to the new stadium.

How effective is the hurry up going to be when Peyton manning doesn't have the same chemistry with the Bronco receivers, he had with the Colts wr.
Raiders have safeties that can easily take out the Bronco Te's.


The Broncos defense is not stopping the Raiders offense . Too much on offense for the Bronco defense to handle. Neither of the Broncos two impact players (Doom and V miller) scare me. Raiders exploit the undersized doom every time in the running game.

[Kaylore]

Champ Bailey owns Carson Palmer. Absolutely owns him.

[broncocalijohn]

Yeah, what happens when McFadden is sidelined for the umpteenth time, inexperienced TE trying to get open and Heyward-Bey dropping balls left and right? Good luck with the optimism. I wonder what you posted on your Raider sites every year since your SB run. All Super Bowl talk and nothing but 11 or more losses. Then of course comes the excuses. You are a typical, myopic Raiders fan. You bring out the stereotype to a "T". Congratulations.

BTW, not sure when Denver last beat the Faiders in Denver but I do remember Shanahan calling the timout to kicker the druggie and it worked. You b****es cried "He cheated! BS play!" Then you guys pull it off with the same play the very next week and not one peep from the Faider crowd.

[DontBeMessin]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

The Oakland Raiders
Last season: 8-8

Offseason Losses: QB Jason Campbell, RB Michael Bush, WR Chaz Schilens, TE Kevin Boss, OT Stephon Heyer, G Bruce Campbell, C Samson Satele, DE/OLB Kamerion Wimbley, DE Trevor Scott, DE Jarvis Moss, DE Quentin Groves, DT John Henderson, ILB Darryl Blackstock, CB Stanford Routt, CB Chris Johnson, CB Lito Sheppard.

Veteran Additions: QB Matt Leinart, RB Mike Goodson, FB Owen Schmitt, G Mike Brisiel, DE Dave Tollefson, OLB Philip Wheeler, CB Shawntae Spencer, CB Ronald Bartell, CB Patrick Lee, HC Dennis Allen.

Draft Picks:

Round 3: Tony Bergstrom OT Utard
Round 4: Miles Burris OLB San Diego St.
Round 5: Jack Crowford DE Penn St.
Round 5: Juron Criner WR Arizona
Round 6: Christo Bilukidi DE Georgia St.
Round 7: Nathan Stupar OLB Penn St.

Schedule:
Sept. 10 San Diego Chargers (Mon.) 10:15 p.m.
Sept. 16 at Miami Dolphins 4:15 p.m.
Sept. 23 Pittsburgh Steelers 4:15 p.m.
Sept. 30 at Denver Broncos 4:05 p.m.
Oct. 7 BYE
Oct. 14 at Atlanta Falcons 1 p.m.
Oct. 21 Jacksonville Jaguars 4:15 p.m.
Oct. 28 at Kansas City Chiefs 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 4 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 11 at Baltimore Ravens 1 p.m.
Nov. 18 New Orleans Saints 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 25 at Cincinnati Bengals 1 p.m.
Dec. 2 Cleveland Browns 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 6 Denver Broncos (Thurs.) 8:20 p.m.
Dec. 16 Kansas City Chiefs 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 23 at Carolina Panthers 1 p.m.
Dec. 30 at San Diego Chargers 4:15 p.m.

Analysis: Oakland was part of the three way tie between the Broncos and Chargers that could have won the division. Injuries and player transitions were a big reason the offense stumbled. The defense falling to 29th in the league didn’t help either. Predictably, they are firing their coach (again) and signed a really young replacement with little experience in Dennis Allen, who two years ago was a secondary coach and came from a team he coached to 20th in defense and 24th in scoring (which admittedly was a step forward), Outside of Juron Criner and Tony Bergstrom, their draft class is too small to expect any kind of immediate help there. Palmer is a big factor. If he improves, he could help them through a rough schedule that includes some horrible back-and-forth to the East Coast in the middle of the season. More likely, he will be the same Carson Palmer that we’ve seen for several years: Moments of brilliance in an overall mediocre show. Darren McFadden will be back, which should help, but expect some fallout as Michael Bush is out, and putting more carries on a clearly fragile McFadden will not bode well for his long term reliability next seasons. Running backs don’t get more durable the more they play. Also, every coach who was part of their vaunted running game is now gone. Their defensive line took a hit with Wimbley gone, and the rest of the unit is starting to show its age, so there may be some fallout there. I do think Oakland’s receivers are underrated and there is some fantasy value at the position, especially when you consider they’re going to be throwing a lot to keep up this year.

Prediction 5-11: I think this is a transition year for the Raiders (isn’t every year?). They’ve lost too many free agents the past two years and given up too many draft picks for players with ho-hum ability to see any short-term grown. The good news for them is Al Davis is gone and they will no longer just be drafting the fastest guy in underwear at every position, so there is some hope that things will turn around, but not for several years. With a hard schedule, too many new pieces, and not very reliable ones on the roster, I don’t expect much from the Raiders this season.

You must have been on something writing this all up at 2 am… No wonder it a little ridiculous… Yea – we went 8-8 last season with our starting QB out – RB out – BOTH CB’s out and one of our Safties. And because we changed coaches – we will be worst?

How does that work?

[DontBeMessin]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Champ Bailey owns Carson Palmer. Absolutely owns him.

Chump Bailey owns nothing... Do you see my avatar? That's Porter IN DENVER and who is that behind him - walking away - sad...

Who is..

Who...

Who is that...?


CHUMP BAILEY?!?!? Nooooo..... And that's Porter? Who was Porters QB? What...? That fat kid... What was his name?

I will say this - Porter sucked - JaSuckass well - look at his name... We have McFadden and the best WR's in the AFC West... We will make Chump Bailey look his tired ass age!!!

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by DontBeMessin

You must have been on something writing this all up at 2 am… No wonder it a little ridiculous… Yea – we went 8-8 last season with our starting QB out – RB out – BOTH CB’s out and one of our Safties. And because we changed coaches – we will be worst?

How does that work?

It's very simple. You guys suck balls.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by DontBeMessin

Chump Bailey owns nothing... Do you see my avatar? That's Porter IN DENVER and who is that behind him - walking away - sad...

Who is..

Who...

Who is that...?


CHUMP BAILEY?!?!? Nooooo..... And that's Porter? Who was Porters QB? What...? That fat kid... What was his name?

I will say this - Porter sucked - JaSuckass well - look at his name... We have McFadden and the best WR's in the AFC West... We will make Chump Bailey look his tired ass age!!!

I'm not sure what that game has to do with Carson Palmer, but Bailey dominates him almost as much as he dominated Randy Moss - it's close, but Moss gets it just because he had more chances to lose against Bailey.

[oubronco]

[underrated29]

I still cannot see how the faid think they have the best wr in the division.

DHB- stone hands, getting stoned and dui. All he can do is run fast and drop balls. Not good.

Denarius Moore- Good WR, fast, can run routes and make catches. Solid Guy here.

Jacoby Ford- Another fast guy, small, easy to re-route but can catch. - Another eddie royal. Average to slightly above average.

Louis Murphy- I actually really like him, but hes always hurt, possesion wr.

Chaz Schillenz- big, strong, similar to marshall but hes always hurt. Does he even play for the raiders anymore?

The rest of the guys are all unproven or rookies not worth mentioning.


Cheifs have Bowe- who is better than any WR the raiders have and one of the best in the division, possibly a top 20 in the league.

Baldwin- Super talented diva. But he has a case of the dropsies. Not nearly as chronic, well actually he is, he is like DHB-fast and drops balls- only better.

Devon wylie- this is a rookie who is worthy of praise. Wes Welker type of guy.

Breaston-big guy, nothing fancy but solid. Id say close to chaz in terms of production availability

Bolts:

Meachum- Id take him over DHB anyday, not as fast, but he can catch, which is what a receiver does. He receives the football. He also can break tackles when he runs

Royal- Like a jacoby ford only slower, better route runner but also gets re-routed easily. About equal

M80- Malcom floyd, big fast explosive...Like DHB only he can catch but imo not all that talented. He is no Denarious but hes not that bad.

Broncos:

DT- Its between him and Bowe as the best WR in the division. DT is bigger than all of them, faster than most of them and stronger than all. He gets dinged up though and has not shown what he can do with a QB yet. More or less an unknown.

Decker- Big, strong, had a few easy drops, but only credited with 4. I know I would, but I am bias, but I have a feeling the other teams (bolts and chefs) would take him over DHB. Id say Decker is equivalent to Denarius Moore. Different type of player obviously, but number wise close.

Caldwell- Hes fast, surprised the raiders didnt draft him. I have no clue. As of now, the nod goes to DHB over caldwell. With manning I would not be surprised to see that change.

Stokley- old but still quick. Best slot guy in division, but now that age has caught up with him id say no. That would go to royal if hes there or ford, if they put him there


Then we have TEs:

Bolts- Gates and homandnoulamuanau (best set by far)
Chefs- Moeki and boss?- Solid- very solid, and proven.
broncos- tamme and dressen- solid and proven- equal to chefs, but below the chargers
Raiders- who and who? Myers and assbergers?---NOT a F'ING CHANCE!



How exactly do the raiders have the best wr in the division? Someone not an idiot raider fan explain to me, please.



PS- Here is the typical raider response....These guys have all the potential in the world, they are bigger than big and faster than fast. They leap tall buildings in a single bound and impregnant women just by looking at them.

Yes, we know, all potential means is that you can Not do something. If you could it wouldnt be potential. It would be proven, success, done, something that the raiders know nothing about yet always try to preach.

[Swedish Extrovert]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

The Broncos were lucky that both the Chiefs and Raiders had injuries last year, and the Broncos got every kind of Break( Dolphin, Jet , Bears etc) You really think you get those kind of breaks every year.

Here is the clincher with all that you still only finished 8-8.
Peyton Manning isn't improving the WR, the RB, or the Oline that gave up 42 sacks in a team that was all run.
Again only team that should be any competition for the Raiders is the chiefs.(two team race for the division).


BTw The funniest part the Bronco fans think they have a good defense. It's garbage. The Raiders offense put up over 400 yards on that tough defense(cough cough). That was with a QB just off his couch, didn't know the offense, the plays , and didn't have any timing down with his wr corps..

Now imagine what a guy who more comfortable with the offense and his wr corp can do. Yea that Bronco defense scares me- not.

. Are you implying that we've got you by the balls?