Breaking down the AFC West

[Bronco Rob]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Raiders were a top ten offense the last two years. Can you say that. Could very well be a top five offense this year. The Bronco can't as even if Manning is his old self, their talent around him isn't very good.

Your defense isn't that good. W@hen was the last time DMC didn't go off on that defense. Only reason Broncos weren't swept again last year is they lost their starting Qb and their starting RB. Raiders put out a healthy offense(M reece, J Ford, DMC) and that overrated Bronco defense not stopping it.

The raiders were 16th in scoring in 2011? How's that considered top 10 by any stretch of the imagination? You lost your leading rusher, starting tight end and center. Darren McFragile has missed as many games in four seasons as Manning has his entire career. Starting tight ends Ausberry & Myers have 34 career receptions with zero touchdowns. Moore pulled a hamstring AGAIN in shorts and t-shirts. Heyward-Bey has more drops than touchdowns.


As far as the defense goes i'll concede the lost of Bunkley and Dawkins mostly for his intangibles but other than that significant upgrades at almost every position not mention Jack Del Rio. The raiders 29th ranked defense has only gotten worse, you lost your best corner Routt, best pass rusher in Wimbley. Signed two corners that are on the wrong side of 30 that were cut be their previous team.

[oubronco]

I expect alot of this against Palmer

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

What does surgery have to do with it? Your RB is made of glass! He gets hurt every year. If anything the fact that surgery wasn't required reinforces how fragile he is.

I love after losing Wimbley and having a bunch of thirty something's on the defensive line your whole answer to the defense getting better is "scheme".

And Palmer sucks. When was his last good season? 2007?

OF Course it matters. The more surgeries you have the more it eventualy wears down a body. True or false. DMc is only 24 who had some bad breaks. (still has alot of football left) Was having a MVp type of season till he had a freak injury in 2011. (true or false)

Raiders did lose something in the pass rush with the loss of wimbley but there is no doubt they put out a better overrall defense with philip wheeler playing sslb. (that is a fact) He is an upgrade at Sslb from Wimbley.(who couldn't cover)
matt Shaughnessy is capable of getting 10 sacks(Raiders lost him week three versus Jets) to pick up the slack.

Yes scheme can make all the difference. Raiders played an outdated defensive scheme and every Qb that came to line knew what they would be in. ( they had to play it Al Davis way) That won't be the case this year.
Opposing Qbs won't have that luxury as they will play ever different type of coverage. They will blitz from everywhere while dropping guys into coverage.

Go watch Miles Burris, Kaelin Burnett, N stupar anf Mario Kurn (even though i say he ends up on Ps) and you know what Dennis allen trying to do with these lbs.

Raiders offenbse should be in the top five. They don't need for that defense to be top ten. All it has to be in the 15 range and this Raider team going to win alot of games.

Btw With the addition F Juron Criner Raidedrs red zone ofense should improve dramatically. Raiders went from 20-20 but did have problems punching it in.

Btw depends how much Raiders play 3-4 this year(eventually raiders are moving to that defense) R Seymour and Kelly would be DE's(even though allen says Kelly might play NT) Raiders have so many Young Des that they can sub for thiose two(Desmond Bryant, Jack Crawford, L Houston, Christo Bulikdi0

[oubronco]

[JLesSPE]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Wow that was weak. Go ahead and come up with some substance. You going to talk football or you can't. which one is it.

I'm gonna let you in on something. Most people aren't talking football with you because you want to talk about the Fade. They haven't been relevant since 2002 when they accidentally showed up at the super bowl and were allowed to be sacrificed to the Bucs. Everything you're spewing is speculative. So until you have something more than, "Our 8th streeng TE iz a gooder QB than Payton Manning, you guyz suck and the raiders will win the super bowl!", STFU.

[JLesSPE]

By the way, good write up Kaylore. Thanks for posting.

[Bacillus Anthracis]

Originally Posted by Bronco Rob

...we let you pick through our garbage to find your 7th head coach in 10 seasons.....

Unfortunately for us, that may be true. Personally I would rather have seen Hue Jackson get another shot while revamping our D but whatever.

I don't know how Dennis Allen is going to do. I don't know what Reggie McKenzie's plan is. Scrapping an offensive system that worked well doesn't make any sense to me. A lot of Raider fans are really hanging on McKenzie's johnson, saying he can do no wrong, but if this team doesn't get to the playoffs this year he'll be directly responsible for it.

The fact is, if last year's Raider D had just been below average (say 20th ranked or so) we could have rested our starters with two weeks left in the season. And bringing the same offense back with a competent defense would have virtually guaranteed us a playoff berth.

How you guys will do depends exclusively on Peyton Manning. The fate of most teams rides on the success of their quarterback but with you guys it's especially crucial. If he can pick up where he left off, then the rest of the AFC West will be battling it out for a wildcard. But if not, or if he gets injured, Denver's going to have a high first round draft pick in 2013.

[underrated29]

Wow, this raiders guy is a freaking dumb****.

Next- how I rank the division

Denver
Cheifs/Raiders
Raiders/Cheifs (these two teams are so close imo)
Bolts




Now, raiders guy- ask yourself these few questions:

1.- Would any team in the NFL take any raider WR over Demaryius Thomas?

2.- Would any team in the NFL take the next best wr over Erick Decker? (Be honest here, even though we know you wont)

3.- Do you really believe your offense will be better than the -Pats, Saints, Eagles, giants, steelers, lions, packers, texans, falcons, cowboys? That is 10 teams right there and do not even think about saying you have ANYONE on your roster better than any player those teams have except for DMC (who only plays 6 games a year)- SO HOW WILL YOU HAVE A TOP 5 OFFENSE!?

4.- Do you realize that all your WRs numbers are equivalent to two of our WRs numbers and we had the worst passing QB in the league throwing to them?

5.- How long have you had an extra 21st chromosome?

6.- Which team has the best set of rush LBs?

7.- which team has the best set of S?

8.- Which team has the best pass rushers?

9.- Which team has the best set of Cbs?

10.- Which team ranked last in the division for defense?

11.- Did you notice that I included each team in the AFCW on questions 6-10? (Did you know that it goes: bolts, cheifs, broncos, broncos, raiders)

Funny how the raiders make that list only as a team with the worst defense? And all you added was wheeler?




HEY- didnt your MLB try and execute someone? Your only good player? Is he going to be playing this year? He is gone, all your Cbs are gone, you best LB is gone. What exactly do the raiders have that is scary or good or even improved?

[underrated29]

Originally Posted by Bacillus Anthracis

Unfortunately for us, that may be true. Personally I would rather have seen Hue Jackson get another shot while revamping our D but whatever.

I don't know how Dennis Allen is going to do. I don't know what Reggie McKenzie's plan is. Scrapping an offensive system that worked well doesn't make any sense to me. A lot of Raider fans are really hanging on McKenzie's johnson, saying he can do no wrong, but if this team doesn't get to the playoffs this year he'll be directly responsible for it.

The fact is, if last year's Raider D had just been below average (say 20th ranked or so) we could have rested our starters with two weeks left in the season. And bringing the same offense back with a competent defense would have virtually guaranteed us a playoff berth.

How you guys will do depends exclusively on Peyton Manning. The fate of most teams rides on the success of their quarterback but with you guys it's especially crucial. If he can pick up where he left off, then the rest of the AFC West will be battling it out for a wildcard. But if not, or if he gets injured, Denver's going to have a high first round draft pick in 2013.

You sir, are an anomaly. An intelligent raiders fan. I applaud you and this reasonable, well thought out post. Your other ones werent bad either.

[vancejohnson82]

the Raiders offense in the top 5

lulz

[Flex Gunmetal]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Stop with your childish antics. Your not funny, and your just making every Bronco fan look bad. Your football IQ is as bad as my writing skills.

Every one of your posts is built around hopes and dreams. You are promising these things that are happening in your imagination. You appear frightfully stupid in the process. Please go.

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Don't quote lonestar ever again. Most of us have him on ignore. STOP.

LMAO... great post. I have not figured out the ignore thing yet but I am working on it

[KCStud]

Aside from Peyton and Decker, the Broncos offense is average. The OL problems were hidden by switching to the option and the DL has trouble stopping the run.

I don't think DEN is the clear cut favorites simply because they have Manning.

The way to beat Manning is to play good defense and run the ball.

Last year KC was 11th in total offense, 12th in points given up and 6th in pass defense without Eric Berry. There is no reason to think KC won't have a top 10 defense, especially with Romeo (who has always been able to frustrate Manning).

I think KC will return to a top 10 rushing attack as well. Last year we were middle of the pack with MCCluster and Battle. Our new OC has been very good setting up the running game. In Cleveland he unleashed Peyton Hillis in 2010. Then last year he had a great running game with Reggie Bush and a the rookie from K-State. With 2 of the best run blockers in at OT, KC should have success running the ball.

I think KC and DEN will battle it out and the last game of the season could determine who wins the division.

Of course Cassel is the question. But if he plays like he did in 2010 (27 TD's/7INT's) KC is winning the division. We'll see how likely that is though.

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by oubronco

I expect alot of this against Palmer

Darrent Williams: wouldn't it be great if he was still playing for the Broncos? He showed lots of promise in his two years.

[Cito Pelon]

Nice writeup. It's early to say, but it looks like Denver should repeat as Div champs. KC may have helped themselves quite a bit with personnel acquisitions plus getting injured players back (although two of the key ones Charles and Berry are coming off of ACL's). Crennel may turn out to be a good HC, his time in CLE I don't hold against him, he didn't have much to work with. Hell, has CLE done any better since? He has Cassel and Quinn to work with at QB, so that's not an ideal situation, but he got Hillis who can be very productive and maybe has a chip on his shoulder. Bowe? Who knows. At TE they could be set pretty good, and Baldwin has potential. But they still have average QB's, non-leadership types. It's possible they can challenge for the Div title.

OAK? Palmer can be very good at times, but he's a non-leadership type also like Cassel. If they can gel considering all the changes, they might challenge for the Div title.

SD, well they've been fading slowly, and I don't think they got all that much better in the offseason. This rookie Melvin Ingram might make a difference, they've needed that outside passrush guy for a while. They let Tolbert go, and he had 22 TD's, 2000 Yscm the past two years. McClain I don't see as an upgrade. Meacham and Royal, meh. Rivers is a good QB and a leader, so they do have that. But then they also have the same coaching staff that somehow lets games slip through their fingers. Nevertheless, they'll be up there around 9 wins.

I can see the Div title coming down to the last 3-4 weeks again, because none of these AFC West teams are all that great, 10-6 will probably win the Div title. The final 4 games is this (thanks Kaylore for adding this into your analysis):

Denver:
Dec. 6 at Oakland Raiders (Thurs.) 8:20 p.m.
Dec. 16 at Baltimore Ravens 1 p.m.
Dec. 23 Cleveland Browns 4:05 p.m.
Dec. 30 Kansas City Chiefs 4:15 p.m.

SD:
Dec. 9 at Pittsburgh Steelers 1 p.m.
Dec. 16 Carolina Panthers 4:05 p.m.
Dec. 23 at New York Jets * 8:20 p.m.
Dec. 30 Oakland Raiders 4:15 p.m.

KC:
Dec. 9 at Cleveland Browns 1 p.m.
Dec. 16 at Oakland Raiders 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 23 Indianapolis Colts 1 p.m.
Dec. 30 at Denver Broncos 4:15 p.m.

OAK:
Dec. 6 Denver Broncos (Thurs.) 8:20 p.m.
Dec. 16 Kansas City Chiefs 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 23 at Carolina Panthers 1 p.m.
Dec. 30 at San Diego Chargers 4:15 p.m.

I imagine right now that all four teams will be close in season record by game 12. SD plays against the AFCW only once in the last 4 weeks, the other three play each other 2-3 times in the last 4 weeks and I figure that will decide the Div title. I doubt an AFCW team gets a wildcard, it will be all about the Div title.

[Kaylore]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that Run DMC being injured the previous seasons doesn't mean he isn't durable because he hasn't had to have surgery.

"Hello. I'm Darren McFadden. I strain or break something every season. But don't worry, I've never seen a surgeon so you can count on me."

[oubronco]

He could break off 200 yds in any system

[underrated29]

Originally Posted by KCStud

Aside from Peyton and Decker, the Broncos offense is average. The OL problems were hidden by switching to the option and the DL has trouble stopping the run.

I don't think DEN is the clear cut favorites simply because they have Manning.

The way to beat Manning is to play good defense and run the ball.

Last year KC was 11th in total offense, 12th in points given up and 6th in pass defense without Eric Berry. There is no reason to think KC won't have a top 10 defense, especially with Romeo (who has always been able to frustrate Manning).

I think KC will return to a top 10 rushing attack as well. Last year we were middle of the pack with MCCluster and Battle. Our new OC has been very good setting up the running game. In Cleveland he unleashed Peyton Hillis in 2010. Then last year he had a great running game with Reggie Bush and a the rookie from K-State. With 2 of the best run blockers in at OT, KC should have success running the ball.

I think KC and DEN will battle it out and the last game of the season could determine who wins the division.

Of course Cassel is the question. But if he plays like he did in 2010 (27 TD's/7INT's) KC is winning the division. We'll see how likely that is though.

The OL problems were not hidden when we switched to tebow, they were exemplified. We gave up far fewer sacks with orton than tebow, and EVERY bronco fan knows that orton took phantom sacks all the time. Making our OL numbers worse than they were. Our OL is solid aside from beadles and JD- one of both will be replaced this season.


You are right about the way to beat manning, and those two things happen to be KCs specialty right now. It will be a great game against our two teams.


I agree again, that KC has by far the best defense in the division. But, while you do get a great player in berry back you Lost an amazing player in Carr, and replaced him with routte who is terrible. That is a big downgrade. Still your D will be up there with the elite. Its that good.

You also drafted Devon Wylie who could be a great player if he had a QB...And that is where the problem lies as we all know. Cassel. The bigger problem for cassell now is he sucks when under pressure, before he used to be ok with it. Now once the heat is on he folds. Not good at all considering our pass rush and possible bolts pass rush with ingram.

The division will be close but imo we will have had a 2-3 game lead by the end of the race to make it inconsequential.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by Raider9175

Here is the facts. Dmc has missed alot of time to injury. He has had no surgeries. He has very low wear and tear on his body. (24 years old) Again sooner or later he going to play a full year and were talking league MVP.

Both Taiwan Jones(way faster than DMC) and M Goodson are the perfect fit for this stretch zone blocking system. You get these two running in space and its going to be a thing of beauty.(Raiders will be number 1 rushing team this year)


Sorry Buddy there is a very good chance doom is suspended this year, This isn't his first brush with the law. As a raider fan , I hope he isn't suspended when he plays the Raiders. This way there is no need to even throw it. Raider just overpower the undersized Dumberville at the point of attack. See First game.(Raider threw it only twenty times)


NOw Raiders oline only gave up 25 sacks in 2011. They upgraded that oline bigtime. Raiders are playing in WCO offense. That means alot of safe passes to the Rbs and FB. ( those can go a long long way) Than once you start cheating up. Raiders run by your secondary.

So C palmer due to fact the system so Qb friendly , has the oline, a so many weapons around him , and it not a stretch to assume he should have his best season ever as a pro.

Isnt it amazing us Broncos fans can see potential in Moreno but are sick of him getting injured for weeks or at least a few quarters of a game and this clown, like so many other Raider fans, see everything half full for every player or position. THis is the the reason why we see so much myopic opinions from Raider fans and why they were crowned the dumbest fans in the league. According to this guy, nothing is wrong with the Raiders! They are the beast of the west.
Reality check is TE with no experience, no running back once McFadden gets hurt and they still are suspect at defense. Add a tough schedule (like all AFC West) and you will be lucky to scrape 8 wins.....including preseason.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by Bronco Rob

The raiders were 16th in scoring in 2011? How's that considered top 10 by any stretch of the imagination? You lost your leading rusher, starting tight end and center. Darren McFragile has missed as many games in four seasons as Manning has his entire career. Starting tight ends Ausberry & Myers have 34 career receptions with zero touchdowns. Moore pulled a hamstring AGAIN in shorts and t-shirts. Heyward-Bey has more drops than touchdowns.


As far as the defense goes i'll concede the lost of Bunkley and Dawkins mostly for his intangibles but other than that significant upgrades at almost every position not mention Jack Del Rio. The raiders 29th ranked defense has only gotten worse, you lost your best corner Routt, best pass rusher in Wimbley. Signed two corners that are on the wrong side of 30 that were cut be their previous team.

Raiders were top 10 offense in yards. They moved the football from 20-20 pretty frequent. They did get bogged down in the red zone. Clearly Dmc injured, hurt that stat as they were number 1 team in redzone, till he went down. M bush was the worst runner inside the redzone(fact)

Raiders addressed their redzone problems with the addition of Juron Criner 6'3 223 who will be a big part of the offense when they get down there. DMC and Goodson pass catching ability, not to mention running ability, and the Raiders are getting td's this year.


Btw you do know points scored isn't always a reflection of a good offense. See the Jets, they had number 1 offense in redzone.; That offense was horrible moving from 20- 20, but their special teams and defense put them in position to score(not the offense) Plaxico Burress who was a non factor from 20-20 was very effective in red zone.


Heck you should know what I mean. See the broncos they were a lousy offense. When they got down in the redzone they were very good(thanks to ability of Tebow) , Just proves scoring points ndoesnh't make an offense top notch.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

Isnt it amazing us Broncos fans can see potential in Moreno but are sick of him getting injured for weeks or at least a few quarters of a game and this clown, like so many other Raider fans, see everything half full for every player or position. THis is the the reason why we see so much myopic opinions from Raider fans and why they were crowned the dumbest fans in the league. According to this guy, nothing is wrong with the Raiders! They are the beast of the west.
Reality check is TE with no experience, no running back once McFadden gets hurt and they still are suspect at defense. Add a tough schedule (like all AFC West) and you will be lucky to scrape 8 wins.....including preseason.

Yea okay outside of Bronco homers tell me one fan base that would put Moses Moreno or any other Bronco Rb in DMC class. That statement is beyond stupidity and no need to discuss anything else.

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by underrated29

The OL problems were not hidden when we switched to tebow, they were exemplified. We gave up far fewer sacks with orton than tebow, and EVERY bronco fan knows that orton took phantom sacks all the time. Making our OL numbers worse than they were. Our OL is solid aside from beadles and JD- one of both will be replaced this season.


You are right about the way to beat manning, and those two things happen to be KCs specialty right now. It will be a great game against our two teams.


I agree again, that KC has by far the best defense in the division. But, while you do get a great player in berry back you Lost an amazing player in Carr, and replaced him with routte who is terrible. That is a big downgrade. Still your D will be up there with the elite. Its that good.

You also drafted Devon Wylie who could be a great player if he had a QB...And that is where the problem lies as we all know. Cassel. The bigger problem for cassell now is he sucks when under pressure, before he used to be ok with it. Now once the heat is on he folds. Not good at all considering our pass rush and possible bolts pass rush with ingram.

The division will be close but imo we will have had a 2-3 game lead by the end of the race to make it inconsequential.

The Broncos oline is utter garbage. Even Clady who looked like he was going to be a star. Hasn't looked that good recently. You have the worst oline in the Afc West.
I know Peyton manning has a way to make average lines look decent, but he's going to have his work cut out with that oline. Ive seen more talent on my towns high school football team oline, than the Broncos.


Btw spin ity any way you like 42 sacks when you threw it 429 times speaks for itself. (yea go ahead and try and throw it more).

Lets do the math P manning get hits that many times 42, and you might as well start warming up hanie now.

[ppablo]

raiders fans > dumb

[Raider9175]

Originally Posted by underrated29

Wow, this raiders guy is a freaking dumb****.

Next- how I rank the division

Denver
Cheifs/Raiders
Raiders/Cheifs (these two teams are so close imo)
Bolts




Now, raiders guy- ask yourself these few questions:

1.- Would any team in the NFL take any raider WR over Demaryius Thomas?

2.- Would any team in the NFL take the next best wr over Erick Decker? (Be honest here, even though we know you wont)

3.- Do you really believe your offense will be better than the -Pats, Saints, Eagles, giants, steelers, lions, packers, texans, falcons, cowboys? That is 10 teams right there and do not even think about saying you have ANYONE on your roster better than any player those teams have except for DMC (who only plays 6 games a year)- SO HOW WILL YOU HAVE A TOP 5 OFFENSE!?

4.- Do you realize that all your WRs numbers are equivalent to two of our WRs numbers and we had the worst passing QB in the league throwing to them?

5.- How long have you had an extra 21st chromosome?

6.- Which team has the best set of rush LBs?

7.- which team has the best set of S?

8.- Which team has the best pass rushers?

9.- Which team has the best set of Cbs?

10.- Which team ranked last in the division for defense?

11.- Did you notice that I included each team in the AFCW on questions 6-10? (Did you know that it goes: bolts, cheifs, broncos, broncos, raiders)

Funny how the raiders make that list only as a team with the worst defense? And all you added was wheeler?




HEY- didnt your MLB try and execute someone? Your only good player? Is he going to be playing this year? He is gone, all your Cbs are gone, you best LB is gone. What exactly do the raiders have that is scary or good or even improved?

1. Stats speak for themselve . http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?...as&playerFour= That two of three Raiders top wr had better stats than Thomas. Jacoby Ford is way more talented than him too but just missed alot of time in 2011 due to injury.

2 See Decker did he put up numbers better than ewven the rookie D moore. Nope

3. Raiders offense I expect to be in the top five. They have one of the most explosive offenses in the game. Eventually this offense will be number 1. See how many 25 and younger on the whole offense.

4. You do realize Raiders lost their starting QB early in season and they traded for a Qb that literally came off the couch after week 7. That without knowing the offense, The players on it and numerous injuries to that wr corp. Not to meention their Rb that was having a MVP type season. So get a clue.
I just did Broncos and raiders
6 where talking offense . So your point is what again.

7 . Again defense but Raiders safeties are better than BHroncos and it not even close. Tyvon Branch- Profootball focus labeled the best cover safety in the game and M Huff was forced to play more cb than safety in 2011 as Raiders had alot of injuries at Cb.

8 again defense- Yes Bronco have better pass rushers. Now do you have a better pass rush.(more players getting to the Qb) I say Raiders have more scaks than Bronco in 2012.

9. Again tough to say. Raiders and Broncos are going to ask two different things from their Cb's. Bronco have the big name player Champ bailey but evenb 40 years old start to slip at some point.

10 Raiders defense was atrocious last year why they made the coaching change. That was last year

11. Hey genius why didn't you put that after question five that explanation. Not going back

[Flex Gunmetal]

This is hilarious.