General Baseball Thread 2012

[TheChamp24]

I'm going to call it now, in 3-4 years, Mike Trout and Bryce Harper will be gods in baseball. Will absolute be monster hitters, it won't even be fair.
Think Albert Pujols like for them. *shudders*
I just wonder how much power Trout will have.

[OrangeSe7en]

Originally Posted by WolfpackGuy

I can see them going after Garza or (gulp) Dempster.

Cubs are looking to dump contracts, and I'm sure the Yankees can scrounge up a couple "prospects" in exchange for a summer rental.

On the contrary. The Yankees have next to nothing to offer. Its more likely that the Yankees will be used as leverage to try to get more out of teams like Texas or Detroit.

[OrangeSe7en]

Originally Posted by TheChamp24

Yeah, Kile's curve was pretty flat in Coors and he also had a bad walk rate most of his career, which is a recipe for disaster at Coors.
Jennings was decent as he was able to throw a sinker to get a lot of ground balls, but he also had a high walk rate and allowed a lot of baserunners. The trade of him to Houston was a bit of a controversial move, but the players involved helped the Rockies make the World Series in 2007.
Rockies need speed and power. I love Helton, he is a great guy, was a great player, but he just doesn't bring enough to the table anymore. He is signed through 2013 I believe, and that will probably be the end for him. The Rockies need some pop from their 1B. I don't know what the brass plans to do, but 1B and 3B need some good production from those positions.

Yeah, Helton is kind of similar to Mark Grace in that regard. It's great that he can hit for average but in a park like Wrigley or Coors, the slugging % needs to be a lot higher. I know Helton is a fan favorite but if you're a 1B that plays half of his games at Coors Field, you need to be a guy who can drive the ball a lot more than Helton has in recent years.

And once again, you make other solid takes. Coors Field's outfield is so big that they could almost justify having 3 CFs in the OF, kind of like the 85 Cardinals had in Coleman, McGee, and Landrum. And this brings home the other point you're making about how its paramount to have a bigger power hitter/run producer at 1B. If you're going to have speed in the OF, you really need to have power from the infield, especially from 1B and 3B.

What the Rockies should do in the draft is take the best player available in the 1st but then load up on arms in the after that.

[WolfpackGuy]

Originally Posted by OrangeSe7en

On the contrary. The Yankees have next to nothing to offer. Its more likely that the Yankees will be used as leverage to try to get more out of teams like Texas or Detroit.

Playerwise, I agree with you.

You typically get the better prospects in return if the player you're getting isn't going into FA like Garza and Dempster are. Those two aren't in the situation that Jimenez, Fister, and Pence were when they were moved last season.

You can never underestimate the Yankees' willingness to take on salary though.

Steinbrenner the Younger has mandated they cut payroll, so we'll see what Cashman does in the next few weeks.

[OrangeSe7en]

Originally Posted by WolfpackGuy

Playerwise, I agree with you.

You typically get the better prospects in return if the player you're getting isn't going into FA like Garza and Dempster are. Those two aren't in the situation that Jimenez, Fister, and Pence were when they were moved last season.

You can never underestimate the Yankees' willingness to take on salary though.

Steinbrenner the Younger has mandated they cut payroll, so we'll see what Cashman does in the next few weeks.

Its not likely the Yankees will be the only team in the mix. The Tigers, Rangers, Dodgers, and Blue Jays all have more to offer. There are other teams that also have more to offer. Thats where the Cubs are now. They're in the business of flipping established talent for a volume of young talent. The Cubs have a decent portfolio of young position players but they need some arms.

Soriano is the guy they want to unload salary with. Garza and Dempster, not as much...especially Garza.

[TheChamp24]

Originally Posted by OrangeSe7en

Yeah, Helton is kind of similar to Mark Grace in that regard. It's great that he can hit for average but in a park like Wrigley or Coors, the slugging % needs to be a lot higher. I know Helton is a fan favorite but if you're a 1B that plays half of his games at Coors Field, you need to be a guy who can drive the ball a lot more than Helton has in recent years.

And once again, you make other solid takes. Coors Field's outfield is so big that they could almost justify having 3 CFs in the OF, kind of like the 85 Cardinals had in Coleman, McGee, and Landrum. And this brings home the other point you're making about how its paramount to have a bigger power hitter/run producer at 1B. If you're going to have speed in the OF, you really need to have power from the infield, especially from 1B and 3B.

What the Rockies should do in the draft is take the best player available in the 1st but then load up on arms in the after that.

I love CarGo, and it seems like Fowler is FINALLY putting it all together. I like those two guys, and then add another speedster. Although with Cuddyer, he isn't bad, but I'd like to have more speed.
Helton just isn't hitting for average anymore either though. He's hitting .243. I absolutely love Helton, and he was a beast, and can play some good defense, but his bat just isn't the same. He'll be around starting though until his contract expires. To my knowledge, the Rockies don't have a 1B prospect either.
Now 3B, the Rockies have Arenado sitting in the wings and Chris Nelson is having a fantastic June, but I don't think he's much more than a platoon/backup guy.
I'd imagine another month, and we'll see Arenado in the big leagues.

[WolfpackGuy]

Originally Posted by OrangeSe7en

Its not likely the Yankees will be the only team in the mix. The Tigers, Rangers, Dodgers, and Blue Jays all have more to offer. There are other teams that also have more to offer. Thats where the Cubs are now. They're in the business of flipping established talent for a volume of young talent. The Cubs have a decent portfolio of young position players but they need some arms.

Soriano is the guy they want to unload salary with. Garza and Dempster, not as much...especially Garza.

Oh, definitely.

If it comes down to strictly major league/major league ready players, the Yankees don't have as much ammo.

Outside of Montero being involved in the disastrous Pineda deal, they've been somewhat unwilling to move their better prospects recently probably because of the overall team age. That philosophy has cost them Cliff Lee and Johan Santana.

I wouldn't touch Soriano with a 10 foot pole though.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Go Giants

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by socalorado

Guaranteed that Trout makes the AS roster. .344 average after going 4 for 6 and leads the AL in stolen bases. THere was a post back aways about someone wanting Harper over Trout. Trouts numbers are higher except in HRs. Dude is 20 and his cup of tea last season at 19 was just a small taste of what he brings to the Angels. Remember, he came up this season when Vernon Wells went down. One month into the season he is putting these numbers up. He is also technically a rookie. Besides Ichiro, Fred Lynn in 1975 was the last MVP and ROY in the same year. This could happen. Angels have been on fire since his call up. I don't think it is coincidental. I have wrote him in the 25 times I was allowed (also did Harper). Last hours to vote so get it in.

[broncocalijohn]

PS: Glad I picked up his rookie card for $3 a few weeks back. That thing is going to go the way of Pujols, Jeter, etc. if this continues.

That warning track is rubber in Baltimore but for Trout to still go diagonal on that catch and go for it as you see all the big pussies bailing away when they are 10 feet away is awesome.

He is playing a ton of centerfield for Bourjos as he is now the 4th outfielder but when Wells gets back, this is a great problem to have. He is making a ton of money but he isn't hitting like Trumbomb, Hunter or Trout. He has been a tweener of Hunter and Gary Matthews Steroids jr.

[TheChamp24]

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

Guaranteed that Trout makes the AS roster. .344 average after going 4 for 6 and leads the AL in stolen bases. THere was a post back aways about someone wanting Harper over Trout. Trouts numbers are higher except in HRs. Dude is 20 and his cup of tea last season at 19 was just a small taste of what he brings to the Angels. Remember, he came up this season when Vernon Wells went down. One month into the season he is putting these numbers up. He is also technically a rookie. Besides Ichiro, Fred Lynn in 1975 was the last MVP and ROY in the same year. This could happen. Angels have been on fire since his call up. I don't think it is coincidental. I have wrote him in the 25 times I was allowed (also did Harper). Last hours to vote so get it in.

Well, Harper is a year younger than Trout and posting incredible numbers for his age. Both are.
I don't see Trout continuing to hit .340+, but who knows. I just don't see him being able to compete with Hamilton for the MVP as long as Hamilton stays healthy.
I said it before on this page, Trout and Harper will be killer hitters in baseball in 3-4 years. Absolutely killer. I think Harper will be a bigger power threat, but Trout has more speed. It will be fun to watch them for years crush pitchers.

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

Guaranteed that Trout makes the AS roster. .344 average after going 4 for 6 and leads the AL in stolen bases. THere was a post back aways about someone wanting Harper over Trout. Trouts numbers are higher except in HRs. Dude is 20 and his cup of tea last season at 19 was just a small taste of what he brings to the Angels. Remember, he came up this season when Vernon Wells went down. One month into the season he is putting these numbers up. He is also technically a rookie. Besides Ichiro, Fred Lynn in 1975 was the last MVP and ROY in the same year. This could happen. Angels have been on fire since his call up. I don't think it is coincidental. I have wrote him in the 25 times I was allowed (also did Harper). Last hours to vote so get it in.

Agreed. Trout is bionic.
Harper isnt half the overall player Trout is.
Voted.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by TheChamp24

I'm going to call it now, in 3-4 years, Mike Trout and Bryce Harper will be gods in baseball. Will absolute be monster hitters, it won't even be fair.
Think Albert Pujols like for them. *shudders*
I just wonder how much power Trout will have.

Hope this is better than your other prediction last year (I posted it on this thread but you seemed to be completely silenced on it).

Originally Posted by TheChamp24

Trumbo didn't deserve the #2 voting in the ROY. Hosmer in less games had a better line than him.
He doesn't hit for average.
He doesn't get on base, a horrible .291 OBP. Thats dreadful.
He strikes out a ton.
I mean, if you think Trumbo is going to become a perennial player and count on him to be in the lineup for years to come, think again. I'd almost guarantee he's at best a backup in 2 years.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by TheChamp24

Well, Harper is a year younger than Trout and posting incredible numbers for his age. Both are.
I don't see Trout continuing to hit .340+, but who knows. I just don't see him being able to compete with Hamilton for the MVP as long as Hamilton stays healthy.
I said it before on this page, Trout and Harper will be killer hitters in baseball in 3-4 years. Absolutely killer. I think Harper will be a bigger power threat, but Trout has more speed. It will be fun to watch them for years crush pitchers.

Trout can be what Ichiro was doing for infield hits. Trout doesn't slap it but he was clocked running from home to first in 3.53 seconds! We finally have our leadoff hitter since Figgins left us. We don't need a power hitter per se but if he is anything like Rickey Henderson as a lead off (or Jeter), we have something really special. Trumbo, Trout and Hunter in the outfield leaves very little room for Bourjos and Wells. DH? Morales is starting to really heat up there. Wells making $21 million this and next year puts the Angels in a tough spot but they are also getting Trout at a rookie salary so it all works out for the time being.

[OrangeSe7en]

Originally Posted by socalorado

Agreed. Trout is bionic.
Harper isnt half the overall player Trout is.
Voted.

That's insane. He's 19 and is hitting .281. He also plays with speed and has an incredible throwing arm in the OF. Given his age, Harper has 5 tool written all over him.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by OrangeSe7en

That's insane. He's 19 and is hitting .281. He also plays with speed and has an incredible throwing arm in the OF. Given his age, Harper has 5 tool written all over him.

Well, Bryce is 20 and Mike is 20.

Trout has a little more than 100 professional at-bats more than Harper, and 600 more at-bats (roughly) in the minors. What is hurting Harper now is the fact that most of his minor league batting experience came from the A level where his numbers weren't even all that great (good, but not awesome), and he was boosted up to AA/AAA and only had 200 at bats between the two classes combined.

He went from cake pitching in A where he did well and was average in AA/AAA against MLB quality talent. He is surpassing expectations already in the majors because his splits are better than last seasons' minor league play. He is undoubtedly going to be a great player, but as of right now, he isn't even close to Trout.

Trout's successes in the MLB can not only be attributed to his skill-set, but the fact that he had good progression in the minors at a steady rate and has been able to adjust well to MLB caliber pitching because he has seen it going through the ranks. Harper didn't have that shot, as he was called up extremely quick. Trout's first short stint in the MLB wasn't pretty, but sending him down to PCL helped him immensely.

They both get fanned too often (Harper needs better discipline and can learn to work a count better) -- but that will likely get better in time.

Both great players and the future of MLB!

[broncosteven]

I really enjoyed watching the Chicago WS beat the Yankees at home on a 9th inning 3 run shot.

Great game, reminds me why I bother watching baseball.

[✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Well, Bryce is 20 and Mike is 20.

What is hurting Harper now is the fact that most of his minor league batting experience came from the A level where his numbers weren't even all that great (good, but not awesome), and he was boosted up to AA/AAA and only had 200 at bats between the two classes combined.

He went from cake pitching in A where he did well and was average in AA/AAA against MLB quality talent. He is surpassing expectations already in the majors because his splits are better than last seasons' minor league play. He is undoubtedly going to be a great player, but as of right now, he isn't even close to Trout.

Harper is hurting? That's a bunch of nonsense.

Who cares if Harper struggled in Double-A and Triple-A when his .850 OPS in the majors only trails Mel Ott (.921) and Tony Conigliaro (.883) among all-time 19-year-olds? He's arguably the best 19-year-old since 1964.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...s_19_bat.shtml

Harper also ranks ahead of 19-year-olds such as Mickey Mantle, Ty Cobb and Ken Griffey Jr.

Yes, this is his age 19 season because doesn't turn 20 until October.

BTW, Griffey, Jr. went to straight to the majors in 1989 as a 19-year-old without playing in Double-A and Triple-A. That jump didn't hurt him. When you're an elite, once-in-a-generation talent taken with the first overall pick, the rules of player development that apply to everybody else don't apply to you.

Harper is a special player who is blazing his own trail. Even ARod who came up at 18 didn't hit as a 19-year-old.

[broncocalijohn]

Joshua,

So what you are saying is that Harper is Jewish?

[✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡]

Originally Posted by TheChamp24

I just wonder how much power Trout will have.

I blame Trout's 6-foot-1 frame on why his power is questioned. It looks like a strength to me. Maybe not on the same scale as his baserunning or defense, but it's a plus. I envision 30 home run seasons in his future.

[houghtam]

I just can't get too excited about rookies or young players in baseball. It's such a "yeah, but how long can you keep it up" type sport. Hell, I just started considering purchasing a Verlander jersey last year. I'll be interested if either Harper and Trout are hitting over .300 in September. I'll be impressed if they're any good 3 or 4 years from now. For every great rookie season you can find more than half that none of us have ever heard of.

[broncocalijohn]

^ I hear ya but these guys were picked #1 by their clubs and Trout was Minor League MVP so there is some merit to their awesomeness. I just hope they don't turn into someone like Sam Horn. Remember him? Ask Elsid about that one. I wsated some good $ buying up some of his rookie cards.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

^ I hear ya but these guys were picked #1 by their clubs and Trout was Minor League MVP so there is some merit to their awesomeness. I just hope they don't turn into someone like Sam Horn. Remember him? Ask Elsid about that one. I wsated some good $ buying up some of his rookie cards.

Ugh. Yeah that guy was great in Strat-o-matic baseball! Unfortunately their metrics only polled the previous season so having him on your team was like having Jesus on your team. Same with Brady Anderson.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by houghtam

Ugh. Yeah that guy was great in Strat-o-matic baseball! Unfortunately their metrics only polled the previous season so having him on your team was like having Jesus on your team. Same with Brady Anderson.

Well, I think it is safe to say that Brady Anderson (right here from UCI) and the convict Lenny Dyskstra took some form of steroids during their contract year to poke some massive homeruns out of the ballpark. Frauds!

[SouthStndJunkie]

Andrew McCutchen is having a monster year for the Pirates.

.344 average, 16 doubles, 4 triples, 15 HRs, 51 RBIs, and 14 stolen bases.

Dude would probably have another 20 RBIs if anyone else batting above him in the order set the table for him like they should be doing.

Pittsburgh was smart to get him signed to a long term deal this year.

Hogan has to be jizzing in his pants.

A.J. Burnett is having a nice comeback year with the Pirates....getting out of the Bronx is exactly what he needed.

Some players can't handle the pressure of pitching there.