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Old 06-18-2012, 09:30 AM   #1
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Oakland Raiders: Comparing Carson Palmer to Other AFC West QBs




With just 18 days remaining until training camp starts, news of the Oakland Raiders has been scarce. No no player signings, re-signing, cuts or acquisitions whatsoever. It is indeed, the "slow time" in Oakland.

In this dead time, Raider Nation Times has been doing a series of articles called, Know Your Enemy. David Wilson is covering each team in the AFC West as a whole and Jerry Rump has been doing a position by position breakdown of how each team matches up with the Raiders at each spot on the field.

Now, it's time to discuss the most important position on the field, the quarterback.

Much has been made of AFC West quarterbacks recently. If you believe everything the mainstream sports media tells you, Peyton Manning has turned the Broncos into a Super Bowl contender, Philip Rivers is going to magically turn around his dismal performance in 2011 to lead the Chargers to the promised land and Matt Cassel is being considered one of the most under-rated quarterbacks in the league.

Forgotten in all of this is Raiders' signal-caller, Carson Palmer. No one is talking about him, covering him, interviewing him or giving him any chance to lead the Raiders to the playoffs—or even respectability.

Whatever! Since when has Raider Nation given a hoot about what the mainstream media has to say?

Should Raider Nation expect Carson Palmer to get to the Pro Bowl? Maybe, maybe not. Should Raider Nation expect Palmer to throw for 5,000 yards, 50 touchdowns and zero interceptions? Absolutely not. But, can Raider Nation expect Palmer to perform as well as, or even better than the other quarterbacks in the AFC West?

Absolutely!

The Raiders have more offensive talent than every team in the division, more defensive talent than Denver and San Diego, and the Raiders have the most hungry coaches, the hungriest players and the most motivated general manager in the division by a wide margin. Don't think for one second that head coach Dennis Allen or general manager Reggie McKenzie are going to settle for mediocrity from this 2012 Raiders' squad.

The team and coaches have been put on notice that the "Scholarships" are gone and that every player will have to fight for his job. If any of them think McKenzie and Allen are bluffing with this statement, go ask Stanford Routt and Kamerion Wimbley if the "New Era" of Raiders' management are serious or not!



http://raidernationtimes.com/article.php?id=9003

Last edited by Bronco Rob; 07-12-2012 at 09:40 AM..
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:33 AM   #2
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How could Tamba Hali be ahead of Von Miller?
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:43 AM   #3
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How could Tamba Hali be ahead of Von Miller?

When the writer of refers to Von Miller as a "gem" might be your first clue.



Just Sayin'
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:44 AM   #4
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How could Tamba Hali be ahead of Von Miller?
I don't know, wierd


I don't know, wierd


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Old 06-18-2012, 09:46 AM   #5
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:49 AM   #6
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DJ at #4? How bad are the linebackers then for the AFC West?
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:58 AM   #7
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:00 AM   #8
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How could Tamba Hali be ahead of Von Miller?
It's Burger Bill, that's how.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:01 AM   #9
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Every time I think about Williamson being paid for this stuff I get dizzy and have to lie down.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:06 AM   #10
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to play devils advocate,Hali has 27 sacks the last 2 seasons 53.5 for his career so far. Von will be better than Hali by far but miller has only played 1 yr.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:15 AM   #11
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Nobody needs to play devil's advocate. There's nothing too ridiculous about Hali being #1, and most of the people here would be shocked and outraged if he were on our team and ranked lower.

I'm not sure he's really a 'true' linebacker like Miller can probably be, but that's where he plays.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:39 AM   #12
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The real question is where on this list would Elvis Dumervil be? 1 or 2?
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
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How could Tamba Hali be ahead of Von Miller?
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:59 AM   #14
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Looking for the Bronco LB corp to have a great year. These are the guys we are rolling with, so get behind them. GO BRONCOS!!
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Old 06-18-2012, 12:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broncocalijohn View Post
DJ at #4? How bad are the linebackers then for the AFC West?
that was my thinking as well. person who made the rankings probably just looked at stats, where DJ has a lot of tackles and thought, "wow this guy is good" but he didn't see that most of those tackles were the result of running ball carriers down after they have already broke off some nice yardage.
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:38 PM   #16
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The real question is where on this list would Elvis Dumervil be? 1 or 2?

He's listed as a DE..
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:51 PM   #17
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He's listed as a DE..
Right, but he's saying in terms of Tamba. Since Elvis and Tamba play the same spot regardless of 3 pt vs 2 pt stance
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:01 PM   #18
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Tamba has more sacks than any player in the AFC the last 2 years (led AFC in 2010), was very solid against the run last year, and was voted to be the better LB by the players.

Von is going to be the best very soon (maybe this year), but last year as a rookie he got hurt and struggled in the later part of the season and had his own struggles while Tamba has had years to become a productive player.

It's not a bad ranking at all for the preseason. Of course it could very well change next year.
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:47 AM   #19
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Bill's lists aren't usually as bad as people freak out about but this one is pretty bad.
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCStud View Post
Tamba has more sacks than any player in the AFC the last 2 years (led AFC in 2010), was very solid against the run last year, and was voted to be the better LB by the players.

Von is going to be the best very soon (maybe this year), but last year as a rookie he got hurt and struggled in the later part of the season and had his own struggles while Tamba has had years to become a productive player.

It's not a bad ranking at all for the preseason. Of course it could very well change next year.
Really hate agreeing with a KC fan but I have to say he's right on this one. Van had a stellar rookie year and shows immense potential and upside but if you're ranking the here and now you have to plump for the proven player.

There are plenty of other things to hate about the article though. Does seem like a classic Burger Bill "phoned in from the couch" piece....

Thing is, I find it hard to take Hali seriously due to Bob repeatedly promising he's going to absolutley destroy us, only for that to not actually happen on Sunday....
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:50 AM   #21
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Tamba has more sacks than any player in the AFC the last 2 years (led AFC in 2010), was very solid against the run last year, and was voted to be the better LB by the players.
Only because Doom missed 2010 as well as two games in 2011. If you add Doom's '09 and '11 seasons he has as many sacks as Hali, but with two fewer games played.

Quote:
Von is going to be the best very soon (maybe this year), but last year as a rookie he got hurt and struggled in the later part of the season and had his own struggles while Tamba has had years to become a productive player.
And Hali still isn't nearly as good in coverage or overall run defense as Miller was as a rookie. So if all that matters from a LB is pass rush then Hali has the edge or the time being. But if a LB is expected to be a versatile player then Miller is already a better player.

Hali and Doom are comparable players who just play in different fronts. Miller is an all around more disruptive player than Doom on the same squad.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:02 AM   #22
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Only because Doom missed 2010 as well as two games in 2011. If you add Doom's '09 and '11 seasons he has as many sacks as Hali, but with two fewer games played.


And Hali still isn't nearly as good in coverage or overall run defense as Miller was as a rookie. So if all that matters from a LB is pass rush then Hali has the edge or the time being. But if a LB is expected to be a versatile player then Miller is already a better player.

Hali and Doom are comparable players who just play in different fronts. Miller is an all around more disruptive player than Doom on the same squad.
I've been involved in several "discussions" on the merits of each team's pass rushers on ChiefsPlanet, and I very much enjoy posting this:

Sacks/game:

White: 0.85
Miller: 0.77
DT: 0.75
Dumervil: 0.70
Strahan: 0.66
Peppers: 0.65
Umenyiora: 0.61
Suggs: 0.59
Hali: 0.56
Houston: 0.34

Obviously the Miller and Houston numbers are subject to change by a lot since they have only played one season.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:42 AM   #23
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Miller is about as disruptive as Hali. The difference is Hali is one dimensional (he's basically just a defensive end playing linebacker in 3-4) and he's also as good as he'll ever be (that's not the worst thing). Miller made a lot of mistakes, got injured and was a second all-pro and the DROTY. Mind you this was without any kind of offseason, which hurt the rookies most, and Dennis Allen being a poor developer of young talent (usually tearing players down when they make mistakes, opting to scream and bench them as opposed to teach and encourage.)

I don't think Hali is better than Miller right now. Miller has more range and his game is more complete. What makes the selection stupid is everyone of these lists he's opted to put rookies who were drafted this year and haven't played at all ahead of veterans in the name of "potential" and then when Miller has played a year, clearly showed signs of greatness, he's below Hali for the same reasons.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:56 AM   #24
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The AFCW linebackers are pretty weak if Drunken DJ is at 4.
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:33 AM   #25
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Awesome analysis by burger bill once again. Seriously I am in the wrong profession, if "this is a special player" counts as reporting that gets you paid $$$$$$$$$.
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