The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > Off Topics Forum
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-05-2012, 07:17 AM   #26
Jay3
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

By the way, it should be said -- if you had said home defense was your primary purpose, there is nothing better than a pump action 12 gauge shotgun. You would win most encounters with this weapon.

However, since you said "hobby" and "concealed carry" and all that, 357 revolver is the best choice.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 07:25 AM   #27
JLesSPE
Pro Bowler
 
JLesSPE's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Republic, MO
Posts: 550
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay3 View Post
By the way, it should be said -- if you had said home defense was your primary purpose, there is nothing better than a pump action 12 gauge shotgun. You would win most encounters with this weapon.

However, since you said "hobby" and "concealed carry" and all that, 357 revolver is the best choice.
I've carried revolvers and semi-autos both. I've come to prefer the semi-autos. I like the round count and while I realize revolvers essentially can't jam I've never had an issue with my semi-autos. My Glock 34 has had over 10k rounds put through it by me personally and I bought it from a friend who put at least that many through it. Not 1 reliability issue. Obviously you don't carry a G34 due to its size, but that's the best reliability example I have. I currently carry a S&W SD40 and have only put like 1500 rounds through it but its the same story. Not one issue. I do clean them regularly and change springs from time to time. Just like everything else in life it comes down to preference. I use different carry guns depending on the weather and what I'm wearing...so I'm not 100% partial to anything in particular.
JLesSPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 07:45 AM   #28
jhat01
Ring of Famer
 
jhat01's Avatar
 
Knuckle Dragging Homer

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: West River
Posts: 1,864

Adopt-a-Bronco:
ManRam
Default

For everyday carry, I go with a compact stainless II by Kimber. It's a .45..to each their own, but I've always been partial to a big heavy round! And carrying in condition one doesn't make me squeamish like it may make others.

For plinking, even 9mm is getting expensive. My advice would be to get one of the .22 conversion kits for a 1911, or one of the bigger .22 autos that mimic their full size counterparts like the m&p or the mosquito by sig. I reload, so my cost is much much lower but I don't save money because I shoot at least twice as much! Haha

I like 12 gauge for home defense..I use the mossberg 500 special purpose. No matter what, it will go boom when you need it to. We also have a couple ARs around the house for defense.

If and when you do get one. Get some good instruction, and shoot as much as you possibly can..
jhat01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 07:52 AM   #29
rmsanger
Elway > PFM
 
rmsanger's Avatar
 
Another one bites the dust!

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,225

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Would like a Xdm 45 when I save up the funds.

rmsanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 07:56 AM   #30
tnedator
Ring of Famer
 
tnedator's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,835

Adopt-a-Bronco:
He be gone..
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
Also way too soft on punch (I know this from experience, after shooting a F'er in the shoulder with a 9mm that he shrugged off like it was nothing. I started carrying my 44 Mag S&W, no more problems (Desert Storm I). I'd go with the Glock 10mm (40 cal, and what I'm using now), or a 45 semi (still hard to beat, but rounds cost more). If you hit 'em, you'd like to know they are out of the fight ( ie shoulder shot = no arm). You cannot be sure of that with a nine. The 10mm is a great compromise between the muzzel velocity of a 9mm, and the punch of a .45.
If it was Desert Storm, I'm assuming you were military (also from your avatar) vs. a civilian contractor and therefore you were using FMJ with the 9mm (thanks for your service to the country, by the way). If using quality, newly designed (last decade or so) self defense/police duty (really no difference) ammo, the actual results from any of the common duty pistol calibers is the same -- both in gel tests and OIS (officer involved shooting) reports.

There has been a great deal of science that has gone into ammo development in recent years, and in large part the difference in calibers is marginal. That's why a lot of departments/agencies around the country that had moved to .45s or .40s in the '90s and '00s, are now choosing to move back to 9mms, because the effectiveness is similar, the ammo is cheaper, their officers should better qualifying scores with the 9mm (which means they will shoot better when using them for real), and the gun failure rates are lower.

The best place on the net for one stop shopping to learn about the terminal ballistics of modern ammo: http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91

Last edited by tnedator; 06-05-2012 at 08:01 AM..
tnedator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 08:00 AM   #31
tnedator
Ring of Famer
 
tnedator's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,835

Adopt-a-Bronco:
He be gone..
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sisterhellfyre View Post
I went to a shooting range on Sunday with a bunch of friends and had a great time. Over the day I fired several guns: a .22 bolt-action rifle, a semi-auto .22 pistol, .357 magnum revolver, .38 revolver, and a .30 cal M1 carbine of WW2 vintage. That last was a real treat cuz I've been a history buff since grade school. Unfortunately, I didn't have opportunity to try the .45 and 9mm pistols.

The rifles were fun, and I put down decent shot groups (esp considering it was my first time shooting since high school!), but I really liked the handguns more than the long guns. I'm thinking about picking up shooting as a hobby, but I really don't know where to begin. Just because it's the off-season, I thought I'd ask you guys what you have, what you like, and what you'd recommend for a beginner.

* I'm not likely to buy before next winter (Jan-Feb '13), so I have plenty of time for research.

* Shooting will primarily be a hobby, but defense is also at the back of my mind.

* My projected budget will be between $600 and $800 (not including other usefuls like a lockbox).

* I will be taking firearms safety classes, so that's a given.

* I'm left-handed and left-eyed, in case that makes a difference.

* Concealed carry permit is a definite "maybe." I haven't decided yet whether to seek it.

I'd love to hear your suggestions. Thanks in advance!
If you have to choose one gun, and it's going to be both range and concealed carry, then my suggestion would be a Glock 9mm (G17 or G19) or S&W M&P 9mm (full size or compact).

However, the best thing to do is to find a range in your area that rents guns and then try some. Some people love Glocks (probably the most popular gun overall civilian and law enforcement), while others find they don't shoot them accurately. Many that don't feel they shoot Glocks well, shoot the M&P well, which is the second most popular gun among police (based on a recent survey).

Regardless of what gun you choose, get the class(es) you talked about. Safe gun handling and storage (especially if you every have kids/teens/irresponsible people) in your house is THE most important thing. You don't want to live with the aftermath of an accidental shooting, not to mention the legal issues.
tnedator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 08:18 AM   #32
sisterhellfyre
Some days it's not worth
 
sisterhellfyre's Avatar
 
fighting the clowns under my bed.

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,547
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay3 View Post
By the way, it should be said -- if you had said home defense was your primary purpose, there is nothing better than a pump action 12 gauge shotgun. You would win most encounters with this weapon.
Dutch, Jay3, and lonestar, thank you for the info! I didn't do a real good job on saying just what I want the guns for. Your answers are helping me split up the different needs of home defense, self-defense, target range, and zombie plinking. ;-)

I looked at shotguns last night, too. The one that caught my eye, thinking of home defense, was a Russian semi-auto 12-gauge, with clips for 5 or 12 shells (Saiga IZ-109). It looks like that could offer up a real "fear of God" moment.

I'm leaning toward going thru the process to get the concealed carry permit, based on what you guys said about the convenience for transport. Would it be fair to think of it like the motorcycle endorsement on my license? I can use it, but I don't necessarily have to use it every day.

For handguns, from what I saw yesterday, I think the 45 would be too big for me. I liked the 22 semi-auto pistol, and I was comfortable with the 357 magnum. I went through two drums with it, once with 38s and once with 357s, and I got a kick out of the "Old West" feel of thumbing the hammer back for each round. I didn't have to, I know, but it felt right. I'd like to get a feel for 9mm and 10mm before deciding between them.

I have a couple close friends who were in Desert Storm, too, and I'll be talking with them about it too. Both of them have concealed carry permits, and they know their stuff.

Last edited by sisterhellfyre; 06-05-2012 at 08:22 AM..
sisterhellfyre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 08:21 AM   #33
Jay3
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLesSPE View Post
I've carried revolvers and semi-autos both. I've come to prefer the semi-autos.
I think both should be part of any collection, and should be the first two pistols purchased. But I think the revolver is the best one to start with, and the best one to start a friend or beginner with if you go together to the range. Less things to think about at first.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 08:22 AM   #34
El Guapo
aka mav_7. who?
 
El Guapo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,031
Default

If you're going to carry do not carry a .22, I would opt for a .357 or .40. Both are VERY similar in size the .40 just packing a bit of a larger round.
El Guapo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 08:24 AM   #35
Jay3
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sisterhellfyre View Post
I looked at shotguns last night, too. The one that caught my eye, thinking of home defense, was a Russian semi-auto 12-gauge, with clips for 5 or 12 shells (Saiga IZ-109). It looks like that could offer up a real "fear of God" moment.
The semi-auto won't have the same "fear of God" moment you get with pumping the slide on a pump action.

Most people go with short, open choke pump action for home defense -- Winchester 1300 and Mossberg 500 are the two most common models.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 08:44 AM   #36
glennst
Rookie
 
glennst's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 66
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sisterhellfyre View Post
I'd like to get a feel for 9mm and 10mm before deciding between them.
To clarify, .40 and 10MM, while equal measurements, are 2 very different bullets. The 10MM is a magnum semi-auto round and is not that common. The .40 is more comparable with a 9MM and is probably what you are looking for.

.40 Glock
http://www.glock.com/english/glock22.htm
10MM Glock
http://www.glock.com/english/glock20.htm
glennst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 08:49 AM   #37
rideco
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Do you self a favor and check out FN's. FNS is the "striker" model with no hammer and the FNX has a hammer. They are very good guns and are fully ambidextrous since you are left handed. FN makes machine guns for the military btw.

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/fi...asp?gid=FNG001
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 08:50 AM   #38
tnedator
Ring of Famer
 
tnedator's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,835

Adopt-a-Bronco:
He be gone..
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennst View Post
To clarify, .40 and 10MM, while equal measurements, are 2 very different bullets. The 10MM is a magnum semi-auto round and is not that common. The .40 is more comparable with a 9MM and is probably what you are looking for.

.40 Glock
http://www.glock.com/english/glock22.htm
10MM Glock
http://www.glock.com/english/glock20.htm
Correct, at this point 10mm is more of a novelty gun. If you are a gun enthusiast, having one can be fun, but a 10mm isn't a good first gun for someone, especially if you are looking for a concealed carry gun.
tnedator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 08:51 AM   #39
tnedator
Ring of Famer
 
tnedator's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,835

Adopt-a-Bronco:
He be gone..
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rideco View Post
Do you self a favor and check out FN's. FNS is the "striker" model with no hammer and the FNX has a hammer. They are very good guns and are fully ambidextrous since you are left handed. FN makes machine guns for the military btw.

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/fi...asp?gid=FNG001
FN USA is also the primary (possibly only) maker of the M4, which is our current military battle carbine.
tnedator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 09:00 AM   #40
glennst
Rookie
 
glennst's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 66
Default

When looking at poly-framed semiautos or "Airweight" revolvers, remember that a light gun is easy to carry, but harder to shoot. The reduced weight of the gun increases the felt recoil and makes followup shots less accurate.

If you are looking for a non-carry pistol, I would recommend a non-poly full size pistol like a Beretta 92FS, Sig P226, or a full size revolver. I prefer 9MM because of the reduced recoil, reduced muzzle flash, and higher ammo capacity, but there are arguments to be made for other rounds as well (i.e. .40, .357Sig, .45).

For carry, you should definitely try before you buy if you can. The S&W "Airweight" revolvers are particularly annoying to shoot.
glennst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 09:00 AM   #41
HILife
Ring of Famer
 
HILife's Avatar
 
Mrs. Alicia Hilife

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: DC - NOVA - DMV - VA - Take your pick
Posts: 4,592
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
Here we go, and boy did you open a can of worms on this one without even knowing it! You need to narrow things down a bit. Do you want something to go to the range and shoot (ie. targets with)? Do you want a home defense weapon? Do you want to be able to carry/conceal? Honestly, those are such different requirements...you need to think about more than one piece. For home defense, shotgun. No question, no debate. Anyone who argues with this has no clue. 12 guage would be good, 10 is better. I use a Benelli Supernova Tactical :http://www.benelliusa.com/shotguns/b...a-tactical.php with pistol grip. 18" barrel is easy to maneuver around in close quarters, but they are now making a 14" that would be even better. 3.5 inch shells in a deer slug will go through a fridge, or anything else the idiot hides behind. No where to run, no where to hide. Load it buck shot, deer slug, buck shot, deer slug all the way down, and get the magazine extension that will give you one in the pipe, seven in the mag. Buck shot sends them for cover, deer slug finishes the job. Home defense, done. Can be had for around 4 bills, and can change barrels to longer versions for skeet, birdhunting, rifled hunting, etc. Read a nice review here: http://www.shootingillustrated.com/i...lli-supernova/. Shotguns are the bomb for home defense. Not only that, name me a sound that will make your insides turn to water faster than the sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round if you are doing no good. Unmistakable. The Corps is using the Benelli M4 semiauto for urban fighting, and they love it. Good enough for me. My wife has a 1966 Ithica 16 gauge Featherlight (awesome trap gun) on her side of the bed that was my Mother's and we have an attack plan that will keep me from being hit by her line of fire. Woe be it to the poor bastard who chooses our place for a hit.
Wow, he takes his guns seriously.
HILife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 09:29 AM   #42
PaintballCLE
INFLITRATE ENEMY LINES
 
PaintballCLE's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cleveland, Oh
Posts: 3,201
Default

go with the 9mm or .40

9mm is way cheaper ammo, .40 is more powerful and becoming more common as most police forces are switching to this.

$600 Range Go with a Glock........ they aren't pretty........ but they work and rarely have jamming problems.

$800 Range Go with a Sig

$400 Range Go with a Ruger (basically a glock copy) I have them, never had a problem. And right now you can get a 9 mm (or .380) AND a .22 for $600

Stay away from kel-tec, and taurus

If you like going to the range a lot......... get a .22 to have (range only not for defense) as the ammo is CHEAP..........$15/550 Where 9mm will be about $12/50 and .40 $16/50
PaintballCLE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 09:29 AM   #43
Dutch
The Flying Dutchman
 
Dutch's Avatar
 
Leatherneck

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,628

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Rubin Carter
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HILife View Post
Wow, he takes his guns seriously.
Sure do....by the looks of the replies to the OP, I'm not alone. A great range of replies and advice in this thread that should get you where you want to be and into a weapon or 2 that will meet your needs. Didn't see a bad recommendation out there. I'd stay away from the semiauto shotguns simply because there really is no need for the added expense. You can get a good 12 gauge for under $400 (hell, your buddies might be able to help get you into one for half that). Then you can address the handgun. I'd put the bulk of the money there and go for quality.

Last edited by Dutch; 06-05-2012 at 09:37 AM..
Dutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 09:34 AM   #44
Garcia Bronco
Hokie since 1993
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 47,067

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Tom Jackson
Default

First off...from a TCO persective and protection and stopping power; you want a .40 cal. Anything less is not going to stop anything and you're just throwing lead at it. I have an M&P S&W .40 Cal and a Beretta Px4 Storm Sub. I also have a 1911 Kimber .45 Cust Covert. I would recommend trying and buying a .40 cal.

You also want to pay attention to double action and single action and or striker action. I also recommend a gun with a hammer. Which would elimate most glocks(or all), which i don't personally prefer.
Garcia Bronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 10:05 AM   #45
El Guapo
aka mav_7. who?
 
El Guapo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,031
Default

Agreed with the above. I mainly use Sigs which are double-action and single-action. It takes quite a bit of practice to nail a target consistently in the 5 ring using both modes, but once you can do that you'll be set. It's amazing the amount of jokers I see at the range thinking they're bad ass.
El Guapo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 10:23 AM   #46
Smiling Assassin27
Helmet Tester
 
Smiling Assassin27's Avatar
 
Hurry Hurry

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: In a van down by the river
Posts: 12,576

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Hemanuel Sandrs
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay3 View Post
I have many guns. I believe that the best handgun to start off the hobby with is a double action revolver, such as a Ruger GP100 or one of the large frame Smith and Wesson's. The best caliber to get is 357 magnum. The reasons are that, starting off, it's more rewarding to be about to point and shoot, and not have to think about racking the slide or fiddling with a safety, or removing a magazine, or making sure that there is not a round in the chamber after you have removed the magazine. A revolver is point and shoot -- you can practice getting really comfortable handling it, always pointing down range, never pointing it in an unsafe direction, etc.

I say this from experience -- get a full sized revolver as your first weapon, and a semi-automatic pistol as your second. You will always be able to use both anyway (a revolver makes a great weapon for the home to keep loaded in a hand safe, no magazine springs to wear out, and you don't have to decide whether to rack the slide in the dark if you ever hear something).

If you get a semi-automatic, I'd get a Sig Sauer. They are premium quality, and I like the rare de-cocking mechanism that Sig's have. You can chamber a round, de-cock, and then fire them with a double action (full trigger pull). Sig's can fire from un-cocked double action, and then each subsequent shot is single action. (Or you cock and the first shot is single action).

I'm not a fan of Glocks. Don't get that as your first.

.357 Sig, definitely.
Smiling Assassin27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 10:33 AM   #47
Butterscotch Stallion
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
Gun advice: Statistics show that it is far more likley your handgun will be used to shoot someone you know and love than any intruder that comes into your house.
Wow, now I have to buy a second one! Thanks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 10:35 AM   #48
Butterscotch Stallion
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

I decided the gun you need within ten seconds.
It's the same gun I bought.

history buff? likes pistols?

1911. this is really a no-brainer.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 10:35 AM   #49
El Guapo
aka mav_7. who?
 
El Guapo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,031
Default

Car Advice: Statistics show that it is far more likley your car will be used to run over someone you know and love than any intruder that comes into your driveway.
El Guapo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 11:20 AM   #50
Beantown Bronco
Athletic Supporter
 
Beantown Bronco's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mass
Posts: 20,560

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Matt Prater
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Guapo View Post
Car Advice: Statistics show that it is far more likley your car will be used to run over someone you know and love than any intruder that comes into your driveway.
Bad analogy. A car is never purchased for the sole purpose of home protection.
Beantown Bronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:27 AM.


Denver Broncos