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Old 06-04-2012, 12:30 AM   #801
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I finished all the books, and am re-reading A Game of Thrones right now. I've discovered something in the text that leads me to question whether Jon Snow is actually Ned's son.

Speculative SPOILER: ( In the book, Ned and Robert are talking about Tywinn Lannister's treachery in taking the Red Castle, and as an off comment, it mentions that Ned had been living a lie the last 14 years -
"Treachery is a coin that the Tragaryen's knew well," Robert said. The anger was building in him again. "Lannister payed them back in kind. It was no less than they deserved. I shall not trouble my sleep over it!"

"You were not there," Ned said, bitterness in his voice. Troubled sleep was no stranger to him. He had lived his lies for fourteen years yet they still haunted him at night. "There was no honor in that conquest."
Whatever lie Eddard has been living for fourteen years, it has to do with a certain 14 year old boy (Jon Snow). What else happened 14 years ago? The death of Lyanna. I suspect that Lyanna is the true mother of Jon Snow, making him a bastard of Raegar Tygaryen, not Eddard.
)
Welcome to R + L = J
You wont have to browse Westeros.org's forums long before you understand.
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:49 AM   #802
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SPOILER: (
Have no fear, the guy gets his due... and maybe even then some
)

I know. Still hate him. Smarmy little ****.


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Old 06-04-2012, 12:50 AM   #803
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Welcome to R + L = J
You wont have to browse Westeros.org's forums long before you understand.
I should have known this is already a thing. I put that line into google, and sure enough, there are plenty of discussions going on about what it could mean.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:54 AM   #804
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I'm a little annoyed at the changes made to the sacking of Winterfell. They change the character dynamic and are probably a bit confusing to the viewers who don't understand *why* Winterfell was sacked and by whom.

In the books:

SPOILER: (

Theon conspires with Ramsay "the bastard of Bolton" Snow who is the bastard son of Lord Bolton, one of the Stark's bannermen. Ramsay's forces are the bulk of the northern force besieging Winterfell. They turn on the rest of the force Robb sent to retake Winterfell, and when they are done Theon lets open the gates of Winterfell to let them in, and Ramsay promptly turns on Theon, sacking the city in the process.

Ramsay is basically a psychopath that makes the rest of his psychopathic family look downright sane (the house banner is a "flayed man" because of the family's fondness for flaying their enemies alive).

)

The way it's done in the series, it's really unclear what happens. I'm surprised they left it so ambiguous.

Last edited by Fedaykin; 06-04-2012 at 01:57 AM..
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:12 AM   #805
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Whats worse is there are two VERY important characters missing during all of this... Where are the little frog people They play a huge role later on.
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:18 AM   #806
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I dunno about you guys but I think the way they handled Jon Snow/Half-Hand was pretty poor.
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:35 AM   #807
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I dunno about you guys but I think the way they handled Jon Snow/Half-Hand was pretty poor.
^ that. One of two of my biggest concern with the changes.

Meera and Jojen really DON'T do **** if you think about it

Tyrion's nose doesn't matter at all.

The chain was too expensive.

But making Jon look like a bumbling idiot chasing after Ygritte and getting all the rangers killed is as stupid as skipping everything important at the house of the undying
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:51 AM   #808
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Not happy with how they handled Halfhand, makes Jon look like a b****. Also hated the House of the Undying.
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:05 AM   #809
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Originally Posted by Fedaykin View Post
I'm a little annoyed at the changes made to the sacking of Winterfell. They change the character dynamic and are probably a bit confusing to the viewers who don't understand *why* Winterfell was sacked and by whom.

In the books:

SPOILER: (

Theon conspires with Ramsay "the bastard of Bolton" Snow who is the bastard son of Lord Bolton, one of the Stark's bannermen. Ramsay's forces are the bulk of the northern force besieging Winterfell. They turn on the rest of the force Robb sent to retake Winterfell, and when they are done Theon lets open the gates of Winterfell to let them in, and Ramsay promptly turns on Theon, sacking the city in the process.

Ramsay is basically a psychopath that makes the rest of his psychopathic family look downright sane (the house banner is a "flayed man" because of the family's fondness for flaying their enemies alive).

)

The way it's done in the series, it's really unclear what happens. I'm surprised they left it so ambiguous.
Yeah, I haven't read the books and I left last night's episode wondering WTF happened there. Theon was knocked out so why the hell was Winterfell sacked? Even after reading your spoiler, I still don't get it b/c it doesn't appear as though anybody at all is left when Bran leaves.

Cornfused.
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:08 AM   #810
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Yeah, I haven't read the books and I left last night's episode wondering WTF happened there. Theon was knocked out so why the hell was Winterfell sacked? Even after reading your spoiler, I still don't get it b/c it doesn't appear as though anybody at all is left when Bran leaves.

Cornfused.
I've read the books but watched it with someone who hasn't. After that happened he was asking where the 500 men outside the walls went. I tried to explain what happened in the book and ended up confusing myself. I just assume they'll have some dialogue in season 3 to explain what happened.

That being said. I laughed my ass off when they knocked him out after his speech.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:48 AM   #811
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^ that. One of two of my biggest concern with the changes.

Meera and Jojen really DON'T do **** if you think about it

Tyrion's nose doesn't matter at all.

The chain was too expensive.

But making Jon look like a bumbling idiot chasing after Ygritte and getting all the rangers killed is as stupid as skipping everything important at the house of the undying
I didn't read books but the whole time watching i was like this Snow guy pissing me off. How do you get lost that fast? How could you be that stupid? etc etc. Glad that was just a mess up by the script writing.

Then also making us wait soo long to get to the warlocks house of undying, just seemed like a joke when they take 10 minutes to resolve the whole situation and we don't see much or understand what that place was.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:50 AM   #812
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It was cool finally getting to see the dragons kill someone. Also you can see how much the love their mother! They are going to wreak some havoc on Westeros when they become a little bigger.

Last thing, the white walkers. Obviously there are 2 kinds of walkers. Up to now we had only seen the zombie type. Those ones on horses though were obviously leaders of them, and some different creature altogether. Crazy!
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:52 AM   #813
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Originally Posted by Fedaykin View Post
I'm a little annoyed at the changes made to the sacking of Winterfell. They change the character dynamic and are probably a bit confusing to the viewers who don't understand *why* Winterfell was sacked and by whom.

In the books:

SPOILER: (

Theon conspires with Ramsay "the bastard of Bolton" Snow who is the bastard son of Lord Bolton, one of the Stark's bannermen. Ramsay's forces are the bulk of the northern force besieging Winterfell. They turn on the rest of the force Robb sent to retake Winterfell, and when they are done Theon lets open the gates of Winterfell to let them in, and Ramsay promptly turns on Theon, sacking the city in the process.

Ramsay is basically a psychopath that makes the rest of his psychopathic family look downright sane (the house banner is a "flayed man" because of the family's fondness for flaying their enemies alive).

)

The way it's done in the series, it's really unclear what happens. I'm surprised they left it so ambiguous.
Probably they explain it start of season 3. If not I guess i need to read the books. I should go read books 1 and 2 right now?
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:17 AM   #814
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It was cool finally getting to see the dragons kill someone. Also you can see how much the love their mother! They are going to wreak some havoc on Westeros when they become a little bigger.

Last thing, the white walkers. Obviously there are 2 kinds of walkers. Up to now we had only seen the zombie type. Those ones on horses though were obviously leaders of them, and some different creature altogether. Crazy!
The weird looking guys with the wrinkled skin and the ice weapons are the White Walkers. They create the wights (zombies).
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:18 AM   #815
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Probably they explain it start of season 3. If not I guess i need to read the books. I should go read books 1 and 2 right now?
You can probably just pick up at book 3 and not have missed too much. Can give you cliffs via PM of what the show missed pretty easily
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:28 AM   #816
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^ that. One of two of my biggest concern with the changes.

Meera and Jojen really DON'T do **** if you think about it

Tyrion's nose doesn't matter at all.

The chain was too expensive.

But making Jon look like a bumbling idiot chasing after Ygritte and getting all the rangers killed is as stupid as skipping everything important at the house of the undying
The problem there though is that they will have to keep Bran and Rickon together rather than splitting them up like in the book. This might cause problems with whatever GRRM puts in next book
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:45 AM   #817
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The problem there though is that they will have to keep Bran and Rickon together rather than splitting them up like in the book. This might cause problems with whatever GRRM puts in next book
That's just an assumption you're making. SPOILER: ( So little happens on Brans journey precoldhands that they could cut it all out outside of the one scene with jon and the wildlings. )
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:00 AM   #818
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Probably they explain it start of season 3. If not I guess i need to read the books. I should go read books 1 and 2 right now?
You should read them all. In fact, I'll say that you won't be able to help yourself. Once you start reading the books, the show is a bit of a distraction. It offers nice texture because you can better picture the characters, but the book is far, far superior to the television program. Also, book 3 is a splendid read - especially the last 1/3 of it. The character development, plus the various plots going on during book 3 are awesome. You'll be amazed at how much you end up liking Jamie Lannister after you get into the thick of his POV chapters.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:03 AM   #819
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FYI - Meera and Jojen are in the cast list for next season.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:28 AM   #820
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Anyone mind PM or putting in spoiler text what they messed up with Snow/Half-Hand. Also any quick text of what was skipped in the House of the Undying. Just curious and get so easily spoiled going to GOT wiki pages. When I finally get time I will most sure read these books.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:33 AM   #821
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Anyone mind PM or putting in spoiler text what they messed up with Snow/Half-Hand. Also any quick text of what was skipped in the House of the Undying. Just curious and get so easily spoiled going to GOT wiki pages. When I finally get time I will most sure read these books.
[/quote]

SPOILER: (
In the books, the halfhand *orders* Jon Snow to kill him to set up some good old fashioned double agent goodness. There's a very nicely written battle where we see Jon's internal struggle to follow the order (he's being asked to kill a hero of the Night's Watch in order to get in with the wildlings), and we learn that the half-hand basically puts up a good show but could easily have bested Jon. Jon only "wins" after he gets an assist from his wolf.

In the series they just kind had him piss of Jon and he rather unceremoniously offs the half hand.

Also, I'm sad they never showed his namesake (having half his hand chopped off), but I suppose they spent their budget pretty well on the more important parts.
)

Last edited by Fedaykin; 06-04-2012 at 11:41 AM..
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:51 AM   #822
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Anyone mind PM or putting in spoiler text what they messed up with Snow/Half-Hand. Also any quick text of what was skipped in the House of the Undying. Just curious and get so easily spoiled going to GOT wiki pages. When I finally get time I will most sure read these books.
Dany's whole storyline is pretty butchered in this season.

SPOILER: (

She doesn't go directly to Qarth after crossing the Red wastes, the "13" are just a merchant guild, not the leadership, of Qarth. Her Dragons are never stolen (in the books she refuses to trade one of her dragons for the fleet she wants) and her handmaidens don't betray her. Also Xaro was a skinny, pale homosexual not a summer islander, and Dany runs around half naked most of the time (Qarth fashion was to expose one breast). In the books she goes to the House of the Undying to seek council from the warlocks.

However, the real head scratcher is that omitted the fact that she is given three prophecies: she must light three fires, for life, for death, to love; ride three mounts, to bed, to dread, to love; and know three treasons, for blood, for gold, for love. Dan't really claim there was a budget problem so I have no idea why they omitted -- probably simply because people won't remember long enough?

They also cut what happens directly after during her escape, but that's probably just moved to S3 as it (re)introduces new long term characters.
)
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:59 AM   #823
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Dany's whole storyline is pretty butchered in this season.

SPOILER: (

She doesn't go directly to Qarth after crossing the Red wastes, the "13" are just a merchant guild, not the leadership, of Qarth. Her Dragons are never stolen (in the books she refuses to trade one of her dragons for the fleet she wants) and her handmaidens don't betray her. Also Xaro was a skinny, pale homosexual not a summer islander, and Dany runs around half naked most of the time (Qarth fashion was to expose one breast). In the books she goes to the House of the Undying to seek council from the warlocks.

However, the real head scratcher is that omitted the fact that she is given three prophecies: she must light three fires, for life, for death, to love; ride three mounts, to bed, to dread, to love; and know three treasons, for blood, for gold, for love. Dan't really claim there was a budget problem so I have no idea why they omitted -- probably simply because people won't remember long enough?

They also cut what happens directly after during her escape, but that's probably just moved to S3 as it (re)introduces new long term characters.
)
^

+ the Undying themselves

+ a dozen visions from Pentos to Stannis and more, and probably most importantly Rhaegar's "He has a song. He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire." and "There must be one more; the dragon has three heads."
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:05 PM   #824
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But making Jon look like a bumbling idiot chasing after Ygritte and getting all the rangers killed is as stupid as skipping everything important at the house of the undying
Very true. Im begining to wonder how they will work in the whole Tower of Joy, R + L = J subplot. The only person alive that knows what really happened hasnt even been introduced in the books yet. I feel like we've discussed this already...
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:11 PM   #825
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Very true. Im begining to wonder how they will work in the whole Tower of Joy, R + L = J subplot. The only person alive that knows what really happened hasnt even been introduced in the books yet. I feel like we've discussed this already...
Would bet money Howland is introduced in WoW and spills the beans.
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