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Old 05-30-2012, 12:28 PM   #551
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It's honestly one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard a coach or GM say.

Most actively try to dial down the expectations placed on a rookie. John makes it sound like the Broncos will barely notice whether its Brock or Peyton Manning on the field.

Hopefully it won't matter for a few years. But it just fits into the same pattern that makes a guy think that John has insane expectations for a first-season QB. Hopefully he'll figure that out. Or else he'll make the Shanahan QB-carousel look downright homerly in comparison.
Could it be possible that John's a little "gun-shy" with what he says in the media... after experiencing a year of Tebow fans taking every statement he uttered and parsing and analyzing it minutely as a possible justification for sputtering outrage?
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:29 PM   #552
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Oh, and in relation to a conversation with Baja the other day.

I'd like to 'pologize to TGN for not sufficiently hating the last Broncos QB to win a playoff game. The only Broncos quarterback to have ever done that in his first 16 games.

I realize now that not hating the kid and wishing him injury did irreparable harm to the Denver Broncos franchise, Front Office, and ultimately the fan base at large.

In closing, please do not negrep me for the 4th time since yesterday. I die a little inside with each little jab of disapproval from the guy who takes his toys and goes home whenever the Broncos play a player he dislikes.

Sincerely,

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Old 05-30-2012, 12:29 PM   #553
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WTF does Davis being one reason why Denver finally won a SB have to do with QBs getting all the glory and all the blame? Way to take what I said way out of context.

But, it is the life of the NFL QB. Is it right? Well no. But it is how it goes.


Football is a team sport. One individual doesn't win anything on his own.
You said QBs get ALL the credit and ALL the blame. Did you not say this? Yes you did. This is simply not true. If anything coaches get the blame. Fans know it takes a team to win. That's why peace pipe said people who dont know football think that way.

Does rivers get all the blame for not winning it all these years? He's still their starter. Did Jim kelly get all the blame? Dan Marino? How about all the rest of the good QBs who couldn't win it all. Horrible QBs get the blame and rightfully so.

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Old 05-30-2012, 12:34 PM   #554
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do you believe there will be a single game in which the game plan only calls for 8 passes?
No because if McCoy called even 3 runs in a row on first down, Peyton Manning would call time out, walk straight over to Mike, grab his headset, throw it to the ground, stomp on it, and then b**** slap him in the face.

But ultimately I think you're missing the main point which is by simple definition, a game plan that can't make a receiver look good can't make the QB throwing the ball look good either.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:38 PM   #555
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No because if McCoy called even 3 runs in a row on first down, Peyton Manning would call time out, walk straight over to Mike, grab his headset, throw it to the ground, stomp on it, and then b**** slap him in the face.

But ultimately I think you're missing the main point which is by simple definition, a game plan that can't make a receiver look good can't make the QB throwing the ball look good either.
How about georgia techs offense? Its game plan can't make a reciever look good yet 3 recievers have come out of there looking good in recent years. DT knew only 3 passing routes and was a 1st rounder.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:38 PM   #556
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Could it be possible that John's a little "gun-shy" with what he says in the media... after experiencing a year of Tebow fans taking every statement he uttered and parsing and analyzing it minutely as a possible justification for sputtering outrage?
Hey, I used to be one of John's biggest defenders when I thought people were overparsing things into his words that weren't there.

Except back then it was the haters super-parsing the fact that John wanted to get rid of Tebow. I thought it was ridiculous. In the meantime I've been proven wrong.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:41 PM   #557
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How about georgia techs offense? Its game plan can't make a reciever look good yet 3 recievers have come out of there looking good in recent years. DT knew only 3 passing routes and was a 1st rounder.
Yes. Take good players out of a dip**** system and they show much more potential.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:44 PM   #558
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No because if McCoy called even 3 runs in a row on first down, Peyton Manning would call time out, walk straight over to Mike, grab his headset, throw it to the ground, stomp on it, and then b**** slap him in the face.

But ultimately I think you're missing the main point which is by simple definition, a game plan that can't make a receiver look good can't make the QB throwing the ball look good either.
No... I'm not missing the main point. A game plan that calls for very few passing attempts may not make the QB throwing the ball look good...but it also protects him from looking bad... when you're talking about a QB who isn't capable of consistently putting the football where it needs to be. I can't criticize a game plan that conceals a weakness or a liability especially concerning a QB who is so closely covered by the media.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:52 PM   #559
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No... I'm not missing the main point. A game plan that calls for very few passing attempts may not make the QB throwing the ball look good...but it also protects him from looking bad... when you're talking about a QB who isn't capable of consistently putting the football where it needs to be. I can't criticize a game plan that conceals a weakness or a liability especially concerning a QB who is so closely covered by the media.
Ahh, so where a WR would look better with more reps, a QB would look worse. Even though the performance of both are inextricably linked.

Makes sense. So long as there's a dude named Tebow involved, anyway.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:59 PM   #560
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Ahh, so where a WR would look better with more reps, a QB would look worse. Even though the performance of both are inextricably linked.

Makes sense. So long as there's a dude named Tebow involved, anyway.
It actually makes sense. By definition, a WRs stats cannot go down the more they are thrown to. Their reception and yardage can only go up (unless they are getting tackled behind the line every single time - not likely)

A QBs stats can get worse the more they throw, though. Plummer was the perfect example of this. When Shanny put the leash on and only let him throw a little, he looked better. Open it up, and the picks come calling.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:03 PM   #561
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It actually makes sense. By definition, a WRs stats cannot go down the more they are thrown to. Their reception and yardage can only go up (unless they are getting tackled behind the line every single time - not likely)

A QBs stats can get worse the more they throw, though. Plummer was the perfect example of this. When Shanny put the leash on and only let him throw a little, he looked better. Open it up, and the picks come calling.
Not in Tebowfan boner land where the Broncos were intentionally throwing the ball 10 times per game because they wanted to hold Timmy's greatness back.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:11 PM   #562
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It actually makes sense. By definition, a WRs stats cannot go down the more they are thrown to. Their reception and yardage can only go up (unless they are getting tackled behind the line every single time - not likely)

A QBs stats can get worse the more they throw, though. Plummer was the perfect example of this. When Shanny put the leash on and only let him throw a little, he looked better. Open it up, and the picks come calling.
That might mean something if someone was making a statistical argument.

This is a very simple and general truism that has nothing to do with stats.

It takes WRs reps to get into a rhythm. It takes QBs reps to get into a rhythm.

Anyone who says one is true, but not the other has an agenda.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:14 PM   #563
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Not in Tebowfan boner land where the Broncos were intentionally throwing the ball 10 times per game because they wanted to hold Timmy's greatness back.
Or, in the words of noted Teboner Steve Young, it hampered his development.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:15 PM   #564
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That might mean something if someone was making a statistical argument.

This is a very simple and general truism that has nothing to do with stats.

It takes WRs reps to get into a rhythm. It takes QBs reps to get into a rhythm.

Anyone who says one is true, but not the other has an agenda.
So did decker get into a rythem in the first 5 games? 22 catches and a huge drop off in production after. Reps always help a rythem no matter what position. But half of Tebows opportunities to get throwing reps he chose to run the ball instead.

Last edited by Drunken.Broncoholic; 05-30-2012 at 01:18 PM..
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:16 PM   #565
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Or, in the words of noted Teboner Steve Young, it hampered his development.
He wasn't all pro tebow. Out here on KNBR he said quite a bit of negative things
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:19 PM   #566
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Oh, and in relation to a conversation with Baja the other day.

I'd like to 'pologize to TGN for not sufficiently hating the last Broncos QB to win a playoff game. The only Broncos quarterback to have ever done that in his first 16 games.

I realize now that not hating the kid and wishing him injury did irreparable harm to the Denver Broncos franchise, Front Office, and ultimately the fan base at large.

In closing, please do not negrep me for the 4th time since yesterday. I die a little inside with each little jab of disapproval from the guy who takes his toys and goes home whenever the Broncos play a player he dislikes.

Sincerely,

BroncoBeavis
Nice twist Mr. Disingenuous
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:20 PM   #567
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So did decker get into a rythem in the first 5 games? 22 catches and a huge drop off in production after.
Am I supposed to argue that Decker should've had better rhythm with a guy that came in 5 weeks in, cold off the bench, vs a guy he spent his entire (short) NFL career playing and practicing with...

I guess to reduce this down, what you must be saying is

Kyle Orton > Tim Tebow

which brings us to

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Old 05-30-2012, 01:22 PM   #568
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Nice twist Mr. Disingenuous
Well, at least nobody can accuse you of being imperceptive.

Mostly it was meant for TGN though, who is my biggest fan apparently.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:22 PM   #569
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I guess to reduce this down, what you must be saying is

Kyle Orton > Tim Tebow

which brings us to

at passing the ball, yes, it's not even debatable.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:24 PM   #570
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He wasn't all pro tebow. Out here on KNBR he said quite a bit of negative things
Sure he did. There were negative things to be said. But "The Broncos Helped Timmy out by not giving him many opportunities to throw" is pure hater logic.

Young QB's need reps to learn (usually by trial and error) There's no arguing whether limiting those reps helps or hurts the young QB's growth.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:26 PM   #571
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Am I supposed to argue that Decker should've had better rhythm with a guy that came in 5 weeks in, cold off the bench, vs a guy he spent his entire (short) NFL career playing and practicing with...

I guess to reduce this down, what you must be saying is

Kyle Orton > Tim Tebow

which brings us to


Here let me fix it for you

Dog turd > Orton > Tebow
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:27 PM   #572
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Am I supposed to argue that Decker should've had better rhythm with a guy that came in 5 weeks in, cold off the bench, vs a guy he spent his entire (short) NFL career playing and practicing with...

I guess to reduce this down, what you must be saying is

Kyle Orton > Tim Tebow

which brings us to

Pretty sad then that Orton only needed 7 points eh?
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:32 PM   #573
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Elway's words alone are more homertastic than what most Camp Tebowners have ever said here.

I don't think many of us ever predicted that Tebow would come off the bench and instantly compete for championships.
! We should discount the words of the Broncos GM and former great QB and listen to words of opinions by the likes of MacGruder and Alpha Seirra? Yeah, that makes sense. BTW, I hated the 2nd round pick.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:33 PM   #574
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Here let me fix it for you

Dog turd > Orton > Tebow
Well I'm glad we distilled it down to what it is.

Can't argue with Best Chance to Win.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:34 PM   #575
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at passing the ball, yes, it's not even debatable.
Do you really feel it is fair to compare a back up QB to a punt protector?
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