tebow sucks - Page 17 - The Orange Mane

Drunken.Broncoholic · 05-25-2012, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncjmirabile

So running an offense suited to the strengths of your QB is wanting your offense to fail. I fail to understand your point.

In that first Chargers game, Tebow only attempted three passes to Lloyd. Two were incomplete and was like a 20 yarder as time was expiring.

That's a great game according to Gruder.

MacGruder · 05-25-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic

That's a great game according to Gruder.

A game that you almost win when you were in the hole by 2 touchdowns? Yeah... that's a good game on Tebow's part...

BroncoBeavis · 05-25-2012, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic

Orton was only sacked 9 times in 5 games with the same Oline and same HC. You are just flaming the boards with poo and stds.

You can't really count the last game, Each QB played a half. Neither was sacked.

2 of the other 4 games were against teams (Pack and Titans) that don't sack anyone. Literally both are bottom 5 in the league. GB was last I think.

So now you've got CIN, who did ok getting to the QB, and they got KO twice. And then you have OAK, where KO's 5 sacks are all you need to know.

Long story short, those first 4 games last year proved absolutely nothing about our pass protection. And all you need to do is watch some tape to see that there are issues to be concerned about.

ncjmirabile · 05-25-2012, 03:27 PM

Someone other than MacGruder and BroncoBeavis.

My understanding is that the offense Orton ran early in the season was McDaniels or at least a version of it.

It appeared to me they tried some of it at least initially with Tebow in the SD game, but it wasn't working and they went to more zone read type plays. Again, it appeared the same way in the Miami game.

Don't know if I have the terminology right, but the zone read aka spread option is setup by the inside and outside zone read runs. If those runs aren't going, then nothing can function especially the passing game. The o-line in this offense is more setup for run blocking than pass protection.

Also regarding that Denver had no WRs. It seemed to me in the last seven games that D. Thomas was coming on. I compared some of his stats against M. Manningham, J. Nelson, G. Jennings, and V. Jackson during the last five games and into the first two games of the playoffs if their teams made it that far and D. Thomas outperformed those guys in the stretch I mentioned.

BroncoBeavis · 05-25-2012, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncjmirabile

Don't know if I have the terminology right, but the zone read aka spread option is setup by the inside and outside zone read runs. If those runs aren't going, then nothing can function especially the passing game. The o-line in this offense is more setup for run blocking than pass protection.

using "aka" between "zone read" and "spread option" is more than a terminology difference. Nothing we did (outside of desperation last-minute drives where Tebow excelled) resembled a spread option.

Using those terms interchangeably only helps explain why you're confused.

DENVERDUI55 · 05-25-2012, 03:37 PM

It's funny that BroncoBeavis and MacGruder are only here to talk in a Teblow thread. That is the center of their existence.

BroncoBeavis · 05-25-2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55

It's funny that BroncoBeavis and MacGruder are only here to talk in a Teblow thread. That is the center of their existence.

Funny, since you were one of the first to pipe up as soon as this thread was resurrected (again) by the Teblowsers.

I'd say the haters' obsession is more disturbing than the fans'

ncjmirabile · 05-25-2012, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncjmirabile

Someone other than MacGruder and BroncoBeavis.

My understanding is that the offense Orton ran early in the season was McDaniels or at least a version of it.

It appeared to me they tried some of it at least initially with Tebow in the SD game, but it wasn't working and they went to more zone read type plays. Again, it appeared the same way in the Miami game.

Don't know if I have the terminology right, but the zone read aka spread option is setup by the inside and outside zone read runs. If those runs aren't going, then nothing can function especially the passing game. The o-line in this offense is more setup for run blocking than pass protection.

Also regarding that Denver had no WRs. It seemed to me in the last seven games that D. Thomas was coming on. I compared some of his stats against M. Manningham, J. Nelson, G. Jennings, and V. Jackson during the last five games and into the first two games of the playoffs if their teams made it that far and D. Thomas outperformed those guys in the stretch I mentioned.

Not claiming that I have a thing right but I am asking for someone who is knowledgeable to respond to help me understand. I would prefer someone other than MacGruder and BroncoBeavis as based on what they have posted I feel their opinions are slanted a bit.

My understanding is that the zone read is similar in a lot of ways to the spread option.

BroncoBeavis · 05-25-2012, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncjmirabile

Not claiming that I have a thing right but I am asking for someone who is knowledgeable to respond to help me understand. I would prefer someone other than MacGruder and BroncoBeavis as based on what they have posted I feel their opinions are slanted a bit.

My understanding is that the zone read is similar in a lot of ways to the spread option.

Yeah, you don't want any bias. So just go ahead and ask the guys that spent 2011 acting like Tebow was the worst QB ever to wear an NFL uniform

MacGruder · 05-25-2012, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncjmirabile

Also regarding that Denver had no WRs. It seemed to me in the last seven games that D. Thomas was coming on. I compared some of his stats against M. Manningham, J. Nelson, G. Jennings, and V. Jackson during the last five games and into the first two games of the playoffs if their teams made it that far and D. Thomas outperformed those guys in the stretch I mentioned.

OK.. so one receiver.. and he wasn't even that great and Tebow made him look great. The point is they moved Gaffney and Lloyd before Tebow even had a chance to prove himself. Of course the offense is screwed. The offense was screwed the previous season even with those guys.

MacGruder · 05-25-2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55

It's funny that BroncoBeavis and MacGruder are only here to talk in a Teblow thread. That is the center of their existence.

That's really not that funny... what is really funny is that you guys talk more about Tebow here than Jets boards do.. lol

Tebow is great drama.. everyone is talking about him it seems... Peyton is a guy whose glory days are behind him.. just like Elway. Some people just can't let the glory days go.. or move to the present.

Jay3 · 05-25-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncjmirabile

Not claiming that I have a thing right but I am asking for someone who is knowledgeable to respond to help me understand. I would prefer someone other than MacGruder and BroncoBeavis as based on what they have posted I feel their opinions are slanted a bit.

My understanding is that the zone read is similar in a lot of ways to the spread option.

The zone read is only one play. The Broncos were never able to to a complete install of a whole offense. They installed a few plays, added them to their other plays.

The Broncos ran many, many plays out of their regular playbook, including running plays out of pro-set (mostly for minimal yardage) and passing plays from a traditional drop back (or shotgun, just same routes).

There were never able to build an offense around the strengths -- series of plays designed to look the same, and do something different.

None of it really matters, except to say that the passing plays were the same plays for the most part.

errand · 05-25-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drek

Who would you rather have to win you one critical game late in the 2012 season, Tim Tebow or Caleb Hanie?

Our FO chose the later of those two. That is a problem, because it obviously wasn't a choice based on the ability to play football.

you realize we had 3 critical games at the end of the 2011 regular season, right? Went 0 for 3 in them......

Blueflame · 05-25-2012, 04:36 PM

"In the present".... 12 NFL teams expressed interest in acquiring Peyton Manning's services. I'm glad the Broncos won that sweepstakes.

Ack... I apologize (to those who have him on ignore) for forgetting and quoting Macgruder. Edited to correct my oversight.

MacGruder · 05-25-2012, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueflame

"In the present".... 12 NFL teams expressed interest in acquiring Peyton Manning's services. I'm glad the Broncos won that sweepstakes.

Ack... I apologize (to those who have him on ignore) for forgetting and quoting Macgruder. Edited to correct my oversight.

Tebow won his first playoff game against the Steelers D... Peyton didn't win his first playoff game until his 4th... and it was against the Broncos.

The reason peyton is so revered is the same reason he may be done.. because he is OLD.

You know what it says about all those people wanting Peyton including the Broncos? They are incredibly desperate and always take the seemingly safest course.. which is also why they are desperate.. because they have no guts.

TheElusiveKyleOrton · 05-25-2012, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

Yeah, you don't want any bias. So just go ahead and ask the guys that spent 2011 acting like Tebow was the worst QB ever to wear an NFL uniform

TheElusiveKyleOrton · 05-25-2012, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacGruder

Tebow won his first playoff game against the Steelers D... Peyton didn't win his first playoff game until his 4th... and it was against the Broncos.

The reason peyton is so revered is the same reason he may be done.. because he is OLD.

You know what it says about all those people wanting Peyton including the Broncos? They are incredibly desperate and always take the seemingly safest course.. which is also why they are desperate.. because they have no guts.

It's not because he's good that he's revered?

Strong take. Really good stuff.

sirhcyennek81 · 05-25-2012, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by errand

you realize we had 3 critical games at the end of the 2011 regular season, right? Went 0 for 3 in them......

Every game is critical when you START 1-4.

DBroncos4life · 05-25-2012, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

Every game is critical when you START 1-4.

I didn't know you could clinch the division in week 5.

TheElusiveKyleOrton · 05-25-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

Every game is critical when you START 1-4.

We finished 1-4 too.

errand · 05-25-2012, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

Every game is critical when you START 1-4.

One could argue every game is critical since we only play 16............but winning games down the stretch when division title and playoffs are on the line are generally considered "critical"

Blueflame · 05-25-2012, 05:45 PM

MacGruder, Peyton Manning is revered... and will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer... because he is one of the best QBs in the history of the NFL and he has earned the respect of fans, other players and coaches.

What's "desperate" is trashing Manning... and another NFL Hall of Fame QB (Elway)... in a failed effort to build up another QB who (to date) hasn't done enough on the field to deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as either.

DENVERDUI55 · 05-25-2012, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

Funny, since you were one of the first to pipe up as soon as this thread was resurrected (again) by the Teblowsers.

I'd say the haters' obsession is more disturbing than the fans'

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/search.php?searchid=38998 Enjoy! Your only football talk is TT. Rest is politics and other garbage. Don't hide from the truth your a TT fan not a bronco fan.

razorwire77 · 05-25-2012, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacGruder

OK.. so one receiver.. and he wasn't even that great and Tebow made him look great. The point is they moved Gaffney and Lloyd before Tebow even had a chance to prove himself. Of course the offense is screwed. The offense was screwed the previous season even with those guys.

So what's the excuse if Decker and or Thomas crush it in 2013 under Manning?

CEH · 05-26-2012, 05:35 AM

Tebow was sacked 33 times in only 271 drop backs and fumbled 13 times.
and 6 INTs and 6 lost fumbles and 46 completion %

Tebow is only going to succeed if he can throw th ball. Doug Peterson was on the other day you know the Philly QB coach. They want Micheal Vick to be more of a drop back passer and not always try to do something with his legs if the play breaks down. 14 INTS and 4 Lost fumbles in 473 attempts. Way too many turnovers from the QB position. Philly had surprise interest in Manning.

I could see the same thing with Tebow. He will not succeed unless he can throw the football, avoid fumbles and INTs. His legs will not be a major factor in his success. His arm will

I'm not sure why Denver is taking so much heat. They want a drop back passer and believe after working with Tebow for a year and rearranging the offense they want to move on.

Imagine the actual practices if Tebow is launching screen passes 5 yards over the TEs head. That effects the whole teams preparation for the week.

This is not NFL Europe where you can devote 3 months to work with the kid.

I think they were moving on from Tebow with or without Manning watching and visiting every QB available t be drafted last year

Good to see Urban Meyer following Tebow around like a little puppy. Doesn't he have a program on probation to deal with not be at the JETS camp

I can separate Tebow the QB from Tebow the man. I think Elway and alot ton of other NFL teams can as well. The general public can't thats why the lead story on Sportcenter Thurdays for 15 minutes was the typical Tebow discussions following a JETS OTA. What a circus

05-26-2012, 05:35 AM	#425
CEH Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,210	Tebow was sacked 33 times in only 271 drop backs and fumbled 13 times. and 6 INTs and 6 lost fumbles and 46 completion % Tebow is only going to succeed if he can throw th ball. Doug Peterson was on the other day you know the Philly QB coach. They want Micheal Vick to be more of a drop back passer and not always try to do something with his legs if the play breaks down. 14 INTS and 4 Lost fumbles in 473 attempts. Way too many turnovers from the QB position. Philly had surprise interest in Manning. I could see the same thing with Tebow. He will not succeed unless he can throw the football, avoid fumbles and INTs. His legs will not be a major factor in his success. His arm will I'm not sure why Denver is taking so much heat. They want a drop back passer and believe after working with Tebow for a year and rearranging the offense they want to move on. Imagine the actual practices if Tebow is launching screen passes 5 yards over the TEs head. That effects the whole teams preparation for the week. This is not NFL Europe where you can devote 3 months to work with the kid. I think they were moving on from Tebow with or without Manning watching and visiting every QB available t be drafted last year Good to see Urban Meyer following Tebow around like a little puppy. Doesn't he have a program on probation to deal with not be at the JETS camp I can separate Tebow the QB from Tebow the man. I think Elway and alot ton of other NFL teams can as well. The general public can't thats why the lead story on Sportcenter Thurdays for 15 minutes was the typical Tebow discussions following a JETS OTA. What a circus Last edited by CEH; 05-26-2012 at 05:38 AM..

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05-25-2012, 03:27 PM	#404
ncjmirabile Spiderman 3's Gwen Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Princeton, WV Posts: 338	Someone other than MacGruder and BroncoBeavis. My understanding is that the offense Orton ran early in the season was McDaniels or at least a version of it. It appeared to me they tried some of it at least initially with Tebow in the SD game, but it wasn't working and they went to more zone read type plays. Again, it appeared the same way in the Miami game. Don't know if I have the terminology right, but the zone read aka spread option is setup by the inside and outside zone read runs. If those runs aren't going, then nothing can function especially the passing game. The o-line in this offense is more setup for run blocking than pass protection. Also regarding that Denver had no WRs. It seemed to me in the last seven games that D. Thomas was coming on. I compared some of his stats against M. Manningham, J. Nelson, G. Jennings, and V. Jackson during the last five games and into the first two games of the playoffs if their teams made it that far and D. Thomas outperformed those guys in the stretch I mentioned.

05-25-2012, 03:37 PM	#406
DENVERDUI55 Drunk on Arrival! New to the Forum Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,160 Adopt-a-Bronco: Montee Ball	It's funny that BroncoBeavis and MacGruder are only here to talk in a Teblow thread. That is the center of their existence.

05-25-2012, 04:36 PM	#414
Blueflame Miss Congeniality Welcome to Peyton's Place Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: in my cups... lol Posts: 33,037 Adopt-a-Bronco: Randy Gradishar	"In the present".... 12 NFL teams expressed interest in acquiring Peyton Manning's services. I'm glad the Broncos won that sweepstakes. Ack... I apologize (to those who have him on ignore) for forgetting and quoting Macgruder. Edited to correct my oversight.

05-25-2012, 05:45 PM	#422
Blueflame Miss Congeniality Welcome to Peyton's Place Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: in my cups... lol Posts: 33,037 Adopt-a-Bronco: Randy Gradishar	MacGruder, Peyton Manning is revered... and will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer... because he is one of the best QBs in the history of the NFL and he has earned the respect of fans, other players and coaches. What's "desperate" is trashing Manning... and another NFL Hall of Fame QB (Elway)... in a failed effort to build up another QB who (to date) hasn't done enough on the field to deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as either.