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Old 05-25-2012, 08:50 AM   #301
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Sparano and Ryan are better for tebow than McCoy and Fox. One Coaching staff wants him the other doesn't. That's pretty easy to see which is the better situation for him.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:50 AM   #302
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My argument: Tim Tebow would be the best fullback in league history -- RIGHT NOW -- if he switched positions.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:51 AM   #303
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I'd disagree. I think many view him as someone with potential for greatness, just not a high likelihood of achieving that potential. He's the ultimate boom/bust prospect.

But he's a boom/bust prospect we already paid for and had already found a worthwhile niche that would make the 2012 Broncos a better team. Why sell that for pennies on the dollar if winning really is the top priority?

Also, his pricing on the open market was in no way accurate. The Broncos made it quite clear he was going to get released if no trade was consummated. They had no bargaining power to get the truly best offers from anyone.
A good and fair post. I'll only nitpick on the very last part. If someone really wanted Tebow wouldn't they have "outbid" the Jets and Jags? Wouldn't have taken much, right?

And again, from a pure, short term football perspective it's a good argument that the Broncos are better off with Tebow over Hanie as the backup. But it's just more complicated than that because of the Tebow circus, the locker room, the lack of buy in from Elway/Fox/others in the organization, and the desire to develop a pocket passer for the future in Osweiler.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:51 AM   #304
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So when they were shopping him back at the combine time, teams were already committed to other options?
What does that have to do with the value they received when they did?

They couldn't trade him until they had Manning. The fact that they thought about it earlier doesn't change the fact that you're not going to get as much from a bunch of teams who just finished signing or paying other QB's.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:51 AM   #305
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Extremely serious.

The guy has no fear as a runner. As a passer, he leaves a lot to be desired, but could still throw -- OCCASIONALLY.

You need to know what you're getting from your QB. From game to game, we did not know what we'd get with Tim at QB.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:52 AM   #306
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Sparano and Ryan are better for tebow than McCoy and Fox. One Coaching staff wants him the other doesn't. That's pretty easy to see which is the better situation for him.
This

Bottom line if you like Tebow than you should be happy for him that he is on a team that wants him not stuck in Denver as a one year place holder.

BTW it would have been easier to keep him for a year
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:55 AM   #307
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I think the Tebow debate at this point is really more about whether EF(-x) or Tebow would've been better, long term, for the Broncos.

That question has not yet been answered.
Could be. But just cause he turns out good for the jets doesn't necessarily mean he would've been good for the broncos. That's why I said Sparano and Ryan are better for him. IMO they may bend more for him in a different direction than broncos wanted to do.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:55 AM   #308
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This

Bottom line if you like Tebow than you should be happy for him that he is on a team that wants him not stuck in Denver as a one year place holder.

BTW it would have been easier to keep him for a year
What if you like the Broncos first, but think this whole thing has at least a 60/40 chance of blowing up in our faces. With maybe only a 5% chance of it ending how we want it.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:56 AM   #309
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Extremely serious.

The guy has no fear as a runner. As a passer, he leaves a lot to be desired, but could still throw -- OCCASIONALLY.

You need to know what you're getting from your QB. From game to game, we did not know what we'd get with Tim at QB.
He probably wouldn't be among the best fullbacks in the league. Off the top of my head: Vonta Leach, Marcel Reese, Le'Ron McClain.

Hell, he wouldn't be the best fullback on the Jets. That would be John Conner.

GOAT? You're nuts.

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Old 05-25-2012, 08:56 AM   #310
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In other words, we shopped Tebow at the worst possible time.
Maybe. But if you think Tebow is going to be great you go after him no matter the timing. Several teams wanted Manning and didn't get him, why not then go after Tebow? Do you think if Carolina put Newton on the block at the same time there would have been a similar lack of interest? Ya think maybe KC, Seattle, Ten, Arizona, Jacksonville, Cleveland, Phila, etc. might have gotten involved? Maybe?
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:58 AM   #311
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This

Bottom line if you like Tebow than you should be happy for him that he is on a team that wants him not stuck in Denver as a one year place holder.

BTW it would have been easier to keep him for a year
They want him FOR NOW. Give it until Oct. and the media circus he brings and I doubt the Jets will want him either.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:59 AM   #312
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Could be. But just cause he turns out good for the jets doesn't necessarily mean he would've been good for the broncos. That's why I said Sparano and Ryan are better for him. IMO they may bend more for him in a different direction than broncos wanted to do.
If Tebow turns out to be special, that would be the hollowest of consolations.

"Yeah yeah, he's turned out to be pretty good, but our front office didn't want to win THAT Way. Sure, they're rebuilding from scratch now. But at least it's on THEIR terms."
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:01 AM   #313
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What if you like the Broncos first, but think this whole thing has at least a 60/40 chance of blowing up in our faces. With maybe only a 5% chance of it ending how we want it.
I wanted to roll with Tebow unfortunately EF did not

I'm thinking too bad McD shiit the bed. Josh / Tebow had the best shot of making Tim that guy that revolutionizes the QB position.

With Fox/Elway not so much.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:02 AM   #314
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If Tebow turns out to be special, that would be the hollowest of consolations.

"Yeah yeah, he's turned out to be pretty good, but our front office didn't want to win THAT Way. Sure, they're rebuilding from scratch now. But at least it's on THEIR terms."
Well you know the percentages I give on that.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:03 AM   #315
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I'm interested to see how Sanchez does. Sure he's lookin good in one day in May, but come September October will likely be a different Sanchez. The dirty one.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:06 AM   #316
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I'm interested to see how Sanchez does. Sure he's lookin good in one day in May, but come September October will likely be a different Sanchez. The dirty one.
Just can't believe there's this kind of scrutiny already.

"Look, the guy who's never run this play in his life doesn't look as sharp as the guy who's been running the system for 3 years!"

Sounds familiar, actually.

Who else has to deal with that?
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:08 AM   #317
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I'm interested to see how Sanchez does. Sure he's lookin good in one day in May, but come September October will likely be a different Sanchez. The dirty one.
I think he'll play much like he has in the past... He'll do OK, and the Jets will win games (mostly on account of their defense). But it won't matter once he throws multiple picks in one game... The Tebow madness will infect MetLife Stadium like AIDS.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:12 AM   #318
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A good and fair post. I'll only nitpick on the very last part. If someone really wanted Tebow wouldn't they have "outbid" the Jets and Jags? Wouldn't have taken much, right?
You assume this was an open and ongoing bid. It instead seems quite clear that the Broncos called around and jumped on the best first round offer they got.

Given how Jacksonville's owner was pining for Tebow do you really think he couldn't have been talked into more than just a 4th rounder? Trading Tebow was effectively treated like a blind auction where all the bidders knew that the asset would go up for public auction with a much lower asking pricing should no one put forth any kind of blind bid.

Marketed at the right time blind bids can pay off wonderfully. But the right time is not when other teams have already answered many of their QB questions and when it is public knowledge that you aren't keeping the asset no matter what.

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And again, from a pure, short term football perspective it's a good argument that the Broncos are better off with Tebow over Hanie as the backup. But it's just more complicated than that because of the Tebow circus, the locker room, the lack of buy in from Elway/Fox/others in the organization, and the desire to develop a pocket passer for the future in Osweiler.
Most of the team still speaks of Tebow in good terms, and I'd bet that many of the handful of detractors would be just fine with Tim Tebow - #2 QB. The "circus" aspect doesn't impact the Broncos ability to win football games and is therefore irrelevant to true Bronco football fans.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:47 AM   #319
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You assume this was an open and ongoing bid. It instead seems quite clear that the Broncos called around and jumped on the best first round offer they got.

Given how Jacksonville's owner was pining for Tebow do you really think he couldn't have been talked into more than just a 4th rounder? Trading Tebow was effectively treated like a blind auction where all the bidders knew that the asset would go up for public auction with a much lower asking pricing should no one put forth any kind of blind bid.

Marketed at the right time blind bids can pay off wonderfully. But the right time is not when other teams have already answered many of their QB questions and when it is public knowledge that you aren't keeping the asset no matter what.

That made no sense to me. They got as much as they could for Tebow (extra few bucks Jax offered aside). If his value was higher someone would have gave more for him. He was a commodity that was evaluated by 31 other teams and the price was set by their evaluation.

I also think you are wrong on the circus aspect that Tebow brings to teams. You keep dismissing it as irrelevant but obviously it is not. It probably scared away the other 29 teams from considering Teebs. If he was just some guy who had the body of work that he has we would have got alot more for him.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:48 AM   #320
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Point being that by the time Tebow was put on the block, almost all other teams with needs had committed to other options.

In other words, we shopped Tebow at the worst possible time.
Yeah, ok. So you're saying that if the Saints put Brees on the block today because they can't get a deal done, there wouldn't be that much interest because teams have committed to other options? Bull****. He's a ****ing QB, he plays the most important position on the field. If teams thought highly of Tim, they would have been beating down the door to acquire him. This isn't some disgruntled dime-a-dozen position player, it's a QB. As it was, there was virtually no interest in him from around the league. It's nice you have an excuse for it, but no one wanted him and the team that traded for him is already putting him out there in different roles than QB.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:54 AM   #321
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You assume this was an open and ongoing bid. It instead seems quite clear that the Broncos called around and jumped on the best first round offer they got.

Given how Jacksonville's owner was pining for Tebow do you really think he couldn't have been talked into more than just a 4th rounder? Trading Tebow was effectively treated like a blind auction where all the bidders knew that the asset would go up for public auction with a much lower asking pricing should no one put forth any kind of blind bid.

Marketed at the right time blind bids can pay off wonderfully. But the right time is not when other teams have already answered many of their QB questions and when it is public knowledge that you aren't keeping the asset no matter what.



Most of the team still speaks of Tebow in good terms, and I'd bet that many of the handful of detractors would be just fine with Tim Tebow - #2 QB. The "circus" aspect doesn't impact the Broncos ability to win football games and is therefore irrelevant to true Bronco football fans.
Now this is just pure bull shiit. There is no way you can know that.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:58 AM   #322
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Yeah, ok. So you're saying that if the Saints put Brees on the block today because they can't get a deal done, there wouldn't be that much interest because teams have committed to other options? Bull****. He's a ****ing QB, he plays the most important position on the field. If teams thought highly of Tim, they would have been beating down the door to acquire him. This isn't some disgruntled dime-a-dozen position player, it's a QB. As it was, there was virtually no interest in him from around the league. It's nice you have an excuse for it, but no one wanted him and the team that traded for him is already putting him out there in different roles than QB.
The fact that you'd even draw a comparison to Brees is silly. But besides that I guess in your world the Cards were idiots for telling Manning they had to know that day. They should've just thrown away 8 million in cap space or whatever it was and still tried to sign Manning.
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:03 AM   #323
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The fact that you'd even draw a comparison to Brees is silly. But besides that I guess in your world the Cards were idiots for telling Manning they had to know that day. They should've just thrown away 8 million in cap space or whatever it was and still tried to sign Manning.
You're right. It is a silly comparison.

Brees is a QB. Tebow is not.
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:17 AM   #324
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Read and repeat number 3 to yourself over and over again. Quietly.
I never liked Tim Tebow.
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:25 AM   #325
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Brian Murphy got an ear full...tweeted a slap about Tebow and felt the wrath...did a pussified 180 degree turn....Sanchez may want to shut his agent up...
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